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Prostitutes and Politics Why is it still illegal to pay for sex?
Reason Online ^ | May 7, 2007 | Cathy Young

Posted on 05/09/2007 6:51:49 AM PDT by Lusis

The resignation of Randall Tobias, the chief of the Bush administration's foreign aid programs, for "personal reasons" following the revelation that he had engaged the services of two escort-service workers has provided rich grist for amusement on the punditry circuit. There was indeed plenty of material for humor in the situation, from Tobias's strong stand in favor of abstinence teaching in AIDS prevention programs to his "I didn't inhale"-style assertion that he never had sex with the women. But the predictable laughs have obscured a much larger issue than hypocrisy in the ranks of social conservatives. The reason Tobias's call-girl adventures became public is that the owner of the Washington, DC-based service, Pamela Martin, is facing prosecution and has turned her records over to news organizations to help pay for her legal defense.

Even those who feel a certain schadenfreude at Tobias's downfall should be asking the question: should there have been a criminal case in the first place?

(Excerpt) Read more at reason.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: amoral; bowtothepeepee; butgodsaysnoooooo; consentingadults; ilovebiggubmint; inprivate; itsjustsex; lawrencevtexas; libertines; othersdonotpay; prostitution; repentsinnerz; somehavetopay; thepeepeeandstate; thepeepeeasgod
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To: Lusis

It’s probably already been said, but nonetheless:

How is being paid for sex worse than giving it away for free?

At least the prostitute is getting something out of it.

Meanwhile, we have a whole society of immoral people constantly giving it away, and yet they still turn up their noses at official whores!

I still think prostitution should be illegal, but I also think prostitutes are smarter than the just-plain-immoral every-day women who screw around just because they want to (never mind the men). They’re no worse.


141 posted on 05/09/2007 9:21:31 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue.)
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To: pgyanke
You can’t deal with the subject, so you’d rather argue semantics instead.

You were the one who kicked off this whole exchange by arguing semantics with another poster. The only reason I bothered to post to you was because you torpedoed your own point, at that. See if you can figure it out, smart guy . . .

142 posted on 05/09/2007 9:22:23 AM PDT by Hemingway's Ghost (Spirit of '75)
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To: psychoknk
I would define a right as being anything that the government doesn't forbid you to do.

Whoa! I would define a right as our Founding Fathers understood it... prerogatives endowed in humanity by its Creator. Have you forgotten the Ninth Amendment?

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Rights, if they are truly rights, can't be taken away by government without grave injustice.

143 posted on 05/09/2007 9:23:04 AM PDT by pgyanke (RUDY GIULIANI 2008 - BECAUSE IF YOU'RE GOING TO COMPROMISE YOUR PRINCIPLES ANYWAY... WHY WAIT?)
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To: Hemingway's Ghost

How can an illiterate graduate from a service academy? I’m wasting no more time on your idiocy nor your schoolyard taunts. You can talk to yourself from here on...


144 posted on 05/09/2007 9:26:45 AM PDT by pgyanke (RUDY GIULIANI 2008 - BECAUSE IF YOU'RE GOING TO COMPROMISE YOUR PRINCIPLES ANYWAY... WHY WAIT?)
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To: Star Traveler
In Genesis 38.24, when Judah thinks his daughter-in-law Tamar has played the whore (not realizing that he himself is the one who got her pregnant), he orders her to be burnt.

In Leviticus 21.9, if a priest's daughter has played the whore, she is to be burnt.

So the Bible doesn't seem to take a positive view of prostitution (examples could be multiplied)...but Rahab the harlot of Jericho gets a good press (Joshua 2) and the Gospel according to St. Matthew makes her an ancestor of Jesus (1.5).

145 posted on 05/09/2007 9:28:17 AM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: wideawake
The notion that prostitutes are informed adults who make a rational decision to engage in consensual acts is mythical.

