Posted on 05/04/2007 1:01:09 PM PDT by stm
A horrifying video showing a 17-year-old Kurdish girl being stoned to death for having a relationship with a Sunni Muslim boy has made its way onto the Web, drawing outrage and condemnation from international human rights groups.
The graphic video, posted on YouTube, shows Du’a Khalil Aswad, a member of a minority Kurdish religious group called Yezidi, being stoned and kicked in the streets of Bashika, a predominantly Kurdish town near the norther capital of Mosul.
The stoning happened last month but only came to light Thursday when the video was posted on YouTube.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
You said — “I hate to tell you this, bro, but Islamic terrorism has been around for many decades, and will be around for many decades to come...”
—
And that’s why I’ve said in many places on Free Republic, that this is a *100-years-war* that we are in. Are people prepared for this next *100 years* of war?
You said — “Yes. This is why Saddam - a secular ruler - ruled as a dictator and kept the mullahs suppressed, and didn’t allow free elections that would result in fundamentalist rule.”
—
And if he hadn’t invaded Kuwait, if he hadn’t been funding the P.A. (Palestinian Authority) for their terrorist acts, and if he hadn’t been building up his stokcs of WMD (and especially necular weapons), and if he hadn’t been against the United States and funding those other terrorist enemies of the United States — then — he might have still remained as that dictator.
I guess he just made the wrong decisions...
You Tube removes anything remotely critiquing Muslims.
You could call it the first dhimmified video website.
We are hoping that this conservative alternative will become mainstream:
You said — “The Video of the Stoning on YouTube - WARNING - GRAPHIC & DISTURBING!”
—
Well, the video is gone again. It looks like YouTube does not want to air it. I’ve got a copy of it downloaded and made into an “mp4” file (for what can be played on an iPod). I can send it to anyone that wishes it. I think it’s an important reminder of this despicable act that is still perpetrated in these countries over there in the Middle East.
The size of the file is 21.4 MB. So, you would have to be able to accept an attachment of that size. I suppose I could put it up on a web page somewhere, if necessary, instead (for downloading). Contact me at my e-mail address on my FReep Home page (address in the “contact” link on that page).
They are not Muslim:
That’s for sure!
I almost had a fight break out in one of my classes last year between a Muslim and a Yezidi. That was the first time I encountered this sect.
Okay, some further links...
Iranian and Kurdish Women’s Rights Organization —
IKWRO was established in August 2002 to advocate for and support Kurdish and Iranian women, but was expanded in 2006 to support all women and men needing help in the Arabic, Farsi and Kurdish languages. We can also find help in Turkish. IKWRO can help you to escape violence within the family or forced marriage, with claiming benefits and making asylum claims, with language skills and other training, and by providing translation and interpreting services. We are committed to women’s equality and human rights, to empowering women to be able to make their own choices, to support themselves financially and emotionally and to live free and happy lives.
http://www.ikwro.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=147&Itemid=2
[video here,in different clips, most with the 3gp format, though, which you’ll either have to get a viewer for it or convert it]
—
Some kind of forum site has posted other links, too —
http://www.freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=51409
http://www.aina.org/news/20070425181603.htm
Videos:
http://www.jebar.info/yazidivedio/bisababislamaha.3gp
http://www.jebar.info/yazidivedio/2.3gp
http://www.jebar.info/yazidivedio/016.3gp
http://www.jebar.info/yazidivedio/video-0007.3gp
http://www.jebar.info/yazidivedio/1.3gp
http://www.jebar.info/yazidivedio/3.3gp
[Note: — Now that I see these links and videos, these might be the “source material” for that YouTube posting. I think someone put that YouTube one together for Amnesty International.]
—
Another link —
http://www.aina.org/news/20070425181603.htm
—
This should be kept for future reference and for totally getting rid of this practice. It’s absolutely horrendous — and if you see the post in #79, you’ll see that it’s horrendous on the basis that this is not what God calls us to do, today, in this present dispensation, the Age of Grace, which is available through Jessu Christ, our Lord and Savior.
God’s righteous judgements *still stand* and all are deserving of death — but that includes you and me, too — not just that little girl. And those men apparently think that they are much more righteous than she was, and thus thought that they could dispense the “righteousness of God” — which they didn’t, because God did not call them to do that.
