Posted on 05/04/2007 1:01:09 PM PDT by stm
A horrifying video showing a 17-year-old Kurdish girl being stoned to death for having a relationship with a Sunni Muslim boy has made its way onto the Web, drawing outrage and condemnation from international human rights groups.
The graphic video, posted on YouTube, shows Du’a Khalil Aswad, a member of a minority Kurdish religious group called Yezidi, being stoned and kicked in the streets of Bashika, a predominantly Kurdish town near the norther capital of Mosul.
The stoning happened last month but only came to light Thursday when the video was posted on YouTube.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
I am not ashamed of Jesus's words and the problems prevented by going back to not being ashamed of Law would far outweight any negative.
God promises that the death penalty is a reliable deterrent:
* "So you shall put away the evil from Israel. And all the people shall hear and fear, and no longer act presumptuously." Deut. 17:12-13
Little to none.. gang warfare, no Clinton sex scandels, no abortion, no illegal immigration, no murders... yeah I would be so ashamed of that... no need for gun laws.. etc..
Yeah, probable lose your Sunday Walmart shopping.. so tough..
Ok, stop putting words in my mouth again... I said very clearly that Christians are to give place to wrath... then I very clearly explained where that "Place to wrath" was.. government authorities.. I backed up scripturally... you went weird on me.
Lets look at the commandments time line.. from "the time of Adam"..
Before the Flood
After the Flood
1st Command:
"Be fruitful and multiply... have dominion... over every living thing that moves on the earth." Gen. 1:28
1st Command:
"Be fruitful and multiply... And the fear of you... shall be... on all that move on the earth..." Gen. 9:1-2
2nd Command:
"Of every tree... you may freely eat; but... of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat..." Gen. 1:29
2nd Command"
"Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you... But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is its blood." Gen. 9:3-4
3rd Command (Death penalty forbidden):
"Whoever kills Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold." Gen. 4:15
3rd Command: (Death penalty commanded):
"Whoever sheds man's blood, by man his blood shall be shed... Gen. 9:6
These were the only three commands given to mankind before the flood, and the only three commands given to mankind after the flood and before Israel's covenant of circumcision.
You whole arguement is based on destroying the commandments.. it doesn't matter what age you say we are in or anything.. you destroy it when you say not to observe it, and as earlier pointed out, I am NOT talking about the 600 so called "Ritual Decalogue" you threw in to be cutesy. I am talking about the 10 commandments... the gift that Moses offered from God...
Did God change? Nope.. Job found that answer out right quick.. I am talking about what Jesus clearly describes Matthew 19:16-19
YOU talk as though God was a bad God in the Old Testament but that now in the New, He is a much nicer God, as though He has gone through a rite of passage. Something you completely hammer
Yes — you are definitely a star traveler — weeee-ooooh-ahhhh!
Very simply — there is no stoning in the 10 Commandments...
You’ll find the “stoning” in those 613 Commandments. Since you were talking about stoning, hence the list of the 613 Commandments.
You know very well what I’m talking about, too — as I said the laws for national and divinely-sovereign Israel, versus God’s universal law for all. Stoning is *not* in God’s universal law to all.
You said — “Ok, stop putting words in my mouth again... I said very clearly that Christians are to give place to wrath... then I very clearly explained where that “Place to wrath” was.. government authorities.. I backed up scripturally... you went weird on me.”
—
You were the one who wanted to back up the so-called “law” of stoning, not me...
You said — “These were the only three commands given to mankind before the flood, and the only three commands given to mankind after the flood and before Israel’s covenant of circumcision.”
—
I have no idea what the point of what you’re saying is.
My statement that you’re quoting is the following —
“And Paul was talking about the result of the law (which is the universal law of God; not the specific laws given to “national and divinely-granted sovereign Israel) — and that result is death, which has been from the time of Adam. That death is the judgement of God. The violation of this (universal) law of God is not a resulting “stoning” to death, but the death which results from God’s judgement from the time of Adam.”
