Prius The Magic Car (The Toyota Hybrid's Dirty Secret Has Been Outed Alert)

Rush Limbaugh.com ^ | 06/12/2007 | Rush Limbaugh

[eraser2005]

Depends on the solar tech you’re talking about...

Standard silicon cells? Too inefficient.

Hybrid solar lighting? Heated water? You bet those are good for the environment...

[LZ_Bayonet]

I think the fact that General Motors advertises on Rush’s show has a lot to do with the line that a Hummer will last 3 times as long as a Toyota.

But GM has a hybrid Vue and is already introducing (for later this year) GM's Yukon/Tahoe Two-Mode Hybrid. And, GM's Press Release* seems to indicate the Two-Mode will likely be appearing on more of GM's more powerful trucks and SUV's (300+ hp, and they tow). - Rush has mentioned visiting GM HQ, I would think he would be aware of this.

*"The two-mode system also leverages a four-speed automatic transmission and electronic controls in an integrated,powerful and compact system that can be used with gas and diesel engines, front- and rear-wheel-drive configurations and cars, trucks and SUVs."
http://www.gmc.com/yukonhybrid/index.jsp

[Oberon]

Rush should be embarrassed to be spreading garbage like this.

He's an entertainer, not a journalist. I think of him about the same as I think of Bob & Tom, or the John Boy and Billy Show...not to be taken seriously.

[herMANroberts]

I hadn't heard about the environmental issues before.

As far as cost, I would rather give my money to a Japanese car company than an oil company.

Toyota had announced last year that they where going for 100 MPH in 2009. Even if they reach 65 or 70, I like that car.

I believe, based upon increased demand, gas will be over $4.50 per gallon then.

[eraser2005]

The batteries in Ford Escape Hybrids being used as taxis are running strong. The first batch sent to NYC are ALL past 175,000 miles without problems or loss in fuel economy.

And Idaho National Labs has run hybrids to 160,000 miles to test battery efficiency at end-of-life, finding that they generally lost a little fuel economy (1-2 mpg), with the prius actually improving in fuel economy when comparing 160k with the A/C off vs new with the A/C off...

[LZ_Bayonet]

Additional on #62 - More on big vehicle hybrids; I just found this from GM. :

"The two-mode hybrid ... is also scheduled to come out in 2008 on the Cadillac Escalade as well as the Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra crewcab pickup trucks. Using this system on full-size SUVs and pickups is part of GM’s strategy to apply advanced technologies on high-volume, higher fuel-consuming vehicle segments first."

http://www.gm.com/company/gmability/adv_tech/300_hybrids/fact_suvs_fullsize.html

[poinq]

In 1977 we had a Diesel Rabbit. It got 60 miles to the gallon on the highway. 48 in the city. And it didn't have to be plugged in. How is it that after 30 years we are worse off.

[-YYZ-]

My ‘96 Nissan Sentra, now owned by a guy I work with, has in excess of 200,000 miles on it and still runs just fine. One of the rear quarter panels/wheel arch is starting to rust out, but otherwise it works fine and still passes the emissions test. 1.6L engine with a 5-speed manual transmission.

[cyberaxe]

I’m wondering how many different engines and transmissions that 300K Hummer will have had in it by the time it’s ready for the crusher.

.....my 2003 H2 has @ 98000 miles on it now.....

.....only work done to it besides oil & lube was to replace a worn wheel baring (prob my fault cause I added bigger tires for better offload traction).....

.....every thing else is as good as new.....

.....it has the exact same engine as most of my work trucks.....

.....I trade them in for new ones around 2500000 miles cause the work bodies are worn out (construction workers, what can I expect!?).....

.....I reasonably expect to get about 250k to 300k miles out of it before I have to part with it before it starts to need major repairs.....

.....hybrids are probably a great choice for people that can benefit from their limited capabilities.....

.....but what ticks me off is the people that think I should be able to get by with one .....

.....there is no other straight from the factory car that offers me the ability to do what I do every day other than my H2.....

[slowhandluke]

I think the fact that General Motors advertises on Rush’s show has a lot to do with the line that a Hummer will last 3 times as long as a Toyota. Totally unbelievable!

It wasn't HummerVsToyota but HummerVsToyotaPrius. The issue is battery life, not Toyota engineering. How long does the battery in your cell phone or laptop work before it starts to loose the ability to recharge? Mine got flakey after a couple of years. The issue of battery life, and estimates of 100K have been stated lots of times since the start of production for the hybrids. It's still an open question of whether or not they will exceed 100K miles. But 'Totally unbelievable', it is not.

[B Knotts]

In 1977 we had a Diesel Rabbit. It got 60 miles to the gallon on the highway. 48 in the city. And it didn't have to be plugged in. How is it that after 30 years we are worse off.

Exactly right.

I had one of the first-generation small diesels, too, and got 50 mpg.

Here we are in the 21st century, and we can't even buy cars like that, and are offered instead an over-engineered joke of a car that is designed for urban settings and weighs more than our old cars.

[eraser2005]

It’s not really an open question if they’ll exceed 100k miles.

The first batch of hybrid Ford Escape taxis in NYC have all exceeded 175k without a problem.

Idaho National labs tested hybrids to 160-180k and found that yes, battery capacity had decreased, but fuel economy was hardly touched.

