Posted on 06/08/2007 10:35:59 AM PDT by Colofornian
WASHINGTON - It's Mormon lore, a story passed along by some old-timers about the importance of their faith and their country.
In the latter days, the story goes, the U.S. Constitution will hang by a thread and a Mormon will ride in on a metaphorical white horse to save it. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints says it does not accept the legend - commonly referred to as the "White Horse Prophecy" - as doctrine.
The issue, however, has been raised on those occasions when Mormons have sought the Oval Office: George Romney was asked about it during his bid in 1968, Sen. Orrin Hatch discussed it when he ran in 2000, and now Mitt Romney.
"It is being raised," says Phil Barlow, a professor of Mormon history and culture at Utah State University. "I've heard it a bit lately."
Romney says he doesn't believe in the supposed prophecy, nor did his father when he ran.
"I haven't heard my name associated with it or anything of that nature," Mitt Romney told The Salt Lake Tribune during an interview earlier this year. "That's not official church doctrine. There are a lot of things that are speculation and discussion by church members and even church leaders that aren't official church doctrine. I don't put that at the heart of my religious belief."
The disputed prophecy was recorded in a diary entry of a Mormon who had heard the tale from two men who were with Joseph Smith in Nauvoo, Ill. when he supposedly declared the prophecy.
"You will see the Constitution of the United States almost destroyed," the diary entry quotes Smith as saying. "It will hang like a thread as fine as a silk fiber."
Not only will the Mormons save the Constitution, under the prediction, but the prophecy goes further, insinuating that Mormons will control the government.
"Power will be given to the White Horse to rebuke the nations afar off, and you obey it, for the laws go forth from Zion," the prophecy says.
The LDS Church denounces the premonition, which was recorded 10 years after Smith's death. A church spokesman pointed to a quote from the faith's sixth president, Joseph F. Smith, who called the prophecy "ridiculous."
"It is simply false; that is all there is to it," the church prophet was quoted saying.
Joseph Smith, who Mormons believe found ancient gold plates and transcribed them into the Book of Mormon, ran for president in 1844, a year after he supposedly told of the White Horse Prophecy. Smith was murdered by a mob shortly thereafter.
So far, it hasn't been overtly discussed in reference to Romney's bid, but he told The Tribune previously that it was raised in the 1968 presidential run of his father, George Romney.
"It came up in the race, but he didn't believe in it," the younger Romney said in 1999.
In fact, George Romney said there are different interpretations of what Smith and Brigham Young, another Mormon prophet, were saying, according to a 1967 edition of Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought:
"I have always felt that they meant that sometime the question of whether we are going to proceed on the basis of the Constitution would arise and at this point government leaders who were Mormons would be involved in answering that question," George Romney was quoted as saying.
In the 2000 presidential race, the prophecy again made news during Hatch's failed bid for the White House. The Utah Republican and Mormon commented on the Constitution hanging by a thread during a radio interview, fanning thoughts of whether he was referring to the prophecy. Hatch says he was not referencing the premonition.
Mitt Romney has faced a barrage of questions about his religion from the news media but few in public from voters. One man in New Hampshire last week told Romney he wouldn't vote for him because Romney's a Mormon. But the guy added that he was a liberal and voting for Hillary Clinton.
On the trail, Romney talks generally about his belief in God but does not engage in doctrinal debate over details of his faith. He declines often to go into the specific tenets of the Mormon religion, saying that he is not a spokesperson for his church.
Ann Marie Curling, a Mormon in Kentucky who backs Romney, knows of the prophecy but puts no stock in it.
"It's definitely not playing into why I support him," says Curling, who runs a pro-Romney blog.
She says the few who believe in the prophecy are in the "extreme" fringes of the faith. "I don't see it being the reason everyday LDS persons are supporting him."
While the LDS Church does not accept the White Horse Prophecy as doctrine, several former leaders of the faith have spoken of the threat to the Constitution at various times, according to research by George Cobabe, who studied the prophecy's origins for the Foundation for Apologetic Information & Research. The group's mission is to defend the church and correct misunderstandings.
He says the concept of religious people saving the Constitution in the last days is a common theme for many faiths, but adds the White Horse Prophecy is bunk.
"I don't think the White Horse Prophecy is fair to bring up at all," he says. "It's been rejected by every church leader that has talked about it. It has nothing to do with anything."
Barlow, the Utah State University professor, says probably 10 percent to 20 percent of Mormons in America have heard of the prophecy by name but that many more have likely heard bits and pieces of it.
"It's dubious whether this originated with Joseph Smith but it seems to have a life of its own," Barlow says. "While most Mormons may not have heard of it, there are some themes that have some currency."
The main theme is the apocalyptic end of the world and the phrase that the Constitution - which Mormons believe was divinely inspired - will "hang by a thread."
Still, Barlow says it's doubtful the so-called prophecy will make a big splash during the campaign.
"It's too esoteric than bigger things like polygamy that will get brought up," he says, referring to the practice of marrying multiple wives that the church officially denounced in 1890.
Obviously you wouldn't have so many LDS authorities using the same exact phrase of "hang by a thread" in regard to the constitution if they didn't feel Joseph Smith was at the direct source.
