The Rally Was a Tremendous Success! Whew! (FairTax)

Nealz Nuze ^ | May 16, 2007 | Neal Boortz

[SittinYonder]

THE RALLY WAS A TREMENDOUS SUCCESS! WHEW!

FairTax Rally Gallery Well .. you came, didn't you? Thousands of you! What a tremendous night it was last night at the Carolina Coliseum. We had about 10,000 seats curtained off, and as I looked around I don't think there were 1000 empty seats ... all of them up near the rafters. So I'll estimate the crowd at between 8,500 and 9,000. What a night! Music from Banks and Shane and the Swinging Medallions ... and appearances by Governor Mike Huckabee, Congressman Duncan Hunter, Sean Hannity and John Stossel.

The really amazing part of the rally was when we all left the coliseum with thousands of FairTax signs to march around the Koger Center .. the site of the debate. Everyone was orderly --- but if you'll look at our picture galleries you'll find that we pretty much had all of the territory covered with FairTax supporters.

Several anecdotes of encounters with the staff of presidential candidates are starting to filter through. Some McCain staffers questioned some FairTax supporters about how they got there, thinking that they had been bussed in. They seemed impressed that most of the people there had driven to Columbia on their own.

There is no doubt that this rally last night had an effect. The crowd was so large that it cannot be ignored. The two big presences in Columbia last night were the presidential candidates and the FairTax.

Thanks so much for the sacrifice you made to get there. Now it's on to Ames, Iowa for a rally on the eve of the Iowa Caucus!

[SittinYonder]

Congressman Tom Tancredo also came over before the debate and spoke at the rally.

The march around the Koger Center was incredible. We were led by a local high school marching band. The cops told Boortz we could only march around the Coliseum where the rally was being held.

Though the FairTax staff people were trying to lead the crowd around the Coliseum, a couple thousand of us broke off and marched in front of the Koger center. We walked on the sidewalk between the press satellite trucks and their tents.

The only recognizable press person was CNN's John King. He refused to acknowledge the thousands of people wearing FairTax T-shirts and hats, carrying signs and chanting "FairTax Now ... Dare to be Fair!" King just stared past us like we didn't exist - especially when some of us started telling him he was missing a huge story.

The "Impeach Bush Now" crowd was completely lost by the thousands of FairTax marchers.

It really was a great political rally. A respectful and friendly crowd. They had shuttles to and from parking that made the entire thing very convenient and easy.

There are pictures at the link ... my wife and kids are in one of the shots.

[SittinYonder]

FairTax ping for some who might be interested. The crowd was enormous and we flooded the blocks around the Koger Center where the debate was held.

Of course, little or no media coverage despite all the people there.

[eyespysomething]

I am still stuned by the lack of media coverage. Thousands marching, no film footage shown ANYWHERE!

Guess next time we need really really big puppets. That’d get their attention.

[Mr. K]

Discussing the ‘fair tax’ bites it and always will until its proponants drop the ‘tax inclusive’ rate specification (don’t even bother me with trying to explain it anymore, I understand what it means and it sux and so do you if you want to use that - it gives the perception of a lower tax rate and I don’t want to start any discussion with deception at your core)

I am all for a FLAT TAX. 10% across the board for EVERYONE, no exceptions, no refunds, no deductions except you do not pay on money that was taken away by other taxes. (real estate taxes are dedutible, but the mortgage interest isn’t anymore) The government HAS TO live within that budget.

One of my biggest objections to “fair tax” is that it isn’t. You pay it at the cash register, but people who make less than $40K pay nothing so they get a huge tax refund at the end of the year through uncle sucker.

Can’t any of you see that these people (and the number will be enormous as a voitng %percentage) will VOTE FOR THE PERSON WHO PROMISES THEM A BIGGER ONE? All elections are reduced to one issue.

[SittinYonder]

The Flat Tax doesn’t do away with the IRS, it keeps the government keeping tabs on its citizens and it’s absurd to believe that it won’t eventually become the same as the modern tax code. It leaves in place the lobbyists and special interest groups and gives the government the same opportunity to attempt to manipulate our behavior.

[RC51]

My understanding of Fair Tax is that as long as I purchase everything under my business then my tax rate is 0%.

Is that true?

[The Pack Knight]

My understanding of Fair Tax is that as long as I purchase everything under my business then my tax rate is 0%.

Is that true?

Not at all. If you purchase anything at the retail level, it is taxed, no matter who you're purchasing it for.

[Your Nightmare]

The Flat Tax doesn’t do away with the IRS,

And the FairTax just replaces one bureaucracy with another.

it keeps the government keeping tabs on its citizens

The Flat Tax requires no more personal information be given to the government than the FairTax does.

and it’s absurd to believe that it won’t eventually become the same as the modern tax code.