99.999% of prostitutes are women in desperate circumstances who are tricked or coerced by cynical individuals into the profession.

And that’s true in jurisdictions where prostitution is legal, as well as ones in which it is illegal.


I think I may need to report you either to the Department of Makin’ Stuff Up, or the Department of Knowing You’re Wiser than Other Free Adults.

Maybe both.

146 posted on 05/09/2007 9:28:17 AM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Your FRiendly FReeper Patent Attorney (...and another "Constitution-bot"))
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To: pgyanke
How can an illiterate graduate from a service academy? I’m wasting no more time on your idiocy nor your schoolyard taunts. You can talk to yourself from here on...

Balls fists, holds breath, stands in corner . . .

I'm illiterate, but I've made my living as a writer/editor for fifteen years. Go figure.

People with a glass chin shouldn't lead with it, friend.


147 posted on 05/09/2007 9:32:07 AM PDT by Hemingway's Ghost (Spirit of '75)
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To: psychoknk
Do you have a better definition?

A man's rights are those natural rights granted by God (or nature, if you're not religious) that no human institution may infringe upon, except in cases to prevent someone from infringing someone else's rights.
148 posted on 05/09/2007 9:33:24 AM PDT by JamesP81 (Isaiah 10:1 - "Woe to those who enact evil statutes")
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To: al baby; Allegra; Auntbee; BJClinton; Dashing Dasher; dfwddr; exile; feinswinesuksass; ...

Tard ping


149 posted on 05/09/2007 9:36:39 AM PDT by EveningStar
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To: investigateworld
Just little things like what that statement was based on.

Sociological research done on prostitution as well as personal anecdotal evidence.

I work in an industry where it is very common for a boss or a client to hire the services of strippers and prostitutes.

While I work at a firm now where these practices are thankfully barred and well-policed, that wasn't always the case.

My practice was to either decline these women's services outright or - if impossible for political reasons - to engage them in conversation in lieu of the usual activity.

Pretty much every conversation revealed a skilless woman who had started stripping to support an out-of-wedlock child, or had been encouraged into the lifestyle by friends (who were remunerated for recruitment) or a leeching boyfriend or a drug habit (this last was almost never admitted to openly).

Inevitably, stripping morphed into turning tricks - i.e. either you help out this customer or I'll ban you from my club and make sure you can't get work elsewhere (implicit or explicit threats).

Pretty much every one of these women came from a seriously dysfunctional home, and I suspect many were sexually abused by maternal boyfriends. And these were the ones who spoke English well.

Not once did I encounter a woman who told me: "You know, I was going to take an entry-level job at a design firm, but I thought about it for a while and decided that prostitution was the thing for me instead."

I saw a parade of women with broken family backgrounds, no other marketable skills, no education , etc. trying to put a brave face on a horrible situation.

I did not see any happy entrepreneurs.

150 posted on 05/09/2007 9:37:10 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Beelzebubba
I think I may need to report you either to the Department of Makin’ Stuff Up, or the Department of Knowing You’re Wiser than Other Free Adults.

I'm more than happy to defend myself in front of those two tribunals as long as you turn yourself in to The Department Of Not Having Any Cogent Counterarguments To Make.

151 posted on 05/09/2007 9:38:45 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Lusis
If abortion is legal, why is prostitution illegal??

Obama is fatigued and says he is prone to make mistakes when he's tired. I thought that a woman should have the right to do as she pleases with her body!

152 posted on 05/09/2007 9:39:40 AM PDT by stockstrader (We need a conservative candidate who will UNITE the Party, not a liberal one who will DIVIDE it!)
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To: Hemingway's Ghost
I'm illiterate, but I've made my living as a writer/editor for fifteen years.

Given the examples of modern writing that we all witness on a daily basis... this is hardly compelling.

Tell you what, Mr Writer. I'll try one more time to engage you in conversation beyond your attempted "gotcha" critique of syntax. Do you think our Founding Fathers were ok with slavery because it wasn't outlawed by the Constitution and some also owned slaves themselves?

