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They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious Bigotry, alive and well today
Saundra Duffy

Posted on 05/04/2007 5:46:36 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy

They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious bigotry, alive and well today

May 4, 2007 - by Saundra Duffy-Hawkins

“I wouldn’t vote for a Mormon for dogcatcher, much less President of the United States!” There’s a lot of that kind of hateful rhetoric going around since Mitt Romney decided to throw his hat in the ring – as if Mormons are some kind of hideous evil monsters. The loudest anti-Mormon shouts, sad to say, are coming from America’s so-called “Christian right”. How can Mitt Romney hope to get a fair shake in this spiritually polluted atmosphere?

There was another man running for President who faced the same dilemma – John F. Kennedy – only he was the target of anti-CATHOLIC bigotry. In his 1960 speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, JFK said the following: “. . .I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end - where all men and all churches are treated as equal - where man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice - where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind - and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their words in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.” John F. Kennedy Library & Museum (Speeches, 1960). By the way, if you listen to the audio version of JFK’s speech, you will hear the hurt and frustration in his voice and the unfair treatment surely must have caused many a sleepless night.

Fast forward to 2007 where JFK might as well have been “whistlin’ Dixie”. The hostility toward Mormons today, in my opinion, is even worse than that suffered by JFK. Although it is said that JFK lost about a million votes to religious intolerance, Romney stands to lose even more if the anti-Mormon evangelicals hang together.

According to Media Matters for America - “. . . a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media” - FOX News is not reporting accurately on the level of evangelical hostility to the Romney run. Media Matters for America points out that among evangelical leaders rejecting Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson (National Day of Prayer and Focus on the Family, respectively), the Southern Baptist Convention (collectively), Pat Robertson (Christian Broadcasting Network), and Dr. D. James Kennedy (Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Florida). “Among many conservative evangelicals – who comprise a significant part of the Republican base – Mormonism is considered an un-Christian cult.” Media Matters for America (2007)

While stumping in Florida, a man in the audience stood up during the Q&A portion and said the following to Romney: “You, sir, you’re a pretender. You do not know the Lord. You’re a Mormon.” Media Matters for America (2007). This is the kind of un-American, disrespectful treatment Mitt Romney will apparently have to endure throughout the entire campaign – as if just being a Mormon is reason enough to open the floodgates for free flow of pent-up hatred and vindictiveness.

For the record, the Mormon bashers know full well that the official name of Romney’s church is “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” and the members should rightfully be called “members of the LDS Church” but the words “Mormon” and “Mormonism” have an aura of negativity so they prefer to use the “M” word as if it were dirty.

Less than five minutes cruising around the official LDS website (LDS.org) will show anyone who’s interested that the Church is a Christian organization, with Jesus Christ at the Head. There are no paid clergy – all are volunteers. Humanitarian aid is legendary. Members of the LDS Church believe in strong family values; they are patriotic, they are law-abiding upstanding citizens of their community. Many LDS young men right out of high school go on two-year missions – you know, the guys on bikes – and during their mission they don’t date, read newspapers, go to movies or watch TV; but rather they dedicate two years of their lives to serving others. Many women go on missions as well, and couples, only theirs is 18 months in length but the obligations are basically the same. Most members do not shop or go out to eat on Sundays – reminiscent of the good old days when shops and stores were closed in obedience to the Commandment, “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy”. If they can help it, LDS Church members do not work on Sundays, either, preferring to spend the day at church and with their families. Church members are encouraged to store up a year’s supply of food and water so they will be able to care for their families in the event of an emergency. The LDS Church believes in self-sufficiency and self-reliance but in the event of a financial hardship the Church distributes food and supplies through their welfare (Bishop’s Storehouse) program. Members of the LDS Church do not drink alcohol nor do they use illicit drugs; they do not drink coffee and tea. A Mormon in good standing, therefore, will not be found in a drunken stupor puking her guts out at 3 a.m. anywhere in the world. Furthermore, members of the church are encouraged to dress modestly, be polite and courteous. And members of the LDS Church are faithful tithe payers. Come on, people, what’s not to love?

