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They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious Bigotry, alive and well today
Saundra Duffy

Posted on 05/04/2007 5:46:36 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy

They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious bigotry, alive and well today

May 4, 2007 - by Saundra Duffy-Hawkins

“I wouldn’t vote for a Mormon for dogcatcher, much less President of the United States!” There’s a lot of that kind of hateful rhetoric going around since Mitt Romney decided to throw his hat in the ring – as if Mormons are some kind of hideous evil monsters. The loudest anti-Mormon shouts, sad to say, are coming from America’s so-called “Christian right”. How can Mitt Romney hope to get a fair shake in this spiritually polluted atmosphere?

There was another man running for President who faced the same dilemma – John F. Kennedy – only he was the target of anti-CATHOLIC bigotry. In his 1960 speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, JFK said the following: “. . .I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end - where all men and all churches are treated as equal - where man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice - where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind - and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their words in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.” John F. Kennedy Library & Museum (Speeches, 1960). By the way, if you listen to the audio version of JFK’s speech, you will hear the hurt and frustration in his voice and the unfair treatment surely must have caused many a sleepless night.

Fast forward to 2007 where JFK might as well have been “whistlin’ Dixie”. The hostility toward Mormons today, in my opinion, is even worse than that suffered by JFK. Although it is said that JFK lost about a million votes to religious intolerance, Romney stands to lose even more if the anti-Mormon evangelicals hang together.

According to Media Matters for America - “. . . a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media” - FOX News is not reporting accurately on the level of evangelical hostility to the Romney run. Media Matters for America points out that among evangelical leaders rejecting Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson (National Day of Prayer and Focus on the Family, respectively), the Southern Baptist Convention (collectively), Pat Robertson (Christian Broadcasting Network), and Dr. D. James Kennedy (Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Florida). “Among many conservative evangelicals – who comprise a significant part of the Republican base – Mormonism is considered an un-Christian cult.” Media Matters for America (2007)

While stumping in Florida, a man in the audience stood up during the Q&A portion and said the following to Romney: “You, sir, you’re a pretender. You do not know the Lord. You’re a Mormon.” Media Matters for America (2007). This is the kind of un-American, disrespectful treatment Mitt Romney will apparently have to endure throughout the entire campaign – as if just being a Mormon is reason enough to open the floodgates for free flow of pent-up hatred and vindictiveness.

For the record, the Mormon bashers know full well that the official name of Romney’s church is “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” and the members should rightfully be called “members of the LDS Church” but the words “Mormon” and “Mormonism” have an aura of negativity so they prefer to use the “M” word as if it were dirty.

Less than five minutes cruising around the official LDS website (LDS.org) will show anyone who’s interested that the Church is a Christian organization, with Jesus Christ at the Head. There are no paid clergy – all are volunteers. Humanitarian aid is legendary. Members of the LDS Church believe in strong family values; they are patriotic, they are law-abiding upstanding citizens of their community. Many LDS young men right out of high school go on two-year missions – you know, the guys on bikes – and during their mission they don’t date, read newspapers, go to movies or watch TV; but rather they dedicate two years of their lives to serving others. Many women go on missions as well, and couples, only theirs is 18 months in length but the obligations are basically the same. Most members do not shop or go out to eat on Sundays – reminiscent of the good old days when shops and stores were closed in obedience to the Commandment, “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy”. If they can help it, LDS Church members do not work on Sundays, either, preferring to spend the day at church and with their families. Church members are encouraged to store up a year’s supply of food and water so they will be able to care for their families in the event of an emergency. The LDS Church believes in self-sufficiency and self-reliance but in the event of a financial hardship the Church distributes food and supplies through their welfare (Bishop’s Storehouse) program. Members of the LDS Church do not drink alcohol nor do they use illicit drugs; they do not drink coffee and tea. A Mormon in good standing, therefore, will not be found in a drunken stupor puking her guts out at 3 a.m. anywhere in the world. Furthermore, members of the church are encouraged to dress modestly, be polite and courteous. And members of the LDS Church are faithful tithe payers. Come on, people, what’s not to love?

So what on earth is their beef, the anti-Mormon zealots? Why is there such disdain for the LDS Church and its members? In Hugh Hewitt’s book, “Mormon in the White House?” he states his thesis that the fierce anti-Mormon sentiment among main-stream Christians stems from one or two or all three of the following factors (in order of importance):

1) “It is just too weird.

2) “A Mormon president will supercharge Mormons’ missionary work.

