They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious Bigotry, alive and well today

“I wouldn’t vote for a Mormon for dogcatcher, much less President of the United States!” There’s a lot of that kind of hateful rhetoric going around since Mitt Romney decided to throw his hat in the ring – as if Mormons are some kind of hideous evil monsters. The loudest anti-Mormon shouts, sad to say, are coming from America’s so-called “Christian right”. How can Mitt Romney hope to get a fair shake in this spiritually polluted atmosphere?

There was another man running for President who faced the same dilemma – John F. Kennedy – only he was the target of anti-CATHOLIC bigotry. In his 1960 speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, JFK said the following: “. . .I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end - where all men and all churches are treated as equal - where man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice - where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind - and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their words in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.” John F. Kennedy Library & Museum (Speeches, 1960). By the way, if you listen to the audio version of JFK’s speech, you will hear the hurt and frustration in his voice and the unfair treatment surely must have caused many a sleepless night.

Fast forward to 2007 where JFK might as well have been “whistlin’ Dixie”. The hostility toward Mormons today, in my opinion, is even worse than that suffered by JFK. Although it is said that JFK lost about a million votes to religious intolerance, Romney stands to lose even more if the anti-Mormon evangelicals hang together.

According to Media Matters for America - “. . . a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media” - FOX News is not reporting accurately on the level of evangelical hostility to the Romney run. Media Matters for America points out that among evangelical leaders rejecting Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson (National Day of Prayer and Focus on the Family, respectively), the Southern Baptist Convention (collectively), Pat Robertson (Christian Broadcasting Network), and Dr. D. James Kennedy (Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Florida). “Among many conservative evangelicals – who comprise a significant part of the Republican base – Mormonism is considered an un-Christian cult.” Media Matters for America (2007)

While stumping in Florida, a man in the audience stood up during the Q&A portion and said the following to Romney: “You, sir, you’re a pretender. You do not know the Lord. You’re a Mormon.” Media Matters for America (2007). This is the kind of un-American, disrespectful treatment Mitt Romney will apparently have to endure throughout the entire campaign – as if just being a Mormon is reason enough to open the floodgates for free flow of pent-up hatred and vindictiveness.

For the record, the Mormon bashers know full well that the official name of Romney’s church is “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” and the members should rightfully be called “members of the LDS Church” but the words “Mormon” and “Mormonism” have an aura of negativity so they prefer to use the “M” word as if it were dirty.

Less than five minutes cruising around the official LDS website (LDS.org) will show anyone who’s interested that the Church is a Christian organization, with Jesus Christ at the Head. There are no paid clergy – all are volunteers. Humanitarian aid is legendary. Members of the LDS Church believe in strong family values; they are patriotic, they are law-abiding upstanding citizens of their community. Many LDS young men right out of high school go on two-year missions – you know, the guys on bikes – and during their mission they don’t date, read newspapers, go to movies or watch TV; but rather they dedicate two years of their lives to serving others. Many women go on missions as well, and couples, only theirs is 18 months in length but the obligations are basically the same. Most members do not shop or go out to eat on Sundays – reminiscent of the good old days when shops and stores were closed in obedience to the Commandment, “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy”. If they can help it, LDS Church members do not work on Sundays, either, preferring to spend the day at church and with their families. Church members are encouraged to store up a year’s supply of food and water so they will be able to care for their families in the event of an emergency. The LDS Church believes in self-sufficiency and self-reliance but in the event of a financial hardship the Church distributes food and supplies through their welfare (Bishop’s Storehouse) program. Members of the LDS Church do not drink alcohol nor do they use illicit drugs; they do not drink coffee and tea. A Mormon in good standing, therefore, will not be found in a drunken stupor puking her guts out at 3 a.m. anywhere in the world. Furthermore, members of the church are encouraged to dress modestly, be polite and courteous. And members of the LDS Church are faithful tithe payers. Come on, people, what’s not to love?

So what on earth is their beef, the anti-Mormon zealots? Why is there such disdain for the LDS Church and its members? In Hugh Hewitt’s book, “Mormon in the White House?” he states his thesis that the fierce anti-Mormon sentiment among main-stream Christians stems from one or two or all three of the following factors (in order of importance):

3) “If there is a Mormon in the White House, Salt Lake City will call the shots, at least on the biggest issues.” Hewitt (2007, p. 221-227)

Hugh Hewitt has written an exquisite book about the Romney campaign and overcoming the “Mormon problem.” It’s a good read and I highly recommend it. Of the three problem points listed in the previous paragraph, Hewitt believes – unless some unforeseen blunder destroys his chances – none of the three is insurmountable for Mitt Romney. (Plus, he has the best hair.)

Well, I’m no Hugh Hewitt, not even close; he’s an icon on the conservative radio talk show circuit. Hewitt could talk circles around me (I’ve seen him in action in Sacramento); he’s brilliant; he’s well educated, well read, no doubt a genius, plus he’s kind of cute. I’m basically a “nobody” – an overweight grandma – but after having researched for this paper, I have come to a totally different conclusion as to why there is such in-your-face angst over Romney’s religion of choice: It’s all about money, power and control (in that order). I think they’re (the evangelical religious bigots, that is) scared half to death and are revving up their attacks, not to save souls, but to save their reputations (which if tarnished would lead to financial ruin).