So what on earth is their beef, the anti-Mormon zealots? Why is there such disdain for the LDS Church and its members? In Hugh Hewitt’s book, “Mormon in the White House?” he states his thesis that the fierce anti-Mormon sentiment among main-stream Christians stems from one or two or all three of the following factors (in order of importance):

1) “It is just too weird.

2) “A Mormon president will supercharge Mormons’ missionary work.

3) “If there is a Mormon in the White House, Salt Lake City will call the shots, at least on the biggest issues.” Hewitt (2007, p. 221-227)

Hugh Hewitt has written an exquisite book about the Romney campaign and overcoming the “Mormon problem.” It’s a good read and I highly recommend it. Of the three problem points listed in the previous paragraph, Hewitt believes – unless some unforeseen blunder destroys his chances – none of the three is insurmountable for Mitt Romney. (Plus, he has the best hair.)

Well, I’m no Hugh Hewitt, not even close; he’s an icon on the conservative radio talk show circuit. Hewitt could talk circles around me (I’ve seen him in action in Sacramento); he’s brilliant; he’s well educated, well read, no doubt a genius, plus he’s kind of cute. I’m basically a “nobody” – an overweight grandma – but after having researched for this paper, I have come to a totally different conclusion as to why there is such in-your-face angst over Romney’s religion of choice: It’s all about money, power and control (in that order). I think they’re (the evangelical religious bigots, that is) scared half to death and are revving up their attacks, not to save souls, but to save their reputations (which if tarnished would lead to financial ruin).

As I said, all one must do is browse around the LDS official web site to see what the LDS Church believes and stands for. Any reasonable person would conclude that Mormons are not evil monsters at all. In fact, they are God fearing, Christ believing, Holy Ghost following people going about doing good. “You will know them by their fruit” and the LDS has plenty of fruit and they are willing to share.

Earlier, I stated that some high-powered ministries have publicly condemned Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson, the Southern Baptist Convention, Pat Robertson, and Dr. D. James Kennedy – just to name a few. There are hoards of others. Sunday after Sunday, preachers, evangelists, reverends and ministers from all Christian denominations pound the pulpit with anti-Mormon rhetoric. I heard the message loud clear when I was a Baptist and when I tiptoed through evangelical/Pentecostal territories. Was I ever miffed when I later learned for myself the Gospel truth about the LDS Church.

Just think about it, please. If Dr. D. James Kennedy, for example, who wrote the book, The Wolves Among Us, were to admit he’d been wrong in labeling the LDS Church a “cult” that leads unwary ignorant people astray (to hell), what would become of his multi-million-dollar ministry? Suffice it to say, there’s big money to be had by sale of books, tapes, CD’s, videos, and other anti-Mormon propaganda, not to mention speaking engagements and world-wide religious crusades. We’re talking trillions, all told. I realize the anti-Mormon aspect of these ministries is but a small portion of the business, but if the truth came out, that they had been using falsehoods about the LDS Church as a cash cow, their entire empires could tumble.

The ABC News program 20/20 aired on March 23, 2007, exposed the lavish lifestyles of some of the top evangelical preachers – million dollar mansions and personal jets. ABC News - 20/20 (2007) (Again, the LDS Church has no paid clergy.)

It’s nothing new. Severe harassment and persecution has been the lot of the LDS Church since it’s inception in 1820 when a 14-year-old boy named Joseph Smith saw visions and communed with heavenly beings. Rather than discuss the spiritual aspects of the LDS Church, however, let’s stick to facts of history. Taken from a college-level early American history textbook, Joseph Smith, upon experiencing the visions and visitations, believed “that God had work for me to do, and that my name should be for good and evil among all nations, kindreds and tongues.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 292). The textbook continues, “They were met with hostility virtually everywhere they went . . . . As the movement gathered momentum, hundreds of people joined the church; entire congregations of churches of other faiths joined . . .” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 293)