The key is that hybrids typically run with a far more sophisticated battery management system than you’ll find in any laptop or cell phone. You wouldn’t put up with your laptop shutting off after five minutes in order to maximize battery life, but hybrids do get these benefits without the driver really noticing. Most of us fully charge our laptop or cell phone and then drain the battery almost completely. That really harms the battery life.

[HKMk23]

I’m wondering how many different engines and transmissions that 300K Hummer will have had in it by the time it’s ready for the crusher.

If it's not abused, it'll likely go to its grave with the same powertrain it had when it rolled off the assembly line. The transmission will likely need to be rebuilt at about 150K miles or so, and there may well be one major engine repair along the way, but it's an entirely credible assertion that a Hummer -- H1, H2, or H3 -- is capable of a 300K service life. I won't buy one 'cuz I think they're ridiculous, but -- hey -- diff'rent strokes, eh?

It’s pretty ludicrous to think that a GM product will last 3 times as long as a Toyota.

Two issues there:
One is that Toyota figures the service life of the Prius' batteries into their calculation for the service life of the car. Regular internal combustion only vehicles don't have that mitigating factor. Obviously, if the Prius owner wants to undertake the expense of replacing the battery set -- and I've heard it's something like a $5,000 job between parts and labor -- then, yeah, the car will keep right on going. You've got to wonder, though, how many people are going to put $5,000 into a car that's five years old, has 100K miles on it, and has a street value of, say, $7,000.

The other is that the study is only repeating the manufacturer's asserted service life figures. You and I can play armchair QB with those numbers, but the study takes them at face value, figuring that the calculations behind them involve numerous factors on which the manufacturers are the de facto experts.

My '97 Lumina LS is doing well at over 210K miles, but that may be because it was built in Canada. Aside from usual maintenance items (belts, hoses, brake pads, etc) I've replaced intake manifold gaskets on the engine [~$400], and had the tranny rebuilt [~$3100].

I had a '72 Ford F-250 that was well on it's way to 300K when its life was cut short in a roll-over crash. I walked away without so much as a bump, by the grace of God Almighty. We'd long-blocked that one 'cuz the original owner had abused the motor; we popped a valve cover and it was totally encrusted in gritty, black goo, like the oil had never been changed. Dropped in a fresh 360FT "Wedge", rebuilt the C-6 once, and it ran like a Swiss watch. I doubt I'll ever get old enough that I don't REALLY miss that truck.

I owned a '91 Saturn sedan that went over 200K before I sold it. I doubt it would have made it to 300K without an engine rebuild; it was in need of a rebuilt cylinder head when I sold it, but, to be fair, '91 was, what, the SECOND production year for Saturn??

At the day's end, a great deal of vehicle longevity bears upon the actions of the vehicle owner; REGULAR oil changes being surprisingly significant. I drive my cars pretty hard, and that increases stress and wear, but that just makes it more important to keep up with the regular maintenance. Beyond that, I take everything in stride, fix things that break, and keep right on rollin'.

[cyberaxe]

transmission will likely need to be rebuilt at about 150K miles or so

.....since about 2001, the 2500 series trannies by GM have gotten much better.....

.....we have found that if you wait til a little over 100k to get them serviced (fluid & filters), that they will last well into the mid 200k range.....

.....haven't gotten to that point yet on our 3500's with the new Allison's yet, but so far, those are the king of transmissions in my book.....

[Jet Jaguar]

” I bet that gets good gas mileage, if you can find the leaded gas.”

I do drive it weekly, at least. Good gas mileage, ha. It’s a 400 ci V8 Ford LTD. It’s a tank!

[NCLaw441]

I have an ‘05 Prius, averaging about 49 mpg overall. It has 87,800 miles on it since November ‘04. It shows not sign of wear, to be speak of. I have had no problems with it. Replaced the tires around 50K, I think. It is a fun car, I just hate that I am mistaken for a conservationist in it. I just tell people I like gadgets and that I am cheap. I have made up any price differential because I put so many miles on a car.

Nothing against a Hummer, but I don’t think I’d want to put 300K miles on ANY car.

[VOA]

And I thought the GM EV-1 was the only enviro-car that would prove
the theory of spontaneous combustion!

Sorry about your loss. And I hope you got a good insurance settlement!

By the way, have you called any local media (TV, newspapers) to report
the amazing performance of your husband’s Pious, er Prius?
It would be interesting to see if any of your local MSM would touch
that story.

AND, you might call the Toyota dealer that sold you that “hot car”.
And mention that if you don’t get a free replacement, you are calling
the local and state media.

[Eagle74]

My Chevy AVEO gets 39mpg and I only paid $8,200 for it brand new w/ 5yr 60,000 on the drive train.

[cyberaxe]

Nothing against a Hummer, but I don’t think I’d want to put 300K miles on ANY car.

.....ha, ha, I'm just the opposite.....

.....I spend so much time in my car, that by the time I've racked up over a couple hundred thousand miles.....

.....I've just got used to all it's idiosyncrasy's (and I really hate moving all the junk that I accumulate from one car to another lol).....

[ChadGore]

RUSH: No, no, no. No, no, no! Wait, wait. Arianna Huffing-and-puffing-ton.

CALLER: Yeah, Huffing-and-puffing-ton, and Barack Obama, rather than trade their vehicles in, they should take them out to the wrecking yard and have them crushed so that they can't harm our environment anymore.