So, it is a barbaric and unrighteous thing to do for Christians or Jews or any other race or group or religion.
An “Assyrian International News Agency” article —
—
Video Captures Stoning of Kurdish Teenage Girl
Posted GMT 4-25-2007 23:16:3
Mosul, Iraq — According to the Kurdish website Jebar.info up to 1000 men from the Yezidi Kurdish community of Mosul killed a teenager who’s only crime was running away to marry a Muslim man whom she loved and converting to his religion.
For four months the girl had been given shelter by a local Muslim Sheik. It was reported that in the last few days her family persuaded her to return home, convincing her that she had been forgiven by her parents and relatives for her mistake.
In a short mobile video clip which appears to have been taken by locals at seen of the murder, the girl is seen being ambushed on her way home by a group of up to 1000 men who were waiting for her to return; the men killed her in the most brutal way possible, by throwing large stones on her head. The following clips show that while she is alive and crying for help she is taunted and kicked in her stomach until someone finishes her off by throwing a large stone on her face.
Warning: the following videos (RealPlayer) show graphic and disturbing images:
video 1
video 2
video 3
video 4
video 5
video 6
[note from Star Traveler: these clips are also the ones I included in Post #86]
From the clips it appears that the girl was first stripped naked to symbolize that she had dishonored her family and her Yezidi religion. She is lying on the road naked while her smashed face is covered with blood and still breathing.
According to the website and footage from the clip a number of armed local police officers were present who in fact helped the crowd to kill the woman rather than preventing the crime. Sometime later the Iraqi army arrived at the scene and refused anyone entry, including the press.
Killing women for reasons of honor, shame and religion does happens in regions of Kurdistan and Iraq. The above incidents are not uncommon in some of the deeply religious and traditional communities. For long violence against women has been commonly used as a political and religious weapon and as a means of social control.
By Kameel Ahmady, Mina Rojdar
www.Kurdishaspect.com
Well, I thought the videos I saw were extremely gruesome — I was wrong. All the previous videos were simply the prelude. This one I could feel myself turning pale and getting sick... This one is the death of her...
You better have a strong stomach for this one...
—
If for no other reason, this should be seen to — *grasp* — the significance of this going on thrughout Muslim lands, time and time again. *This* is what is happening. Although this particular barbaric act was from the Yezidi, it is *typical* of what they *also* do in the Muslim lands. It’s far more practiced in the Muslim lands than it is in this small and isolated group of people (although it’s bad enough with them).
It’s absolutely terrible.
I read another woman’s post that said — when she simply “read” the article about it happening she “sanitized” it in her head. But, seeing it (on the video) took away that “sanitizing” in one’s head by simply “reading”. To the woman poster (that I read) by seeing it, brought it home to her, much more deeply.
The WTF Blog —
http://thewtfblog.blogspot.com/
and their link to the video — not seen anywhere else...
Some background into that area from a blog...
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2007/02/fissions-and-fractures-in-northern-iraq.html
In another section of the blog, he has some interesting comments —
Over the last two years Gates of Vienna has gradually become more Eurocentric than would be expected of an average American blog. A certain well-known lefty blog — I won’t stoop to name or link it here — has referred to us as “the Eurotrash version of LGF”. And with good reason. Who could disagree?
The more I investigate the Great Jihad, the more important Europe seems. The United States military fights on the front lines of the “War on Terror”, but Europeans live on the front lines. What happens in Europe is crucial: if the USA follows Denmark’s example, we can expect to defeat the Jihad. If we use Sweden as a model, we can put our head between our legs right now and kiss our collective fundament goodbye.
In either case, what happens in Europe foreshadows the shape of things to come here in the USA.
And so it goes...
You see, it’s not the Jews who were ordering it, it wasn’t (or today, isn’t) the Christians who were ordering it — it was *God Himself* who was ordering it.
So, as I understand your position, the critical point is that God is ordering the stoning, and so that is what makes it a righteous and just act. When man decides to do it on his own, it is evil. Therefore, logically, if God were to tell us tomorrow that he is ordering that 1 million unborn children be aborted towards some grand plan of his, that would make abortion for that particular reason acceptable, correct? Or, how about the public beheading of 1 million 5-year olds? Basically, there is no act so evil that would not become righteous if you believed God wanted you to do it, would you agree?