During the dark time of American history when slavery was flourishing and when Native Americans were forced from their lands, the pioneers of the LDS Church also suffered at the hands of unscrupulous politicians, governmental leaders, and angry hate-filled mobs. “In the face of relentless persecution, Joseph Smith, the founder of the church, had led his flock to Illinois. There they had established the town of Nauvoo, which by the mid-1840’s had become the largest city in Illinois with over 15,000 people. . . In June 1844, a mob of non-Mormons broke into the jail where Smith was being held and killed both him and his brother. . .The Mormons abandoned Nauvoo in the spring of 1846 as anti-Mormons pounded the town with cannon, destroying the Great Temple. In a well-coordinated migration, 15,000 Mormons moved in stages to the Great Salt Lake.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 334-335) Many walked all the way and many died along the way, including innocent babes.

Joseph Smith at one time was tarred and feathered by a mob. No jury, no trial, no judge – and they had planned to castrate him, too. On October 27, 1838, the then governor of Missouri issued an “extermination order”: “The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the State if necessary . . .” Far West History (n.d.) Please note that the order called for exterminating “Mormons” making no distinction between men, women and children, and indeed women and children were subject to the extermination order.

In an event known in LDS history as “the Haun’s Mill Massacre”, precipitated by the extermination order, 30 to 40 LDS families were surprised by some 200 to 250 militia. After the smoke cleared, seventeen LDS people lay dead including a ten-year-old boy. Thirteen LDS members were wounded including a woman and a seven-year-old boy. “A few Missourians returned the next day and took plunder.” LDS FAQ (n.d.) No Missouri militiamen were killed but three were wounded. Just a few years earlier, the LDS folk who died that day had been members of other churches - Congregational or Methodist or Baptist or Presbyterian.

In l976, Governor Bond of Missouri officially rescinded the extermination order and presented apologies for the “unfortunate developments” it caused. Quoting from Governor Bond’s Executive Order: “WHEREAS, Governor Boggs’ order clearly contravened the rights to life, liberty, property and religious freedom as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, as well as the Constitution of the State of Missouri; and . . . Expressing on behalf of all Missourians our deep regret for the injustice and undue suffering rescind Executive Order Number 44 dated October 27, 1838, issued by Governor W. Boggs. . .” Far West History (n.d.) The individuals who harassed, abused, and even murdered Mormons in cold blood were never tried for their crimes.

I read Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.’s Letter from Birmingham Jail and it really touched my heart. There he was, suffering for the Lord in jail, and these religious leaders with highfalutin titles on the outside wrote an open letter (“A Call for Unity”) in which they criticize King’s tactics and basically blame King for the racial turmoil of the time. Though you can tell King is upset and hurt by the attack – made worse because he’s stuck in jail and can’t confront the religious leaders face-to-face – his response is gentle genius. “I wish you had commended the Negro sit-inners and demonstrators of Birmingham for their sublime courage, their willingness to suffer, and their amazing discipline in the midst of great provocation. One day the South will recognize its real heroes.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 881)

King has a few choice words for the Church, too: “If today’s church does not recapture the sacrificial spirit of the early church, it will lose its authenticity, forfeit the loyalty of millions, and be dismissed as an irrelevant social club with no meaning for the twentieth century. Every day I meet young people whose disappointment with the church has turned into outright disgust.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 880)

King signs off with “Yours for the cause of Peace and Brotherhood”.

There’s an eerie commonality between what JFK and MLK endured at the hands of the religious bigots of their day and what Mitt Romney is facing today. I hope and pray that Romney will be able to fend off these undeserved attacks from the religious hypocrites with the same grace, dignity and God-inspired resolve displayed by the other two.

A few popular bumper stickers read: “Honk if you love Jesus” and “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven” or “Jesus is my co-pilot”. Yet, apparently, these same bumper-sticker Christians are the ones waging war against Mitt Romney’s run for the Presidency solely on the basis of his chosen faith in a Church that bears the name of the Savior of the world.

References

ABC News - 20/20 (2007). Philanthropic donations come from your heart, but where do they end up? Ex-money manager says "enough!" to secretive Christian Ministry spending. Glenn Ruppel & John Stossel. United States: ABC News.