The universal law of God applies to all of mankind. The law that is for national and divinely-sovereign Israel is just for them. Since that Israel does not exist today, those laws cannot be applied or enforced. But the universal laws of God still apply and they do result in the judgement of God, that being death. We only come into “life” by faith in the Messiah of Israel, in the same way that the Apostle Paul described that Abraham did.
Post #121 was not me; you’ve got the wrong person; it was “ LowOiL”
This is actually a very good point, and touches upon one of the reasons I originally saw fit to post in this thread. Many Christians, in my experience, seem to be quite unaware of just how different their god's character is to that of their imagining. It turns out he's not exactly the lovey dovey big grandpa in the sky that many Christians in the modern world believe him to be. I think you have helped me prove that fairly well.
You are definitely the epitome of the person who is described in the Bible as having rejected God.
Well, I have rejected one particular twisted version of God, that's for sure.
You said — “You whole arguement is based on destroying the commandments.. it doesn’t matter what age you say we are in or anything.. you destroy it when you say not to observe it, and as earlier pointed out, I am NOT talking about the 600 so called “Ritual Decalogue” you threw in to be cutesy. I am talking about the 10 commandments... the gift that Moses offered from God...”
—
Okay, if we’re now dispensing with the stoning part and you’re not including that in the “law” for the Gentiles (or, as I was also saying, not for this age, the dispensation of Grace), and if we’re not talking about how long to grow your beard and whether milk should be with meat and where the mezuza should be — then we can get down to talking about the 10 Commandments.
But, before we *dispense* with these so easily, one must ask *how* we are able to dispense with them? In doing that, one has to first recognize that there were indeed “laws” which were from God, but only directed towards a particular group of people and it was only meant for them.
Furthermore, one would then have to ask why aren’t the Jews (who are “in the land” today) following those laws? Well, to be able to adequately answer that, one would *have to* factor in two other things. One thing is that this was directed towards *national and divinely-sovereign Israel* and not just to a collection of group of Jews. For one thing, there also has to be a Temple in place there and there is not one there. That knocks out a lot of those laws, right off the bat.
Secondly, one would also have to factor in the “dispensations”, as things change (in respect to mankind, but not in respect to God). That age, that the Jews were in, was the dispensation of the Law. We have now gone into the dispensation of Grace, later, we will be in the dispensation of the Kingdom (i.e., Christ’s Millennial Reign).
The fact that God removed the Scepter of (national and divinely-sovereign) Israel, is relevant and that moved us into the Age (or dispensation) of Grace.
Once again, from looking at a simple definition above — we see the following...
C. I. Scofield states, (THE NEW SCOFIELD STUDY BIBLE, NIV, Oxford Univ. Press., New York, 1967, p. 3):
“A dispensation is a period of time during which man is tested in respect to his obedience to some specific revelation of the will of God.
Three important concepts are implied in this definition:
(1) a deposit of divine revelation concerning God’s will, embodying what God requires of man as to his conduct
(2) man’s stewardship of this divine revelation, in which he is responsible to obey it
(3) a time-period, often called an ‘age,’ during which this divine revelation is dominant in the testing of man’s obedience to God.
Now, what is happening, over the course of history, is that God is providing to mankind all the “dispensations” as an example to him (for eternity after) which *disproves* all of mankind’s objections — in trying to ignore the condition of sin in mankind. That’s the purpose of the dispensations. Each dispensation has ended in *failure* on the part of makind. Each dispensation is a test for man’s responsibility, given to him for that age. And in each case, mankind has failed. And likewise, in this particular age of Grace, mankind has once again failed (Salvation hasn’t failed, God hasn’t failed, Jesus Christ hasn’t failed — but mankind has failed in his response and responsibility in the Age of Grace.)
Now, the interesting thing, is that *also* in the Age of the Kingdom of God on this earth, with Christ ruling and reigning over all the nations — this — will *also* be a *failure* on the part of mankind. It’s very interesting that in the *7 dispensations* (not counting the one for the “law” — twice — since that has been split in two parts) — in each one mankind has failed. What this does is prove God’s Word, in that, in mankind, the heart is desperately wicked. It continues to be — even — in the Millennial Kingdom, when Christ is ruling and reigning.