3) “If there is a Mormon in the White House, Salt Lake City will call the shots, at least on the biggest issues.” Hewitt (2007, p. 221-227)

Hugh Hewitt has written an exquisite book about the Romney campaign and overcoming the “Mormon problem.” It’s a good read and I highly recommend it. Of the three problem points listed in the previous paragraph, Hewitt believes – unless some unforeseen blunder destroys his chances – none of the three is insurmountable for Mitt Romney. (Plus, he has the best hair.)

Well, I’m no Hugh Hewitt, not even close; he’s an icon on the conservative radio talk show circuit. Hewitt could talk circles around me (I’ve seen him in action in Sacramento); he’s brilliant; he’s well educated, well read, no doubt a genius, plus he’s kind of cute. I’m basically a “nobody” – an overweight grandma – but after having researched for this paper, I have come to a totally different conclusion as to why there is such in-your-face angst over Romney’s religion of choice: It’s all about money, power and control (in that order). I think they’re (the evangelical religious bigots, that is) scared half to death and are revving up their attacks, not to save souls, but to save their reputations (which if tarnished would lead to financial ruin).

As I said, all one must do is browse around the LDS official web site to see what the LDS Church believes and stands for. Any reasonable person would conclude that Mormons are not evil monsters at all. In fact, they are God fearing, Christ believing, Holy Ghost following people going about doing good. “You will know them by their fruit” and the LDS has plenty of fruit and they are willing to share.

Earlier, I stated that some high-powered ministries have publicly condemned Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson, the Southern Baptist Convention, Pat Robertson, and Dr. D. James Kennedy – just to name a few. There are hoards of others. Sunday after Sunday, preachers, evangelists, reverends and ministers from all Christian denominations pound the pulpit with anti-Mormon rhetoric. I heard the message loud clear when I was a Baptist and when I tiptoed through evangelical/Pentecostal territories. Was I ever miffed when I later learned for myself the Gospel truth about the LDS Church.

Just think about it, please. If Dr. D. James Kennedy, for example, who wrote the book, The Wolves Among Us, were to admit he’d been wrong in labeling the LDS Church a “cult” that leads unwary ignorant people astray (to hell), what would become of his multi-million-dollar ministry? Suffice it to say, there’s big money to be had by sale of books, tapes, CD’s, videos, and other anti-Mormon propaganda, not to mention speaking engagements and world-wide religious crusades. We’re talking trillions, all told. I realize the anti-Mormon aspect of these ministries is but a small portion of the business, but if the truth came out, that they had been using falsehoods about the LDS Church as a cash cow, their entire empires could tumble.

The ABC News program 20/20 aired on March 23, 2007, exposed the lavish lifestyles of some of the top evangelical preachers – million dollar mansions and personal jets. ABC News - 20/20 (2007) (Again, the LDS Church has no paid clergy.)

It’s nothing new. Severe harassment and persecution has been the lot of the LDS Church since it’s inception in 1820 when a 14-year-old boy named Joseph Smith saw visions and communed with heavenly beings. Rather than discuss the spiritual aspects of the LDS Church, however, let’s stick to facts of history. Taken from a college-level early American history textbook, Joseph Smith, upon experiencing the visions and visitations, believed “that God had work for me to do, and that my name should be for good and evil among all nations, kindreds and tongues.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 292). The textbook continues, “They were met with hostility virtually everywhere they went . . . . As the movement gathered momentum, hundreds of people joined the church; entire congregations of churches of other faiths joined . . .” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 293)

During the dark time of American history when slavery was flourishing and when Native Americans were forced from their lands, the pioneers of the LDS Church also suffered at the hands of unscrupulous politicians, governmental leaders, and angry hate-filled mobs. “In the face of relentless persecution, Joseph Smith, the founder of the church, had led his flock to Illinois. There they had established the town of Nauvoo, which by the mid-1840’s had become the largest city in Illinois with over 15,000 people. . . In June 1844, a mob of non-Mormons broke into the jail where Smith was being held and killed both him and his brother. . .The Mormons abandoned Nauvoo in the spring of 1846 as anti-Mormons pounded the town with cannon, destroying the Great Temple. In a well-coordinated migration, 15,000 Mormons moved in stages to the Great Salt Lake.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 334-335) Many walked all the way and many died along the way, including innocent babes.