Ayers, E. L., Gould, L. L., Oshinsky, D. M., & Soderlund, J. R. (2004). American Passages - a history of the United States - Volume I: to 1877 (2nd ed.). Belmont, California: Thomson/Wadsworth.

Barnet, S., & Bedau, H. (2005). Letter from Birmingham Jail. Current Issues and Enduring Questions - a guide to critical thinking and argument, with readings (7th ed., pp. 867-882). Boston and New York: Bedford/St. Martin's.

Far West History. (n.d.). The Extermination Order and how it was rescinded. Retrieved April 28, 2007, from http://www.jwha.info/mmff/exorder.htm

Hewitt, H. (2007). A Mormon in the White House? 10 things every American should know about Mitt Romney. Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing, Inc.

John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum. (1960, September 12). Address of Senator John F. Kennedy to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://www.jfklibrary.org

Lds Faq. (n.d.). What was the Haun's Mill Massacre? Retrieved April 28-2007, 2004, from Brigham Young University Web Site: http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/view.asp?q=57

Media Matters for America. (2007). Fox News whitewashes evangelical hostility to Romney's faith. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://mediamatters.org/items/printable/200702280002


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: boggsforgovernor; cuespookymusic; election; lds; mormon; mormons; romney; whitesalamanderblues
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To: P-Marlowe
Rudy calls himself a Catholic,and being a Catholic, in no way would I vote for him. He has always been a staunch supporter of abortion of any kind,might try to spin it,but planned parenthood loves him. Anybody can call themselves whatever they want but people who are going for the highest office in this country need to be questioned on what they have done and said,especially in the past.But politics has become so ugly and vicious and has divided this country so very much.So many people have forgotten the horror of 911 and the terrorists said that we would give up because we love life to much and can't take the death of our soldiers.And the dems are proving them right.
981 posted on 05/06/2007 11:46:36 PM PDT by red irish (Gods Children in the womb are to be loved too!)
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To: greyfoxx39
Thanks for sharing. He sounds like slime. I hope he was exed as well for doing such things. That is usually what happens when crimes of that magnitude are committed.
982 posted on 05/06/2007 11:50:30 PM PDT by sevenbak (A LIE travels around the world while the TRUTH is still putting on its boots -Winston Churchill)
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To: colorcountry
...God put blacks on earth to represent Satan?

Color, you really should get a new hobby.

983 posted on 05/06/2007 11:52:55 PM PDT by sevenbak (A LIE travels around the world while the TRUTH is still putting on its boots -Winston Churchill)
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To: colorcountry
Sevenbaks answer: Women say prayers all the time in Sacrament meeting. The blessing of the sacrament is a priesthood function though, so no, they don't. It would seem your attempt to pigeonhole the LDS as discriminating would also work against the early Church. Are you sure you want to go there? The LDS do not hold these traditions like the early saints did, but you seem to be wanting us to go back to times of old!

Prayers in Sacrament meeting are different than "prayers over the sacrament." You know this very well and yet your answer was quite deceptive don't you think? Women are not and have never been able to perform the sacramental prayer (as greyfoxx put it - "over the sacrament") and you know it. Do you think it is honest to answer questions in a deceptive way?

Color, you are killing me! Again, where was I deceptive? Read my answer again, I made it clear. I talked specifically about 2 separate things, meeting prayers, and sacrament prayers. Here it is again, in bold so you cant' miss it:

"Women say prayers all the time in Sacrament meeting. The blessing of the sacrament is a priesthood function though, so no, they don't."

I didn't see an answer from you on the NT practices of discrimination BTW. How do you feel about the ancient Church keeping the women silent in the Churches, and only allowing the husbands to inform them on doctrine? This is exactly why I suggested you and others should go down this route, it is fruitless.

984 posted on 05/07/2007 12:01:54 AM PDT by sevenbak (A LIE travels around the world while the TRUTH is still putting on its boots -Winston Churchill)
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To: sevenbak
This is exactly why I suggested you and others should go down this route, it is fruitless.

Oops, make that SHOULDN'T go down this route.