It’s only with dispensationalism, that you get the true picture about God’s plan for the world and mankind, all the way through the Kingdom Age, and then, after that, into the “ages to come”(i.e., “eternity”, as it’s called by some) — which are unspecified by God, at this time.
God doesn’t change during these dispensations. The “test” for mankind does change and different things are shown, as a result. God remains the same, and mankind keeps failing all the tests.
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So, having said that about dispensations, how about the Ten Commandments. Well, not even all those apply to everyone. Okay..., just one. The one that was made for national and divinely-sovereign Israel (and the Jew) is the Sabbath. That’s not one for the Gentile or Christian. It’s specifically for the Jew.
Ezekiel 20:12 — “Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them.”
There are three signs of the Covenant between God and the Jews —
(1) Circumcision a sign between God and Jews —
10 This is My covenant which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: Every male child among you shall be circumcised;
11 and you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between Me and you. (Genesis 17:10-11)
(2) Passover blood a sign between God and Jews —
13 Now the blood shall be a sign for you on the houses where you are. And when I see the blood, I will pass over you; and the plague shall not be on you to destroy you when I strike the land of Egypt.
14 So this day shall be to you a memorial; and you shall keep it as a feast to the Lord throughout your generations. You shall keep it as a feast by an everlasting ordinance. (Exodus 12:13-14)
(3) Sabbath a sign between God and Jews —
12 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying,
13 “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you.
14 You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people.
15 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.
17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’ “ (Exodus 31:12-17)
And...
12 Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them. (Ezekiel 20:12)
—
So, we’re down to 9 Commandments — actually — for that which applies to mankind. Don’t worry, I’m not trying to whittle down the 10 Commandments as insignificant or not important or not God’s law. All ten are, but not all are to apply to Christians (specifically, not the Sabbath). The rest are.
Thus, if we are talking about the “9 Commandments” — I’m in line with you there (just forget about the stoning part).
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And then — “Did God change? Nope.. Job found that answer out right quick.. I am talking about what Jesus clearly describes Matthew 19:16-19”
Let’s look at that, then —
Matthew 19:16-26
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “’You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’
19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ “
20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”
21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”
26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
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The first thing I noticed was that Jesus whittle down the 10 Commandments even more than I did. I only took it to 9.
But, that aside, what is the context here and what is the purpose of what Jesus is saying. We see that Jesus is talking about being saved. See the following —
21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
“If you want to be perfect” — because *being perfect* is what is required for being in the Kingdom of Heaven, as Jesus was saying. That’s why the Apostles were *astonished*!! They knew no one could be perfect! (”all have sinned...”).
You see, the Apostle *got the message immediately* that Jesus was saying —
25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”
Yes, they knew that from what Jesus said that *on one could be saved*!!
That’s why Jesus answered them with his statement —
26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
That’s because Jesus knew that in the plan of God for eternity past to the present, that Salvation was to be found — *not in the law* (as the law only provides for sin to abound) — but in faith in Jesus as the Messiah of Israel (in the same way that the Apostle Paul talks about Abraham having that same kind of faith). So, with God all things are possible. What is *impossible* for man to do (and the Apostles knew that), God has provided the way, through Jesus Christ. That’s what the Apostles were to find out soon.
Thus, this is not about the keeping of the Law, but rather about how the Law *convicts* and how the law *causes death* and how the law *cannot save* (hence the Apostles are “astonished”). No, the law is to make sin abound, so that the way can be pointed to Jesus Christ as savior for all.
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One additional thought here — when Jesus says the following —
Matthew 5:17-20
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus was talking about all 613 of the Commandments that were listed above. So, Jesus was not simply talking about the Ten Commandments — He was referring to all 613 of the Commandments. And He said to those people that if their “righteousness” did not exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees (and they were following those 613 Commandments), then “you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.”
However, what we know, as Christians, is that we are in the Kingdom of Heaven, by virtue of the Grace extended to us from God, through Jesus Christ, His Son and our faith in Him as the Messiah of Israel.