Joseph Smith at one time was tarred and feathered by a mob. No jury, no trial, no judge – and they had planned to castrate him, too. On October 27, 1838, the then governor of Missouri issued an “extermination order”: “The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the State if necessary . . .” Far West History (n.d.) Please note that the order called for exterminating “Mormons” making no distinction between men, women and children, and indeed women and children were subject to the extermination order.

In an event known in LDS history as “the Haun’s Mill Massacre”, precipitated by the extermination order, 30 to 40 LDS families were surprised by some 200 to 250 militia. After the smoke cleared, seventeen LDS people lay dead including a ten-year-old boy. Thirteen LDS members were wounded including a woman and a seven-year-old boy. “A few Missourians returned the next day and took plunder.” LDS FAQ (n.d.) No Missouri militiamen were killed but three were wounded. Just a few years earlier, the LDS folk who died that day had been members of other churches - Congregational or Methodist or Baptist or Presbyterian.

In l976, Governor Bond of Missouri officially rescinded the extermination order and presented apologies for the “unfortunate developments” it caused. Quoting from Governor Bond’s Executive Order: “WHEREAS, Governor Boggs’ order clearly contravened the rights to life, liberty, property and religious freedom as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, as well as the Constitution of the State of Missouri; and . . . Expressing on behalf of all Missourians our deep regret for the injustice and undue suffering rescind Executive Order Number 44 dated October 27, 1838, issued by Governor W. Boggs. . .” Far West History (n.d.) The individuals who harassed, abused, and even murdered Mormons in cold blood were never tried for their crimes.

I read Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.’s Letter from Birmingham Jail and it really touched my heart. There he was, suffering for the Lord in jail, and these religious leaders with highfalutin titles on the outside wrote an open letter (“A Call for Unity”) in which they criticize King’s tactics and basically blame King for the racial turmoil of the time. Though you can tell King is upset and hurt by the attack – made worse because he’s stuck in jail and can’t confront the religious leaders face-to-face – his response is gentle genius. “I wish you had commended the Negro sit-inners and demonstrators of Birmingham for their sublime courage, their willingness to suffer, and their amazing discipline in the midst of great provocation. One day the South will recognize its real heroes.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 881)

King has a few choice words for the Church, too: “If today’s church does not recapture the sacrificial spirit of the early church, it will lose its authenticity, forfeit the loyalty of millions, and be dismissed as an irrelevant social club with no meaning for the twentieth century. Every day I meet young people whose disappointment with the church has turned into outright disgust.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 880)

King signs off with “Yours for the cause of Peace and Brotherhood”.

There’s an eerie commonality between what JFK and MLK endured at the hands of the religious bigots of their day and what Mitt Romney is facing today. I hope and pray that Romney will be able to fend off these undeserved attacks from the religious hypocrites with the same grace, dignity and God-inspired resolve displayed by the other two.

A few popular bumper stickers read: “Honk if you love Jesus” and “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven” or “Jesus is my co-pilot”. Yet, apparently, these same bumper-sticker Christians are the ones waging war against Mitt Romney’s run for the Presidency solely on the basis of his chosen faith in a Church that bears the name of the Savior of the world.

References

ABC News - 20/20 (2007). Philanthropic donations come from your heart, but where do they end up? Ex-money manager says "enough!" to secretive Christian Ministry spending. Glenn Ruppel & John Stossel. United States: ABC News.

Ayers, E. L., Gould, L. L., Oshinsky, D. M., & Soderlund, J. R. (2004). American Passages - a history of the United States - Volume I: to 1877 (2nd ed.). Belmont, California: Thomson/Wadsworth.

Barnet, S., & Bedau, H. (2005). Letter from Birmingham Jail. Current Issues and Enduring Questions - a guide to critical thinking and argument, with readings (7th ed., pp. 867-882). Boston and New York: Bedford/St. Martin's.

Far West History. (n.d.). The Extermination Order and how it was rescinded. Retrieved April 28, 2007, from http://www.jwha.info/mmff/exorder.htm

Hewitt, H. (2007). A Mormon in the White House? 10 things every American should know about Mitt Romney. Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing, Inc.