The Dems have a prophecy, too..........”Here comes our king, riding on a donkey..........”
Romney is a gun grabber and that’s all I need to know when I step into the voting booth. I could care less about his religion.
Interesting story.
On a lighter note, I guess we’d better keep an eye out for any Romney agents who are going around looking to purchase a white horse.
Th Mahdi is also suposed to ride a white horse. Just sayin! Not insinuating anything.
Joseph Smith
US GOVERNMENT WILL BE DESTROYED: May 18, 1843. HC 5:394, also Mill Star 22:455. Joseph Smith prophesies “by virtue of the holy priesthood... and in the name of the Lord” that if Congress or the United States will not redress the wrongs which the Mormons suffered in Missouri, and grant them protection, “the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted,” they shall be “broken up as a government” and there will be nothing left of them. (A similar prophecy was made Dec 16, 1843. See Quinn p 641, Chron JS 189)
FULFILLMENT: The United States rejected the Mormons’ petitions; their wrongs were not redressed; they were not protected from their enemies. The United States government was never overthrown and is still in existence.
I can’t believe that some liberals are bigoted against a Mormon running for president. Since we are supposed to be tolerant and celebrate diversity, we cannot hold a person’s religion against him.
And if any here want to defend this POS fine, but I will oppose him with every available means. Supporting this is never going to be worth it, even for the white house. If the Republicans run him, they chose this when the democrats start exposing this part of his record to the Christian voters. It isn't about Mormonism, it's about decency. Romney fails the test.
No we can't just all get along. Rudy McRomney are unacceptable.
Joseph Smith could have been talking about himself. The Constitution was more in tatters in 1843 than in 2007, after all, we were only a few years before the Civil War. The country, especially the frontier, was a very violent place. The early Mormons were besieged by mobs and government failed to protect them, and even signed an extermination order in Missouri. It is for this reason that Joseph Smith declared himself a candidate for President in 1843, shortly before he was murdered. He also declared that Stephen Douglas would never be President, after Illinois failed to protect the Saints from mob violence. Another man from Illinois won instead.
You’re talking about the bill the NRA endorsed?
If he was talking about himself, it was a failed prophecy (one of many of his)
that's a enormously good sign.
and I wouldn't mind if the story of the prophecy were true...save the country and the Constitution!
LOL! Love it!
Could you give a source for this - as I’m getting tired of hearing what a gun grabber Romney is.
Thanks.
Turning over our sovereignty and rule of law to illegal alien amnesty and anarchy, constitutional rights for non-citizen lawbreakers, Hillary Clinton ready to enact her socialist wealth redistribution scheme...yeah, I'd say we're on the brink of disaster.
FIP Ping
Mitt Romney has faced a barrage of questions about his religion from the news media but few in public from voters.
The outcry from Romney supporters here on FR is that his religion is not a factor. No one has informed the media of that.
As governor, Romney signed a 2004 measure instituting a permanent Massachusetts ban on assault weapons, to take the place of a federal assault weapons ban, which was then about to expire. The bill made Massachusetts the first state to enact its own such ban, and Romney supported the law with the comment: “These guns are not made for recreation or self-defense. They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people.”
http://myclob.pbwiki.com/07-01-2004
I find it interesting, though, that just as LDS call themselves the "saviors" on Mt. Zion who rescue folks from spirit prison (via baptizing dead folks), this "rescue" story line extends elsewhere. LDS Apostle Orson F. Whitney, in Saturday Night Thoughts (p. 60) has a sub-head of "Saviors of the Nation" before writing: "Joseph Smith prophesied that the Elders of Israel would save this Nation in the hour of its extremest peril. At a time when anarchy would threaten the life of the Government, and the Constitution be hanging as by a thread..."
LDS have done a big turnabout in the last 80 years--going from swearing allegiances to "pray and never cease to pray to Almighty God to avenge the blood of the prophets upon this nation, that you will teach the same to your children and to your children’s children unto the third and fourth generation” (did Romney's grandfather swear to this oath?) to statements like this from Ezra Taft Benson, an LDS prophet who opposed communism (following statement made before Benson became a so-called "prophet"):
"The Constitution of the United States is a glorious standard; it is founded in the wisdom of God. It is a heavenly banner." (Benson, 4/1948 Conference Report, p. 85).
Prior to that, (until 1927), the LDS would swear in a temple oath to avenge the blood of Smith. Whereas Benson used "heavenly banner" in an uplifting way of the US Constitution, think of how the term was used previously (quote below is where Krakauer got title for book UNDER THE BANNER OF HEAVEN):
“The people of the rest of the country are our enemies…. When the government conflicts with heaven, we will be ranged under the banner of heaven and against the Government...I defy the United States. I will obey God.” (LDS "Prophet" John Taylor, Salt Lake Tribune, January 6, 1880, quoted in Samuel W. Taylor, Rocky Mountain Empire, 1978, p. 29)
The Stephen Douglas story is a good one. This link provides a great discussion on Joseph's encounter with Stephen Douglas in 1843, 17 years before Douglas was nominated for President by the Democrat Party. Douglas smeared the Saints in 1857 and fulfilled the prophecy. In 1860, he lost the election, carrying only the State of Missouri, and died a year later.<> http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_prophecies.shtml#douglas
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