985 posted on 05/07/2007 12:03:44 AM PDT by sevenbak (A LIE travels around the world while the TRUTH is still putting on its boots -Winston Churchill)
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To: greyfoxx39
I just can’t keep up, I need sleep. See ya all tomorrow night, I'm sure there will be another 200-300 more added to the 200 I didn’t finish tonight. (sigh)
986 posted on 05/07/2007 12:08:22 AM PDT by sevenbak (A LIE travels around the world while the TRUTH is still putting on its boots -Winston Churchill)
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To: sevenbak

What amazes me is someone who knows or should have known the true definition to LDS meaning and now assigns the traditional meaning is being disingenuous to me.

To do what a former member knew means they have to contort themselves to speak from the knowledge of the Trinity.

Because now they know what the meaning that the LDS use and the meaning that the Trinity means.

So trying to act ignorance of what the LDS mean and spin the Trinity terms is what I refer to a contortionist.

Myself as a convert I had little adjustment because as a former Trinty believer I only had to refer to the beganning of the Bible where it said in the beganning was the WORD and the WORD was GOD.

So the Lord is the author of all they vocabulary and the meaning of Father and Son has not changed because they are defining words of a family!

Jesus the only begotten had a Heavenly Family and enter earth with a earthly family!:)


987 posted on 05/07/2007 12:09:43 AM PDT by restornu (Elevate Your Thoughts!)
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To: bethtopaz; BlackElk
If you’re a Reagan fan, remember Reagan changed his mind on social issues, also.

It’s a mark of maturity to be able to look honestly at issues in the light of evidence and change one’s mind.


That is a disingenuous comparison. Reagan did not so much as change his mind on the abortion question as he did not realize how broad the "health exemption" would be. (Something akin to how medical marijuana has played out in CA).

More importantly, he tried to repeal the abortion liberalization law WHILE HE WAS STILL IN HIS FIRST TERM, canvassing personally himself. I remember Walter Mondale throwing this out in one of the debates. It is ONLY used by pro-aborts. Needless to say, even the California law was more restrictive tahan Roe v. Wade/Doe v. Bolton. Romney also had the advantage of witnessing 25 years of carnage first. He got to see where it went. He did publicly repent of his misjudgment before his CA reelaction.

Reagan's Christianity (nominally Disciples of Christ, I believe) was more generic and less dogmatic. Mormonism has clear moral guidelines, many of which I respect more than Mitt Romney did during his tenure as governor.

Finally, I respect and admire Reagan. I do not hold him as an idol or as an oracle. I can respect and admire somebody whose values were right before he turned 60 or tried to run for president (e.g. Sam Brownback).
988 posted on 05/07/2007 1:55:01 AM PDT by sittnick (There is no salvation in politics.)
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To: tantiboh; sevenbak; DelphiUser; Saundra Duffy

Transcript
Covenants: Our Bond with the Divine Helping Us “Out of the Pit” Victor L. Ludlow
http://www.byui.edu/Presentations/Transcripts/Devotionals/2004_03_09_Ludlow.htm

Video
The Savior’s Covenant Teachings in Third... Victor Ludlow
http://byubwmv.byu.edu/edweek/2004/VLudlow04.wmv

154 covenants 37 are from the Savior himself!


989 posted on 05/07/2007 2:24:12 AM PDT by restornu (Elevate Your Thoughts!)
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To: sevenbak

I didn’t say it. Your Prophet John Taylor said it. If God tells a PROPHET that blacks represent Satan on earth, then as a Mormon you had better believe God said it....or wouldn’t that make Taylor - other-than-prophet.

Then couldn’t Joseph Smith be other-than-prophet. And what does that make Gordon B. Hinckley?


990 posted on 05/07/2007 5:01:33 AM PDT by colorcountry (“It is wrong to criticize the leaders of the church even if the criticism is true” ~Dallin H.)
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To: sevenbak
You were taking part in the practice of Millet. Answer the question greyfoxx SHOULD have asked.

You simply started out your answer with a dodge. To me it appeared that you were hoping most people wouldn't read farther than the first sentence. I am well versed in the many ways Mormonism presents its "truth."