John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum. (1960, September 12). Address of Senator John F. Kennedy to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://www.jfklibrary.org

Lds Faq. (n.d.). What was the Haun's Mill Massacre? Retrieved April 28-2007, 2004, from Brigham Young University Web Site: http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/view.asp?q=57

Media Matters for America. (2007). Fox News whitewashes evangelical hostility to Romney's faith. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://mediamatters.org/items/printable/200702280002


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: boggsforgovernor; cuespookymusic; election; lds; mormon; mormons; romney; whitesalamanderblues
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To: colorcountry; sevenbak; greyfoxx39
Prayers in Sacrament meeting are different than "prayers over the sacrament." You know this very well and yet your answer was quite deceptive don't you think? Women are not and have never been able to perform the sacramental prayer (as greyfoxx put it - "over the sacrament") and you know it. Do you think it is honest to answer questions in a deceptive way?

I read the post and took it the same way as sevenbak, so what she (I think I saw greyfoxx39 say she was a she) just was not clear, no deception is intended.

Maybe a line break between the sentences would have helped

Women are not priesthood holders, so no they will not be blessing the sacrament, baptizing, or holding the office of Bishop, Stake president, etc. So are you as mad at the Catholics for not having female Priests or a female Pope?

As for women not giving the opening and closing prayers in sacrament meetings, that was a tradition that came over from protestants and was never part of the instruction from the church, the church did however send a letter to all bishops specifically instructing them that women were not to be excluded form opening and closing prayers in sacrament meeting.

Is that better?
761 posted on 05/06/2007 8:51:06 AM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: George W. Bush
Salt Lake had better expect attacks via the libmedia arm of the Dim party. I expect there will be some exploration of the origin of phrases like "phonier than a three-dollar bill" and "talking through your hat". I won't list any others. Also, they'll be looking for Masonry tie-ins. There may be escalating attacks on the Scouts in the familiar pattern.

I like your post a lot. The above paragraph is the main reason that I don't want to see Romney as nominee. People laugh at my "hounds of hell" description of the clinton/media unholy alliance, but I stand by it.

762 posted on 05/06/2007 8:51:28 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Fred sez "I'm not interested in being the tallest midget in the room.." RUN FRED RUN!)
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To: colorcountry
I thought it was funny (sad) in the last general conference when the Prophet Gordon B. Hinkley stated that his wife was his most prized possession.

LDS people may not even recognize how ludicrous and offensive statements like this are to the rest of Christianity.


My wife said the same thing about me, and I was flattered.

I think you may have been offended too easily on this one.
763 posted on 05/06/2007 8:54:40 AM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: sevenbak
Why do you think the abuse button was hit? It seemed very clear that the Mod told him to knock it off, and 2 of his posts were pulled. Does he have no accountability in your mind?

Go back and read those posts, Tant....NNN was complaining because the mod has explicitly ordered the two NOT to post to each other and DU made the first post. Frankly, I think it was unfair to ban one and not the other.

764 posted on 05/06/2007 8:55:37 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Fred sez "I'm not interested in being the tallest midget in the room.." RUN FRED RUN!)
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To: Saundra Duffy
“Sunday after Sunday, preachers, evangelists, reverends and ministers from all Christian denominations pound the pulpit with anti-Mormon rhetoric.”

I've attended Christian churches for more than 50 years, usually multiple times a week. I have yet to hear such rhetoric from the pulpit.

765 posted on 05/06/2007 9:00:13 AM PDT by gitmo (From now on, ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put.)
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To: tantiboh; colorcountry
That bothers me, too, CC. It seems to be particularly widespread among Utah Mormons. Such people are not followers of Christ.

That's a surprising admission.

Get out to, well, just about anywhere else, and you’ll have an entirely different experience with Mormons.

I haven't lived in a heavily mormon area for many years, and never in Utah. I think though, the attitude of being "better than us" comes from the constant reinforcement to mormons that they "have the only true church" and the "restored gospel." It would be strange to not feel superior IMO.

766 posted on 05/06/2007 9:01:27 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Fred sez "I'm not interested in being the tallest midget in the room.." RUN FRED RUN!)
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To: greyfoxx39
It is MY belief that you and others do your side no favor by constantly taking posts as personal affronts.

When ever anyone denies me my savior I will be offended. I believe in Jesus Christ and I will state that to my dying breath, and beyond. If I am banned for that, so be it.

Could I have handled things better? Absolutely! I will hopefully handle things better the next time, for as you suggest, there will undoubtedly be a “Next Time”. Any one who says that Mormons … is talking about me for I am one.

I think all our detractors should realize that when you speak of all mormons you are speaking about each of us specifically, and couch your critiques that way, or speak of the "Mormon Church", not of Mormons.

I think we should ALL keep in mind that EACH side has the SAME right to put forth the facts AS WE SEE THEM before the other people that are reading the thread.