Before you dismiss the question, this was the issue I was initially addressing.

153 posted on 05/09/2007 9:40:55 AM PDT by pgyanke (RUDY GIULIANI 2008 - BECAUSE IF YOU'RE GOING TO COMPROMISE YOUR PRINCIPLES ANYWAY... WHY WAIT?)
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To: Dr. Thorne
The men who wrote that Constitution would never allow legalized prostitution,

Actually, it was quite legal across the nation until after the civil war.

but the Libertarians don’t care about that truth

I bet the irony of this statement is lost on you.
154 posted on 05/09/2007 9:44:55 AM PDT by BJClinton (WWBJCD?)
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To: Little Ray
The guy is a moron. The extremely HIGH rate of HIV/AIDS in Africa is largely due to prostitutes..

HIV is very difficult to transmit through normal sex between healthy people. The CDC has put the chance of contraction at 1 in 1000 for the female partner and 1 in 2000 for the male.

The situation in Africa isn't healthy people, it is impoverished peasants with open sores all over their bodies. Contact in those circumstances is ideal for transmission of AIDS as well as every other disease.

155 posted on 05/09/2007 9:47:34 AM PDT by CGTRWK
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To: wideawake
A lot of the things you posted are correct, but the ones I've met (through the course and scope of my employment of course) run the gambit from 'lot lizards' to escorts to the Hollywood/political types.

Check the ladies who were employed by the D.C. Madame. One was a adjunct professor at one of the service academies.

Again, for the record, I do not believe it's our Creators Plan for anyone to be engaged in that profession.

But until they get it out of their system, I would like to keep them healthy and safe.

156 posted on 05/09/2007 9:48:59 AM PDT by investigateworld (The BP guys will do more Prison Time than the Worst Jap POW camp commander,thanks W)
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To: FormerLib
During the late 19th Century, women being forced into prostitution was a distinct problem. What “slippery slope” arguments derive from preventing people from being forced into something against their will? If anything, it works against gun control as it works against being able to do things to law abiding citizens, such as disarm them, in support of some greater good (women were often forced into prostitution to pay off legally-acquired debts, debt payment is usually considered a good thing).

If someone is held against their will, it is a crime all to itself. The inclusion of prostitution would be after the fact.

157 posted on 05/09/2007 9:58:12 AM PDT by Niteranger68 (Discrimination against Muslims is acceptable if we are to survive.)
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To: pgyanke
Given the examples of modern writing that we all witness on a daily basis... this is hardly compelling.

Yawn.

Do you think our Founding Fathers were ok with slavery because it wasn't outlawed by the Constitution and some also owned slaves themselves?

Since at the Constitutional Convention, the Founding Fathers tabled the issue of slavery in general, and the slave trade in specific (giving the new Congress the power to ban the slave trade in 20 years)---fearing that it might derail the entire process by alienating those representatives from the southern states, whose economies depended on slavery---I'd wager that yes, it's fairly logical to assume that some Founding Fathers---namely, perhaps, those from the southern states---were "okay" with slavery. They might have been "okay" with it more as an issue of necessity and practicality vice morality, but the fact that the entire Convention could have been derailed over the issue of the slave trade is proof positive that some were "for" maintaining it, and by extension, the institution of slavery itself.


158 posted on 05/09/2007 9:59:37 AM PDT by Hemingway's Ghost (Spirit of '75)
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To: Lusis
Walkin' the line
You were a marksman
Told me that law like wine was ageless
Public defender
You had to admit
You wanted the love
Of a sex offender
159 posted on 05/09/2007 10:03:40 AM PDT by Caesar Soze
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To: Verginius Rufus

Yeah, it’s like I said — “as if anyone had to ask the question”


160 posted on 05/09/2007 10:12:14 AM PDT by Star Traveler
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