Women say prayers all the time in Sacrament meeting. The blessing of the sacrament is a priesthood function though, so no, they don't.

991 posted on 05/07/2007 5:39:49 AM PDT by colorcountry (“It is wrong to criticize the leaders of the church even if the criticism is true” ~Dallin H.)
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To: colorcountry
How can you keep women in line if they think they can actually give healing blessings to their own children?

That rings a bell. Haven't I read somewhere that in the early church women did give healing blessings? What else do you recall that women were allowed at one time? I know the Relief Society was recently put under the authority of men after years of the women running it, right?

992 posted on 05/07/2007 5:49:54 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Fred sez "I'm not interested in being the tallest midget in the room.." RUN FRED RUN!)
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To: sevenbak

We’re a week or two behind because of the blizzard in January; we spoke chiefly about the Parable of the Unmerciful Servant.


993 posted on 05/07/2007 5:59:39 AM PDT by tantiboh
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To: Colofornian

“If you’er not open to being convinced, then why do you ever bother to open Scripture or listen to a speaker? Why do you tune into the weatherman if he may not “convince” you, for example, about your opinion of the weather.”

I’m not here to be convinced by you, Colo, nor am I here to convince you. I’m here to refute slander about my faith.

Like my fellow LDS Freepers, I don’t go around bashing others’ religion. I’m here to do what I can to protect the good name of my own.


994 posted on 05/07/2007 6:01:48 AM PDT by tantiboh
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To: restornu

>> I am sorry in order to have a cover up you have to have
>> facts, and we are still wondering about the details I
>> think to say things like that, is only your opinion.

I believe the facts are clear that after the MMM that the priesthood quorums of the Stakes around the area of the MMM would cooperate with the federal investigators in telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. That’s totally unacceptable for a society that believes in obeying, honoring and sustaining the law. That’s totally unacceptable for a people who believed in upholding the US Constitution.

>> It you study history of the Church you will see a
>> pattern and what happen at MMM is foreign to the
>> pattern.

Oh I have studied LDS church history quite extensively. I’ve read just about anything I can find every written by or on or about anyone who has been in the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve. Just read up on what was going on in Utah in the mid 1850s with all the sermons on blood atonement and even the Law of Vengeance. Yes indeed the MMM incident was a one-time tragedy in Mormon history. But the games of coverup continue to this day. For example, they’re still covering up their plagiarisms of the Masons. And they’re pretending to no longer be racist yet they still believe as the most correct book on earth one that says some people got dark skin for being wicked and that some got lighter skin by becoming righteous.

>> So to blame Brigham Young when in the pass he follows
>> the pattern of trusting in the Lord is too accused
>> Brigham Young of not having faith in the Lord.

Brigham Young could’ve required the Brethren in southern Utah to cooperate fully with the federal investigators. He didn’t. The murderers got away with it. Only John D. Lee was ever held accountable.

>> I am convert and was converted by the power of the Holy
>> Spirit so there is nothing technically about it!

If you’re honest you’ll honestly examine what all those good feelings and spiritual experiences really mean. When did the idea get started that these good feelings are absolute proof that the LDS Brethren are right and everyone else is not unless they follow the LDS Brethren? Hmmm it comes from the Brethren. How self-serving this is. And as a result true believing Mormons will not have an open mind when it comes to science or truth. That’s why so many people have a problem with Romney. Personally I think he’d make a good President. But I can see why the mistrust is there.

>> Unless you are one of those who never had a testimony?

Oh yes indeed I had a very strong testimony of Mormonism.

>> Beware of Pride

I’m quite familiar with that talk of President Benson. If I’m wrong on Mormonism then I will repent. Not a day goes by that I don’t wish the Book of Mormon was true.

And that’s the real problem, having enough humility to accept that the Book of Mormon is fictional. The scientific evidence is pretty clear on this. Its no more factual than Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.


995 posted on 05/07/2007 6:14:21 AM PDT by Degaston
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To: Degaston

Correction in typing.

I wrote:

... after the MMM that the priesthood quorums of the Stakes around the area of the MMM would cooperate with the federal investigators ....