Well, golly. You could say that about anything, including the FairTax.

It leaves in place the lobbyists and special interest groups and gives the government the same opportunity to attempt to manipulate our behavior.

As does the FairTax, although the FairTax may make it easier to manipulate behavior by adjusting the rate on specific goods or services, i.e., sin taxes. The Flat Tax has no exemptions except for a standard personal exemption.

[The Pack Knight]

We'll drop the inclusive specification rate for the FairTax when you drop the inlusive rate specification for the Flat Tax. That is, unless your version of the Flat Tax is 10% of the taxpayer's after tax income.

Also, the Flat Tax isn't immune to the very problem you lay at the feet of the FairTax. How long before a politician comes along promising a minimum income exemption, just like Kennedy is proposing for the FICA tax?

Your statement of "people who make less than $40k pay nothing" makes no sense. Under the FairTax, one's income is irrelevant when determining what one pays in taxes. The rebate is calculated solely based upon the size of the taxpayer's household, not on the taxpayer's income or on how much the taxpayer spent in taxes that year. A taxpayer who makes $40,000 a year gets precisely the same rebate as one who makes $40,000,000 a year, so long as both have the same marital status and number of children.

A single taxpayer with no dependents, for example, who makes less than $40,000 pays no net taxes only if he spends less than $10,210 per year. One who makes $40,000,000 a year also pays no taxes, so long as he spends less than $10,210 per year. What's not fair about that?

And, for the record, at the current prevalent rate of spending vs. saving in this country (less than 5% of income is saved), your person who makes $40,000 a year would indeed be paying taxes, unless he's married and has 5 or more children. A couple with no children that spends $40,000 per year would pay $4,962 per year after the rebate.

Anything else?

[RoseofTexas]

Nay, that won’t work either...best way is to HOLD the rallies in front of their Office buildings! I guarantee you it will get lots of attention!!

[Principled]

I am all for a FLAT TAX. 10%

That's a tax inclusive rate. Drop the deceptive rate specification.

[Your Nightmare]

Not at all. If you purchase anything at the retail level, it is taxed, no matter who you're purchasing it for.

I don't believe that's what the bill states. It states "No tax shall be imposed under section 101 on any taxable property or service purchased for... a business purpose in a trade or business." It makes no stipulation that the purchase can't be at retail (it does for purchases for export - they must be done at wholesale).

[Apple Blossom]

Ping.

[Principled]

Items purchased for retail consumption are taxed.

Business items (inputs) are not taxed.

The mechanism for tracking this is a tax exempt cert not unlike today's sales tax certs.

If you buy a new tractor for your landscaping business, you may buy it without tax. If you buy a new tractor for your son to mow your lawn at home, it will have tax added.

[Mr. K]

I mean if something costs $100 and the tax rate is 10% (tax EXclusive) then you automatically know the final price is $110. Quick, what would it’s price be with a 10% tax INCLUSIVE rate?

You flat taxers are like liberals- Lying about the real rate, and attacking anyone with stupid nonesense when they try to have a rational discussion. ANOTHER reason I hate the flat tax.. all its supporters are unable to discuss it rationally withouth resorting to liberal tactics.

The answer to the aboive question is that the final price would be 111.10 , which to most people looks like 11.1% tax rate (which it is), not 10% (tax inclusive)

[Principled]

I oppose the flat tax. Separately, it is trivial to calculate the tax using either method. Sorry you have trouble.

[The Pack Knight]

I stand corrected. As long as the item purchased is to be used for business purposes, the item is not taxed. However...

Excerpt from H.R. 25, Sec. 509: Any purchaser who purchased taxable property or services but did not pay tax by reason of asserting an intermediate and export sales exemption shall keep records sufficient to determine whether said exemption was valid for a period of 7 years after the purchase of taxable property or services.

Basically, to purchase, say, a car for your own personal use but claim as an intermediate sales exemption would be tax evasion and illegal. You would have to keep records that 95% of the car's use was in the course of producing taxable goods and services. If the car is used for business, but not 95% of that use is for business, then you would be entitled to a partial refund of your tax through a "Business Use Conversion Credit", which covers both mixed-use items and previously taxed items converted to business use (i.e., a previously purchased home computer used to start up a home business).

[Principled]

It's also curious that you denigrate my post for repeating your assertion from your own post. lol

[Your Nightmare]

Separately, it is trivial to calculate the tax using either method. Sorry you have trouble.

Really. Maybe you would like to show me the calculation for the tax on a $99.44 item using the 23% tax inclusive rate. Using the 29.87% exclusive rate it's:

99.44 x .2987 = $29.70

Let's see your calculations.

[Principled]

Let's see your calculations

99.44*1.2987

There it is. Trivial. 1.2987 IS 1+23/77. No worries.