Opps, Jesus taught that children that curse their parents are to be put to death.. not only in OT of the Bible, but Jesus himself taught this...
* "He who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death." Ex. 21:17
* "Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? For God commanded, saying... `He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.' But you say..." Mat. 15:3-4
Western society has (because of it's tradition) left this and now we have crime out the yahzoo and our childrens death rate and violence is outragious with gang fights etc.. but Jesus himself was not one bit ashamed of his commandments.. only we are.
* "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets... Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great..." Mat. 5:17-19
It was definitely a penalty in their day. It is no longer a penalty today, for the Jews.
Jesus directly counters you...
* "Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? For God commanded, saying... `He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.' But you say..." Mat. 15:3-4
Therefore the “glass house” that you’re talking about doesn’t exist. It did at one time, and was abandoned long ago (the “glass house” of stoning). It never did exist for the Christians.
"Judge Not" is hypocrite haven. He who lives in a glass house should not throw stones. Such Christians, though, should relocate. Move into "the temple of the great God, which is being built with heavy stones" (Ezra 5:8).
Christians live in the "building" for which Christ is "the chief corner stone" (Eph. 2:20). And if that Stone falls on someone it "will grind him to powder" (Mat. 21:44; Luke 20:18; cf. Ex. 32:20). It is better to be judged by a Christian than crushed by Christ.
Following God's word is not evil first off.. Second Paul tells us exactly who is do the killing... for us as individuals are to "give place to wrath"... and that place is government authorities...
God through Paul specifically commands earthly governments to execute criminals with the sword:
* For [the governing authority] is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. Rom. 13:4
It’s interesting that the Muslims stone and cut
off hands and feet of innocent people every day
without a whisper from the press. Yet the media
go all nutzy over a Yezidi stoning.
The Kurds are related to Israel.
It’s interesting that the Muslims stone and cut
off hands and feet of innocent people every day
without a whisper from the press. Yet the media
go all nutzy over a Yezidi stoning.
The Kurds are related to Israel.
You said — “Being a former Christian, I’m long familiar with most of the scriptural/theological analysis you presented, but I ultimately turned away from a similar position when I realized that it was, in actuality, an incredibly tortured and twisted rationalization of an obvious truth — that the Bible is a product of ancient man, in all his backwardsness and barbarism, not of any God. You’ve come to the opposite conclusion, and I respect that. Now, back to the original point.”
—
Well, that’s very interesting, describing yourself as a former Christian. I can’t help but wonder why, but I suppose that’s not the big question here on this thread.
But before I move on, to what you’ve said next, I will say that people should believe God and what He says — based upon — whether He “is” (i.e., He exists), that He is the Creator God (you know, the one spoken about in the Declaration of Independence), and that He has spoken to us — through the Word of God (as given to us by Him guiding those who wrote it) and through the living word, Jesus Christ.
And one should not take it to be “I’ll believe it, so that makes it true for me!” That’s definitely no way to go. It’s either true in an outside and objective sense, apart from anything anyone says or believes — or it simply is not true.
And with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, that we are told about in the Bible and testified to us by Jesus Christ — He is true in that objective sense. That’s the only reason and basis we have for believing it (not just because of some wishful thinking on our part).
So, that’s where my answers are “coming from.”
.
And then you say — “So, as I understand your position, the critical point is that God is ordering the stoning, and so that is what makes it a righteous and just act. When man decides to do it on his own, it is evil. Therefore, logically, if God were to tell us tomorrow that he is ordering that 1 million unborn children be aborted towards some grand plan of his, that would make abortion for that particular reason acceptable, correct? Or, how about the public beheading of 1 million 5-year olds? Basically, there is no act so evil that would not become righteous if you believed God wanted you to do it, would you agree?”
—
Well, let’s look at that question carefully and see what you’re saying.
Today when I talk to you and you tell me (for sake of discussion, you’re a guy...) that you would never have sex with a 10 year old, either a boy or a girl, and that it’s simply abhorrent and a terrible idea.
And I ask you, “But why? Do you mean that you’re accepting other people’s opinions about it, or you just realize that it’s illegal and you won’t do it because you’ll get in trouble, or you, perhaps just can’t stand the thought of it, or what?”