It should say:

... after the MMM that NONE of the priesthood quorums of the Stakes around the area of the MMM would cooperate with the federal investigators ....

Sorry about the typo omission.


996 posted on 05/07/2007 6:17:06 AM PDT by Degaston
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To: Saundra Duffy
Bruce R. McConkie rocks.

Actually, it's in a book called Believeing Christ by STEPHEN E. ROBINSON

I should have attributed it when I posted it, Argh!!!
997 posted on 05/07/2007 6:23:02 AM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser; Colofornian; MHGinTN; colorcountry
From my earlier post: Is it Christian belief that God wishes to "build up His kingdom on earth and establish Zion?" State your source for this

How about Daniel 2:37-45: (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dan/2/37-45#37)

My question to you: Is it Christian belief that God wishes to "build up His kingdom on earth and establish Zion?" State your source for this.

Here is the pertinent clause in the oath: "do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in the Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.

Now, if you care to interpret this as referring to the Daniel source, go ahead. Other's interpretation could be that since it states "according to the Law of Consecration in the D & C, and the FIRST recipient of "yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you," is the LDS church, the Kingdom of God and Zion just might relate to something much more recent.

I guess you would claim that "Zion" doesn't relate in any way to the mormon church either.

Which interpretation do you think the clinton/media crime machine will chose?

998 posted on 05/07/2007 6:36:23 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Fred sez "I'm not interested in being the tallest midget in the room.." RUN FRED RUN!)
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To: George W. Bush
It's an open question whether Mormons have any bigger problem with this in towns or regions where they predominate than the other denominations have in their areas.

The question isn't open to those of us who spent many years in the areas that mormons dominate. My area was also heavily catholic, and I never heard of any KOC doings other than their charitable ones.

My father-in-law would not rent any heavy equipment to the local bishop because he caught him cheating on an earlier deal.

999 posted on 05/07/2007 6:50:18 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Fred sez "I'm not interested in being the tallest midget in the room.." RUN FRED RUN!)
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To: Degaston; restornu
When did the idea get started that these good feelings are absolute proof that the LDS Brethren are right and everyone else is not unless they follow the LDS Brethren?

It comes from God. My testimony was not given or even known about by “the brethren”. My first testimony from the Lord was clear and concise and could have come from no one else. Once you accept that the church is true, you see things with a totally different perspective than someone who believes the church to be false. Things that you have a hard time with, I take in stride without pausing, be cause, “It’s true isn’t it? Then what else matters.” (that ‘s from the last conference session)

If I’m wrong on Mormonism then I will repent.

Well, then since it is true, you’d better get started! (Do you see the difference that a different perspective makes?)

Not a day goes by that I don’t wish the Book of Mormon was true.

Well, my FRiend, you are in luck, because it is true!

And that’s the real problem, having enough humility to accept that the Book of Mormon is fictional. The scientific evidence is pretty clear on this. Its no more factual than Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

Man! Somebody sold you their perspective but GOOOOOOOD.

You cannot “Prove” the gospel is true, and you cannot prove it false. It’s designed that way. What, got to you? Somebody sold you some scientific mumbo jumbo and you believed it? “Science is the history of saying we were wrong” – Unknown. God told me it was true. I’ll take his word over yours, and any and every “scientist” in the room telling me that they have a test tube and proved the BOM false.

Faith, that’s what it’s all about. If you want to get “Scientific” then believing that some guy who died 2,000 years ago “Resurrected” and is going to let you into heaven is pretty far fetched, and what do you have to prove it? A book of Fables and that’s it. If you are going to go forward in faith from there, why stop there? Follow that same testimony that testifies of Jesus Christ and it will lead you to the Book of Mormon. If not, why be a Christian?

This is why I find one Christian questioning the faith of another (as is happening all over this thread) funny. Basically, it’s the blind men and the elephant all over again.

I am sorry you lost your faith in the BOM and in Modern day prophets, I’m sure if you ask it will be restored to you as has happened before.

Have a really wonderful day and my God lead you to the happiness he has prepared for you.
1,000 posted on 05/07/2007 6:58:14 AM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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