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So, did God change? No, He didn’t. God’s testing of mankind over the different dispensations has changed. We can see that through the various ones, as mankind has failed each one. God moves on to the next “test” and sees if we meet up to that one. God’s the same, through all the dispensations and all the tests that He presents to mankind.
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And then, you said — “YOU talk as though God was a bad God in the Old Testament but that now in the New, He is a much nicer God, as though He has gone through a rite of passage. Something you completely hammer.”
—
Perhaps that’s your perception of what you’re reading. The fact that God presents different “tests” to mankind over the different ages — is not an indication of God changing. It’s simply mankind failing one test after another, and God moves on to the next test. You “read” that as someone trying to say that God is changing. I’ve never said that — you’re making it out to be so, through — through your insistence that I’ve said so.
Another thing you confuse is what is directed to *certain people* at *certain times*. God does not deal with every people and every group the same way. God doesn’t deal with national Israel and the Jews the same way He does with the Gentiles. That doesn’t make Him a different God, but simply one that chooses to operate differently with different groups. And we can see that God chose Israel to be a very special and distinct group, set apart from all other groups.
Another group that God treats differently is the Church (i.e., the body of Christ). So, we have three distinct groups that God treats differently from one another — the Jews of national Israel, the Gentiles and the Church. You have to keep them distinct from one another and understand which group God is speaking to when you read the Bible. Each one can have different requirements and different commands from God — *not meant for the other*.
It’s your misunderstanding of these different groups and God’s requirements for each one — that leads you to those kinds of statements above.
You said — “This is actually a very good point, and touches upon one of the reasons I originally saw fit to post in this thread. Many Christians, in my experience, seem to be quite unaware of just how different their god’s character is to that of their imagining. It turns out he’s not exactly the lovey dovey big grandpa in the sky that many Christians in the modern world believe him to be. I think you have helped me prove that fairly well.”
—
Of course God has not changed from how His character is displayed *all* through the Bible (either in the Old Testament or the New). We do have, however, the “advocate” on our behalf, who intercedes for us (with God the Father), and that is Jesus (the Son of God), the Messiah of Israel. He pleads our case (for us), if we are one of His (i.e., a Christian). And God the Father, accepts the sacrifice that Jesus offered (of Himself) for us. That provides the righteousness that does not exist in and of ourselves, but only through Jesus’ righteousness which is imputed to us (i.e., “declared to be so” as a “judicial order” making it so). And as that is so — we are *no longer enemies of God* — having gained the righteousness of Christ in us.
All the rest — are *still enemies of God* in this world and there is *good reason* to be extremely fearful of that, because judgement can be severe, fast and sure.
There’s no good reason to shield anyone from the terrible nature of God when He dispenses judgement and when He condemns sin which is in everyone. There’s plenty to be fearful of there and with *good reason*.
So, I guess it depends on which side of the fence you stand on, as to whether there is something to be extremely fearful from an all-powerful and righteous God who will mete out punishment of the severest kind for any kind of sin.
In my case, there’s no doubt that it pays to be on the side that Jesus is on.
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You then said — “Well, I have rejected one particular twisted version of God, that’s for sure.”
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It’s the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that we are presented with. This is the Creator God of the universe and also the One who sent His Son, Jesus, the Messiah of Israel, as the means for the salvation of any who would avail themselves of it.
Those who choose not to, only have themselves to look at, as to why they don’t...
Tulsa! Oh no!
I’ll just have to find comfort in knowing that the
real final destination for all of us is heaven.
Praise God!
Praise God!
Praise God!
LOL, now what’s the deal with Tulsa... :-)
You were the one who wanted to back up the so-called “law” of stoning, not me...
Nope I want to back up the death penalty, be it stoning or electric chair. It is late, so I will not link like I like to on these verses, but you know how to find them (as I do)..
I want to point out that directly after the 10 commandment were offered, just a few verses below them is the penalties that directly relate to the 10 commandments.