You might tell me that, *you* personally think it’s abhorrent and that *you* personally think that anyone who does that should be put away for life.
Then I say, “Okay, I see that this is definitely your strongly held and personal belief and that’s *who you are*. You are such a person that this is what you think.
Okay, I now understand who you are and what type of person you are. BUT — let me ask something. What if you “change your mind” later on and you start to think that it’s okay to do that. What would you do then? I mean, you think this way now — but later, you just might think, “Well, it’s not really a bad idea after all and I think I just might do it.”
I might stand back out of the way, before I asked the questioned, because you might get so mad at me, and say, “I would never change my mind about that!!” But, then again, I might ask you once more — “BUT, what if you did? Would you do it then, if you changed your mind?”
You see, you would be trying to tell me that it’s *not in your character* to be that way and you would never change your mind and that it’s abhorrent. But, I might be saying, “However, *theoretically* it’s possible you could change your mind and thus, if I ask the question, would you do it then, if you thought differently?”
You would simply *reject that question* out of hand, as *not realistic* and *not representing your character* — and thus is a ridiculous question.
AND LIKEWISE, to ask the “What if God were to do something unrighteous, would that make it righteous?” — is like asking if God would change His character and change His righeousness to something unrighteous.
But, you could say, “Well, if God says this is righteous now, He could change His mind and say it’s not later.” But, once again, it comes down to the basic character (either of the person or of God). In God’s case, He actually says that He’s “not like a man” in that He *will not* change His mind or His character. He is perfectly righteous in ways (He explains to us...) that are *beyond* even our comprehension. That’s what He says, about Himself.
So, to have a question posed — “What if God says to do this unrighteous thing — would you do it and would that make it righteous?” — that is asking a question that would never be and would never happen, because God doesn’t change His mind (like mankind does) and God’s righteousness is the same from the beginning to the present and through to the infinity of the future.
The *real understanding* of this is that there is no unrighteous act or command that God would give, because all that He does is full of righteousness.
Therefore, to ask, “What if He did this unrighteous thing?” is not understanding who God is. He wouldn’t, because He doesn’t violate His character and who He is and He never changes in who He is.
The Christian God has ordered the killing of children and innocent people before, according to the Old Testament. So, it would not be out of character for him to do it again, and that is why my question is a fair one.
You said — “Jesus directly counters you...”
No He doesn’t. He wasn’t talking to me, or the other Christians of today; He was talking to the Jews. And today, their sovereignty has been taken away from them, so they do *not have the ability* to carry out the law as it was given to them. It is now out of their hands, because God has made it that way in this dispensation. Now, I won’t say that during the Kingdom Age, but we’re not in the Kingdom age at this time. So, come back and ask me that again, after Christ has set up the Kingdom and is ruling from Jerusalem here on earth.
And He’s right, nothing will pass from the law. It’s still there and the full measure of the law will be fulfilled. It’s just not going to be fulfilled in the Age of Grace — which we’re in now.
So, three points, here. First sovereignty has been removed from Israel to perform the law as it was given to them. They no longer, currently have that ability. And that was by God’s doing.
Second, the law will not pass away, like Jesus said. It will be fulfilled in it entirety, during the Kingdom Age.
Third, Christians were *never* to implement the laws given to the Jews. There are over 600 of them and they were *never* meant for Christians. These were given to the Jews to fulfill as God had demanded. They failed. God took away their sovereignty and their ability to carry it out any longer. It will not be given back to them again, until they have acknowledged the Messiah.
Also, for those Gentile Christians who may be wondering, there is the First Jerusalem Council, presided over by James and Peter, who gave the requirements to be met by the Christians that Paul was preaching to (all those of us who are non-Jews)...
The First Jerusalem Council was written to me. I’ll read that one for you...
Acts 15:23-29
23 They wrote this letter by them: The apostles, the elders, and the brethren, To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings.
24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”*—to whom we gave no such commandment—
25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth.
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things:
29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.
And so, as a gentile Christian, that’s the letter written to me, that was confirmed by the Christian church and by the Holy Spirit’s confirmation. That’s the one that we live by today, in the Age of Grace.
And for further expansion on that, we can read the many writings of Paul in the matter.
