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Study's Authors Unsure Whether to Credit Law for Gains

Authors are too honest to fudge data but too liberal to credit President Bush.

1 posted on 06/06/2007 1:48:33 AM PDT by ricks_place
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To: ricks_place
People can grouse about the Federal government spending money on education, but if the states aren't doing the job, I don't see the problem.

But because it's not a conservative idea, even conservatives won't give President Bush any credit for doing something that has improved the lives of our young people.

2 posted on 06/06/2007 1:59:15 AM PDT by Darkwolf377 (It's not "immigration" we're against, it's "ILLEGAL immigration"--get it right.)
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To: ricks_place
Some conservative Republicans call the law an unnecessary expansion of federal government, and some liberal Democrats complain it has placed too much emphasis on high-stakes tests and discouraged creativity.

One of those "a pox on both your houses" moments.

How unnecessary an expansion is it if it is doing what the states can't do on their own?

"Discouraged creativity"? One of those useless comments that makes me wish the speaker were in front of me, so I could slap him.

3 posted on 06/06/2007 2:16:38 AM PDT by Darkwolf377
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To: ricks_place

Some improvement, but at what cost?

They could have just issued vouchers, saved a LOAD of our money, and gotten better results!! Thanks George and Teddy. Brilliant power grab you have there.


5 posted on 06/06/2007 2:32:27 AM PDT by ovrtaxt (I would rather vote for Lindsay Lohan than Lindsey Graham.)
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To: ricks_place

All they do is teach to the test now. Drill kids enough and you can get them to pass a multiple choice test. The system sucks.


6 posted on 06/06/2007 2:54:11 AM PDT by misterrob
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To: ricks_place

Funny our kids...seniors...number who failed the test...43%. 43% won’t graduate! And that is after all the money thrown at our school system.

Don’t know what to say or think, I just don’t see the same results as the article. Sad, very sad.


17 posted on 06/06/2007 3:29:32 AM PDT by EBH (May God Save Our Country)
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To: ricks_place
Authors are too honest to fudge data but too liberal to credit President Bush.

Because Bush didn't write the bill.

24 posted on 06/06/2007 3:39:00 AM PDT by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote.)
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To: ricks_place

I would like to see us move away from the Kennedy wing of the Republican party.


28 posted on 06/06/2007 3:52:45 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Enoch Powell was right.)
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To: ricks_place

Having a wife who has recently returned to public education, I can tell you categorically the test results are cooked.


31 posted on 06/06/2007 4:01:53 AM PDT by DreamsofPolycarp
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To: ricks_place
The way to restore decent education is for states to use aggressively the charter school model, which removes oversight from a board of education, and places it in the hands of LOCAL PARENTS, who have the most interest in the efficiency of the teachers and staff.

This assumes, of course, we don't simply home-school as a culture (the best way, imo, but not workable as a universal solution). I hate publicly funded schools, but since we have them, the best way to work them is to have as much parental involvement as possible.

There are, of course, real problems with charter schools as well (the most motivated parents are often the biggest nutcases, and parents today seem oblivious to the fact that little Johnny can be a monster if not disciplined), but those problems are eclipsed by a structure in which those responsible for teacher accountability are the unions.

"No child left behind" has actually REDUCED the overall scores in my wife's charter school, as disproportionate time is now spent with kids who are damaged, as opposed to helping the brightest kids perform to the limit of their capacities.

34 posted on 06/06/2007 4:09:57 AM PDT by DreamsofPolycarp
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To: ricks_place

I make a point to ask every teacher I run into about their thoughts on NCLB. So far, I’ve asked about ten, ranging politically from very liberal to very conservative, and every single one of them thinks that NCLB is garbage.


57 posted on 06/06/2007 5:18:00 AM PDT by jmc813 (The 2nd Amendment is NOT a "social conservative" issue.)
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To: ricks_place
...and some liberal Democrats complain it has placed too much emphasis on high-stakes tests and discouraged creativity.

Yep. How dare teacher tell little Johnny that 2+2 does not equal 39. Or that 'CAT' is not spelled 'rtxyupcge'

Sheesh, how uncreative can one get.

63 posted on 06/06/2007 5:50:55 AM PDT by Condor51 (Rudy makes John Kerry look like a Right Wing 'Gun Nut' Extremist)
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To: All

You are forgetting two fundamental problems with NCLB.

1.) Any test given, regardless, must have a percentage of failures to be a valid test. As the number of people who pass a test approach 100%, the test must become more difficult. You will eventually test yourself out of ability. This is a fact that cannot be ignored.

2.) All students, regardless, will achieve the same levels. This is impossible because NCLB is trying to dictate intelligence. There is no feasible way, no matter if you private school, charter school, homeschool, etc. that you can change a fundamental aspect of a person. My nephew has Downs Syndrome. He will never earn a high school diploma, but under the terms of NCLB, he has to pass the same tests as his gifted, top of her class sister.

I have no problems with accountability. I just wish that some would look at the realistic aspects of this law.


76 posted on 06/06/2007 7:31:06 AM PDT by shag377 (De gustibus non disputandum est)
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To: ricks_place

NCLB has probably helped some kids who were below average in ability. But it has hurt others who were above average because of the dumbing down of the system.


78 posted on 06/06/2007 7:37:21 AM PDT by gracesdad
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To: ricks_place

I heard on the radio this morning that our congress in Sacrament is trying to pass a law that will end the high school exit exam.

If you cannot test, you cannot measure or, hold anyone accountable.


86 posted on 06/06/2007 9:32:21 AM PDT by edcoil (Reality doesn't say much - doesn't need too)
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To: ricks_place

BTTT!


90 posted on 06/06/2007 10:52:49 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: ricks_place

What I noticed, which seems relatively common in the results from state to state, is represented on pages such as that for Florida, under the title “Percentage of Students Scoring at the Proficient Level or Above in Reading.”

Look at that graph. What does it really say...?

Does it not indicate, as with so many of the other states, that the longer the average child stays in public education the further they fall behind...?


91 posted on 06/06/2007 11:08:20 AM PDT by RavenATB
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To: ricks_place

Not in Los Angeles, Alta California, Mexico.


92 posted on 06/06/2007 11:09:00 AM PDT by BurbankKarl
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