* "He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death." Ex. 21:12
* "He who strikes his father or his mother shall surely be put to death." Ex. 21:15
* "He who kidnaps a man... shall surely be put to death." Ex. 21:16
* "He who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death." Ex. 21:17
* "[If an unborn baby is killed] you shall give life for life." Ex. 21:23
It is not plausible to suppose that God contradicted Himself just a few sentences after delivering the Ten Commandments to Moses.
I don't care to get in a hang up with you over whether the manner of death was stoning or a millstone tied around their necks. Dead is dead.
2am bookmark for futher digestion and comment... post 131.. Good night ST... catch ya on rebound.
You said — “I want to point out that directly after the 10 commandment were offered, just a few verses below them is the penalties that directly relate to the 10 commandments.”
—
I see that we’re right back to the 613 now — once again. You just can’t get away from those 613 Commandments, can you?
First you say you’re not talking about the 613 Commandments, which were given to national Israel and only the 10 Commandments apply to us (which I pointed out were really only 9 Commandments, as the Sabbath does not pertain to us and was not given to us, but to national Israel) — and now — you add back in some of the 613 again.
Boy..., take them out, put them back in again, take some more out, put a few more back in again. Where does it stop? Are we on a see-saw, or is it that you just can’t make up your mind?
Note that the 10 Commandments are in the 613 already, and you add back in some more of the 613, by the other ones you’ve listed.
Once again, those 613 were given to national Israel and since God has removed its divinely instituted sovereignty, that no longer applies to them (at least not right now, but it will later). And none of those 613 of those commandments applied to us, aside from the 9 Commandments that I’ve already mentioned, which applies to everyone (including the Jews of today).
And up above in the last post you were saying — “Ok, stop putting words in my mouth again... I said very clearly that Christians are to give place to wrath... then I very clearly explained where that “Place to wrath” was.. government authorities.. I backed up scripturally... you went weird on me.”
So, you were saying that it was basically in the “government’s hands” to carry out God’s authority. Well, in case you haven’t noticed the government has *no obligation* to carry out any of the 613 Commandments that were given to national Israel. On the other hand, the government *may* carry out whatever laws it makes and place on them whatever penalties it deems necessary to preserve order and to promote harmony. The government, in case you haven’t noticed has no obligation to carry out any of the laws which are in the 613 of national Israel.
In fact, the government *rarely* ever carries out those laws — at all. And it’s unlikely that it *ever* will.
Let’s just look and see...
First one mentioned — “He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death.” Well, that doesn’t happen. Most of the western nations don’t even have a death penalty at all, much less one for striking a man and him dying. In the U.S. where we do have one, it’s doubtful this would ever be the case. No, the most that may happen is 20-30 years (probably less), some time off for good behavior, and then back out and on the streets again.
Second one mentioned — “He who strikes his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.” Well, that one is so hilarious to think it would ever make it into a court of law for the death penalty, much less make it into court for anything more than a fine and some “anger management classes”. Second one down and dead...
Third one mentioned — “He who kidnaps a man... shall surely be put to death.” Ha! When is the last time you heard of that one happening? If a person did get convicted for kidnapping, maybe about 10 years is all that’s going to happen, probably even less.
Fourth one mentioned — “He who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.” Well on that one, we might lose 1/4 to 1/2 of the population of this country in short order. I guess that’s a good thing that doesn’t happen, or else it would have a tremendous effect on our economy. The government wouldn’t take kindly to that one.
Fifth one mentioned — “[If an unborn baby is killed] you shall give life for life.” Well, that one (killing unborn babies) is happening at the rate of 46 million killed babies every year worldwide; about 1.5 million killed babies in the U.S. alone, each year. I can see that this one is going *nowhere* either.
So much for your “governent justice” theory. It seems to be of *no effect* — not being enacted and never will be enacted.
And the reason why it *never will be enacted* (i.e., “never, never and never), is basically because we’re *not* in the “age of law” (in that particular dispensation), but we’re in the age of grace (that particular dispensation). It’s a different set of demands and obligations that God has laid down for us, in this particular dispensation and it’s not carrying out the law, as Jesus said would be done and would be fulfilled (at the time of the Kingdom Age).