For the full context of this — I include the following —
1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”
2 Therefore, when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question.
3 So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through Phoenicia and Samaria, describing the conversion of the Gentiles; and they caused great joy to all the brethren.
4 And when they had come to Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders; and they reported all things that God had done with them.
5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”
6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.
7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.
8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us,
9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”
12 Then all the multitude kept silent and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring how many miracles and wonders God had worked through them among the Gentiles.
13 And after they had become silent, James answered, saying, “Men and brethren, listen to me:
14 Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name.
15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written:
16 ‘After this I will return And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins, And I will set it up;
17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, Says the Lord who does all these things.’
18 “Known to God from eternity are all His works.
19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God,
20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood.
21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”
22 Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas who was also named Barsabas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren.
23 They wrote this letter by them: The apostles, the elders, and the brethren, To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings.
24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”*—to whom we gave no such commandment—
25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth.
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things:
29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.
30 So when they were sent off, they came to Antioch; and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the letter.
31 When they had read it, they rejoiced over its encouragement.
Note what Peter said to the entire church —
10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”
And look at what James, the “brother” of Jesus said, the patriarch of the beginning Christian church —
19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God,
20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood.
And that pretty much says it in the Age of Grace that we are in...
.
As for the rest of what you’re saying, I have no idea what you’re talking about...
You said — “Western society has (because of it’s tradition) left this and now we have crime out the yahzoo and our childrens death rate and violence is outragious with gang fights etc.. but Jesus himself was not one bit ashamed of his commandments.. only we are.”
—
And when Jesus arrives here again, and as He sets up the Kingdom, then we’ll be in the Kingdom Age and in another dispensation. Currently, we are not in that “age” (or dispensation). We are in the age of Grace and we are *not* to carry that out. That’s pretty clear.
Furthermore, the ones who *were* supposed to carry it out, are no longer granted sovereignty by God, Himself. They will not gain that back again, until the Kingdom Age arrives and the Scepter, which has departed from Israel, will be given back to it, once again. Until that time, we are in the Age of Grace.
You said — “The Christian God has ordered the killing of children and innocent people before, according to the Old Testament. So, it would not be out of character for him to do it again, and that is why my question is a fair one.”
—
You were asking, in the prior question, about doing some unrighteous things. I basically said that nothing unrighteous would be done by God, because of His character and who He is.
And, keep in mind that all people are *already condemned* and are already under the “death sentence”. In other words, to *die* by God’s command is not an after-thought of the moment. It’s a finished and concluded judgement, already handed down. It’s done.
In other words, the question you ask, right off the bat is wrong. There are *no innocent people* that exists on this earth — anywhere. So, it’s a question that does not apply to a person alive, anywhere at any time. But, with that understanding I can go on and explain about God’s forebearance and about when He does carry out judgment here and now.
So, continuing..., given that everyone is guilty and already judged — the “timing” of your “sentence” is irrelevant. You could die today, tomorrow or ten, twenty or more years from now. The timing does not change the “death sentence” you are currently under.
Therefore, for God to carry out this sentence and “when” He does it, is entirely in His own province and judicial right to do so. When you keep that in mind, then the *real question* is — “Why hasn’t God already killed me??!” I mean, He should have done it *already*. So, why is He waiting? Why am I not dead already?
Well, He’s waiting out of His mercy towards many people.
HOWEVER, there have been groups of people that even test God’s patience, because of their sin and immorality being *so great* — that God will not hold off and “forebear” the judgment that should have been given *immediately* (but wasn’t — out of God’s mercy).
And this was the case with the peoples in question. By God’s own words, He says that He waited and their sin grew and grew to be to the point where He could overlook it no longer. And that’s when He ordered these things to be done.
It was also like that with Sodom and Gomorrah. Their sins were so great that He basically had to destroy it, instead of forebearing their sins and waiting until Judgement Day to judge each and every one according to the actions they carried out in their lives on earth. In that case, their sins “cried out to heaven” they were so great.
So it was with these peoples.
All, I can say is that it’s a good thing that God has us living in this current Age of Grace, because many have said that we are like another Sodom and Gomorrah here, in this country, something that *demands* immediate judgement. However, we’re coming into that judgement soon, as the whole world is moving to that point, so I believe that judgement (of the U.S.) is on its way, with the rest of the world.
Watch for some more deaths coming your way soon...
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