So you think you have the same right to state what I believe as I do?

I am sorry, on this we will have to disagree.

So, I am requesting that we ALL consider the banning of Needle Nose Neely as a lesson, and think twice, no SIX times before making that personal attack or pinging the mod.

This does sadden me a bit for I so enjoy wit and sarcasm, sigh…

I wish NNN were allowed to come back.
Agreed.
767 posted on 05/06/2007 9:06:22 AM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: George W. Bush

Fascinating post. I joined FR during the FL flap, but didn’t know anything about the FReepers moves that you describe. Post saved to my hard drive.


768 posted on 05/06/2007 9:07:28 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Fred sez "I'm not interested in being the tallest midget in the room.." RUN FRED RUN!)
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To: greyfoxx39
It's a fair take, I think.

Also, we hear complaints from newer members about all the spatting over candidates here currently (too mean-spirited, ect.). An open presidential primary does that in either party. It was very very lively here in 1999 and 2000, maybe a little more than it has been recently. But it only got really hot in the late fall of 1999. It did start much earlier this time.
769 posted on 05/06/2007 9:13:50 AM PDT by George W. Bush (Election Math For Dummies: GOP รท Rudi = Hillary)
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To: wintertime

What did it say?


770 posted on 05/06/2007 9:14:29 AM PDT by gitmo (From now on, ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put.)
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To: tantiboh; Netizen
“Oh, and why they left? Because they were dirt poor and couldn’t pay their tithing bills that kept coming in the mail.”

That’s the kind of distortion I’ve been talking about. There is no such thing as a “tithing bill.” Payment is entirely voluntary, and not paying it is not as excommunicable offense. The only ramification of not paying tithing is that you cannot be a temple recommend holder.

A little further clarification here: If you are not a temple recommend holder you can not take part in the required rituals that will enable you to enter the "Celestial Kingdom" or Heaven as most Christians know it.

No one has EVER been kicked out of the LDS Church for not paying tithing. Tant, are you absolutely sure that Brigham Young never did so?

You may be representing the story accurately as you heard it, but somebody in the chain of information is lying.

I would word it to read that someone is misinformed. Who knows what everyone's experience has been?

771 posted on 05/06/2007 9:17:27 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Fred sez "I'm not interested in being the tallest midget in the room.." RUN FRED RUN!)
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To: Netizen; andysandmikesmom
Where did you hear such nonsense! There is no such thing as a tithing bill, nor ever was. Tithing is a commandment just as it was in times of old, (see Malachi 3:8-12) But not paying tithing doesn’t get someone kicked out of the church, never has. It is not a requirement of attending church, or even partaking of the sacrament either. Where did you hear such a thing?

Now, as to the poor, they are taken care of by the fast offering funds of the church. IF there are not sufficient funds in the local congregation of fast offerings to help with food, bills, mortgage, etc, then funds are taken from the general FO fund of the church to make up the difference. The poor are cared for, not mocked, abused and discarded. I honestly don’t know why you would post such a thing?

772 posted on 05/06/2007 9:20:11 AM PDT by sevenbak (A LIE travels around the world while the TRUTH is still putting on its boots -Winston Churchill)
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To: Netizen

“BUT NOT be allowed to enter the temple, in essence, not be allowed to go to church?”

First, going to the temple and going to church are two different things.

If a person receives financial assistance from the Church, one part of the program is that the bishop sits down with them and helps them plan out an intelligent budget.

What’s the first item they budget for with the money they get from the Church? Tithing. In other words, there’s nobody who receives Church welfare who can’t afford to pay tithes.

The idea is to teach a principle of selfless sacrifice. In the old days, the farmer would pay in wheat or chickens or calves or whatever else he raised, then such in-kind payments would be distributed to the poor. It isn’t about the money, it’s about the principle.

Poverty is not a sin. Poverty does not disqualify you from any of the blessing or privileges of the LDS Church. Some of the Church’s happiest, best, most faithful wards are the poor ones, because they’re generally more humble.


773 posted on 05/06/2007 9:22:43 AM PDT by tantiboh
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To: tantiboh; greyfoxx39
If the Clintons and MSM go after Romney on the basis of religion, they will be walking on a shaking tightrope. I give it ten-to-one odds it’ll backfire.

I agree completely. Just look at how it backfired on the guy who tried it a few months ago with his "You sir are a deceiver, a Mormon" statement. The audience booed him rigorously. If they try this, it will indeed backfire and Romney will get more sympathy votes than were taken away by their methods.