Now, you can squawk all you want, add in as many of the 613 Commandments you want, take out as many of the 613 Commandments you want — and it’s never ever going to happen in the Age of Grace. Ever!
It will happen in the Kingdom Age, however. That’s why I say you simply have absolutely *no understanding* of the different “dispensations” and what God has put forth as the “test” for mankind for each of those dispensations. Because of that, you’ve totally confused national Israel, with the church and its obligations and also confused it with the government and its obligations in this Age of Grace.
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You continued and said — “It is not plausible to suppose that God contradicted Himself just a few sentences after delivering the Ten Commandments to Moses.”
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God didn’t contradict Himself. He gave those as part of the 613 Commandments to national Israel, to be carried out under God’s divinely-granted sovereignty to Israel. No contradiction there.
And today, that Israel has had its sovereignty removed by God and it will not be granted to them again, until the Kingdom Age. Thus, the difference between the dispensation of Grace versus the dispensation of the Kingdom.
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Finally you said — “I don’t care to get in a hang up with you over whether the manner of death was stoning or a millstone tied around their necks. Dead is dead.”
—
Well, for one thing God has already enforced the death penalty. That’s been in effect for “sin” since the time of Adam. Nothing has changed for thousands of years on that one. And that’s what Paul talks about in regards to the law and in regards to sin and to death. He is not talking about stoning or death by government or death by millstone. He’s talking about *none* of that. Paul is talking about the death that sin produces as a judgement from God,for that sin. That is *apart* from any legal obligations to carry out some penalty by some part of the 613 Commandments which national Israel is obligated to carry out.
And in terms of any “government” carrying it out — in case you haven’t noticed — that is *not* being done either. So, national Israel isn’t doing it, our government isn’t doing it, the rest of the world isn’t doing it.
Well, I wonder why that is? Well, it could be that we’re in the age of Grace (that dispensation) and because national Israel has had its sovereignty removed by God until the Kingdom age.
Oh, by the way, I would not be “holding my breath” waiting for it to happen either. You might die in the process of not breathing. It’s not going to happen until the Kingdom age arrives....
With 'friends' like that, who needs enemies!
We should give the 'good guys' (whoever we think they are) all they money and equipment we feel they need, and then LET THEM DO THE FREEKING FIGHTING ON THE GROUND!
Get our soldiers out of that hell hole unless we need them to FIGHT AND QUICKLY OCCUPY territory that will THEN BE QUICKLY TURNED TO "GOOD" LOCALS TO MANAGE!
Well, at least those Yezidis don’t go shooting Americans... :-)
On the “glass house” matter.
Though the specifics of many punishments for “sins” commanded in the old testament, are not considered biblical commands, with that specificity, to “Christians”, many of the “sins” that those old testament punishments referred to did continue to carry equal weight of “sinfulness” to “Christians” and Jews, and many punishments relative to those sins, in the early centuries of Christianity and up through the late Medieval age would be considered “inhumane” or “brutal” in the context of most “western” Jewish and Christian societies today.
The larger difference is that Islamic fundamentalist movements today seek the protection of or restoration of 7th century Islamic culture; a 7th century culture that we reject more than, but just as well as we would reject domination today by 7th century European “Christian” religious culture, and it’s influence on “law and punishment” with respect to “sin”.
The larger difference is that Islamic fundamentalists seek to restore a “pure” Islam and a pure culture founded on Islam, which was the culture that destroyed their “Empire” because its brutality and domination was (1)rejected by the west, and (2)that rejection led to the crusades which led to the Renaissance, which led to the “reformation” and the Enlightenment, which steadily moved western culture from its own 7th century rigidities - a process that the Shia Mullahs of Iran, the Wahabi clerics of Saudi Arabia, the Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamic fundamentalists seek to prevent from happening within Islam and within cultures dominated by Islam.
I am not saying this to advocate for or promote “Islam”, only to layout the rejectionist mode (rejection of internal critical debate of Islamic thought and rejection of “secular” authority) that all modern fundamentalist Islamic movements have as the starting point of their own brand of Islamic political thought. They seek a return to the 7th and 8th centuries, as the “high point” of Islamic thought.
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