774 posted on 05/06/2007 9:24:04 AM PDT by sevenbak (A LIE travels around the world while the TRUTH is still putting on its boots -Winston Churchill)
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To: DelphiUser
I think we should ALL keep in mind that EACH side has the SAME right to put forth the facts AS WE SEE THEM before the other people that are reading the thread.

So you think you have the same right to state what I believe as I do?

I have the right to interpret mormon teachings and belief from my OWN experience and state them publicly. You are picking at nits here, DU.

As to the "mormons believe" thing. I will try to state the "mormon church", which is probably more concise.

775 posted on 05/06/2007 9:25:28 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Fred sez "I'm not interested in being the tallest midget in the room.." RUN FRED RUN!)
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To: colorcountry; sevenbak

“I said the office is higher. I did not say President Romney (Church title he still retains)as a man is higher.”

You’re forgetting the priesthood structure, CC. Stake President is a CALLING. To be qualified for the calling, you must hold the office in the Priesthood of High Priest - there are quite a few of those in a given stake.

When a person is released from the calling of Stake President, they no longer retain that authority. They continue to hold the office of High Priest, though, even if their next calling is Scoutmaster.

I love how we keep using Scoutmaster as a contrast to Stake President. Oh, how low thou has fallen, Scoutmaster!


776 posted on 05/06/2007 9:27:18 AM PDT by tantiboh
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To: DelphiUser
Go back and read those posts, Tant....NNN was complaining because the mod has explicitly ordered the two NOT to post to each other and DU made the first post. Frankly, I think it was unfair to ban one and not the other.

I recused myself from the forum for a day because I felt I was getting too involved (and announced that) and during that time NNN posted to me four times claiming I had broken the agreement, I had not. When I returned, he claimed I was not allowed to respond to his attacks because the “Agreement” was still in force. It was not pretty, and I am not happy with how it turned out.

In order to see how things worked out, you have to look at what I was responding to, not when it appeared chronologically, because coming back, I was playing catch-up, and responded to some posts after we had been told not to (by the clock), but before I had read down to that post.

For my part, I will not second guess the Mods if they want to ban me for something, I will accept that as I am a guest here and they make the rules.

Just make it short before I get FR withdrawal too bad

777 posted on 05/06/2007 9:27:31 AM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: sevenbak
I agree completely. Just look at how it backfired on the guy who tried it a few months ago with his "You sir are a deceiver, a Mormon" statement. The audience booed him rigorously. If they try this, it will indeed backfire and Romney will get more sympathy votes than were taken away by their methods.

What guy? When? Where? Link? Enquiring minds want to know. ;)

778 posted on 05/06/2007 9:28:15 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Fred sez "I'm not interested in being the tallest midget in the room.." RUN FRED RUN!)
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To: tantiboh; DelphiUser
That’s why we’re going to see a lot of hit-pieces such as the recent PBS documentary and the upcoming “Mountain Meadows Massacre” movie. The Boston Globe has been writing snide things about Romney for years.

This is a good place to ask a mormon what he thinks is the general mormon reaction to the PBS documentary? I saw parts of it, but not all, and it seemed to present some facts that the average mormon may not have been aware of. Care to elaborate?

779 posted on 05/06/2007 9:36:38 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Fred sez "I'm not interested in being the tallest midget in the room.." RUN FRED RUN!)
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To: colorcountry

“Now, please tell me how abstaining from drinking tea (and judging others who do)”

See, this is an example of... something. I haven’t figured out the precise word for it. It appears to me to be a cross between envy and an inferiority complex.

How do we judge you for drinking tea? Just because I choose not to does not mean I look down on you for doing so. Drink all the tea in China, if you want. I don’t care.

But why do you view it as judgmentalism when I don’t? Maybe it’s a Utah thing, I don’t know. But it’s almost like you’re rooting for me and my fellow Mormons to fail. And if we don’t, well, then we’re judging you.

I just don’t get it. Live your live according to the dictates of your own conscience. I don’t understand when you condemn me as judgmental when I do the same.

I tell you, you’ve got to experience Mormons outside of Utah. It’s a whole different perspective.

As for your question, God gifted us a physical body, and we are stewards of it. Many teas are unhealthy for the body, so they are proscribed. By treating our bodies correctly, we demonstrate gratitude to the Giver.


780 posted on 05/06/2007 9:37:43 AM PDT by tantiboh
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