As I said, all one must do is browse around the LDS official web site to see what the LDS Church believes and stands for. Any reasonable person would conclude that Mormons are not evil monsters at all. In fact, they are God fearing, Christ believing, Holy Ghost following people going about doing good. “You will know them by their fruit” and the LDS has plenty of fruit and they are willing to share.

Earlier, I stated that some high-powered ministries have publicly condemned Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson, the Southern Baptist Convention, Pat Robertson, and Dr. D. James Kennedy – just to name a few. There are hoards of others. Sunday after Sunday, preachers, evangelists, reverends and ministers from all Christian denominations pound the pulpit with anti-Mormon rhetoric. I heard the message loud clear when I was a Baptist and when I tiptoed through evangelical/Pentecostal territories. Was I ever miffed when I later learned for myself the Gospel truth about the LDS Church.

Just think about it, please. If Dr. D. James Kennedy, for example, who wrote the book, The Wolves Among Us, were to admit he’d been wrong in labeling the LDS Church a “cult” that leads unwary ignorant people astray (to hell), what would become of his multi-million-dollar ministry? Suffice it to say, there’s big money to be had by sale of books, tapes, CD’s, videos, and other anti-Mormon propaganda, not to mention speaking engagements and world-wide religious crusades. We’re talking trillions, all told. I realize the anti-Mormon aspect of these ministries is but a small portion of the business, but if the truth came out, that they had been using falsehoods about the LDS Church as a cash cow, their entire empires could tumble.

The ABC News program 20/20 aired on March 23, 2007, exposed the lavish lifestyles of some of the top evangelical preachers – million dollar mansions and personal jets. ABC News - 20/20 (2007) (Again, the LDS Church has no paid clergy.)

It’s nothing new. Severe harassment and persecution has been the lot of the LDS Church since it’s inception in 1820 when a 14-year-old boy named Joseph Smith saw visions and communed with heavenly beings. Rather than discuss the spiritual aspects of the LDS Church, however, let’s stick to facts of history. Taken from a college-level early American history textbook, Joseph Smith, upon experiencing the visions and visitations, believed “that God had work for me to do, and that my name should be for good and evil among all nations, kindreds and tongues.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 292). The textbook continues, “They were met with hostility virtually everywhere they went . . . . As the movement gathered momentum, hundreds of people joined the church; entire congregations of churches of other faiths joined . . .” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 293)

During the dark time of American history when slavery was flourishing and when Native Americans were forced from their lands, the pioneers of the LDS Church also suffered at the hands of unscrupulous politicians, governmental leaders, and angry hate-filled mobs. “In the face of relentless persecution, Joseph Smith, the founder of the church, had led his flock to Illinois. There they had established the town of Nauvoo, which by the mid-1840’s had become the largest city in Illinois with over 15,000 people. . . In June 1844, a mob of non-Mormons broke into the jail where Smith was being held and killed both him and his brother. . .The Mormons abandoned Nauvoo in the spring of 1846 as anti-Mormons pounded the town with cannon, destroying the Great Temple. In a well-coordinated migration, 15,000 Mormons moved in stages to the Great Salt Lake.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 334-335) Many walked all the way and many died along the way, including innocent babes.

Joseph Smith at one time was tarred and feathered by a mob. No jury, no trial, no judge – and they had planned to castrate him, too. On October 27, 1838, the then governor of Missouri issued an “extermination order”: “The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the State if necessary . . .” Far West History (n.d.) Please note that the order called for exterminating “Mormons” making no distinction between men, women and children, and indeed women and children were subject to the extermination order.

In an event known in LDS history as “the Haun’s Mill Massacre”, precipitated by the extermination order, 30 to 40 LDS families were surprised by some 200 to 250 militia. After the smoke cleared, seventeen LDS people lay dead including a ten-year-old boy. Thirteen LDS members were wounded including a woman and a seven-year-old boy. “A few Missourians returned the next day and took plunder.” LDS FAQ (n.d.) No Missouri militiamen were killed but three were wounded. Just a few years earlier, the LDS folk who died that day had been members of other churches - Congregational or Methodist or Baptist or Presbyterian.

In l976, Governor Bond of Missouri officially rescinded the extermination order and presented apologies for the “unfortunate developments” it caused. Quoting from Governor Bond’s Executive Order: “WHEREAS, Governor Boggs’ order clearly contravened the rights to life, liberty, property and religious freedom as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, as well as the Constitution of the State of Missouri; and . . . Expressing on behalf of all Missourians our deep regret for the injustice and undue suffering rescind Executive Order Number 44 dated October 27, 1838, issued by Governor W. Boggs. . .” Far West History (n.d.) The individuals who harassed, abused, and even murdered Mormons in cold blood were never tried for their crimes.

I read Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.’s Letter from Birmingham Jail and it really touched my heart. There he was, suffering for the Lord in jail, and these religious leaders with highfalutin titles on the outside wrote an open letter (“A Call for Unity”) in which they criticize King’s tactics and basically blame King for the racial turmoil of the time. Though you can tell King is upset and hurt by the attack – made worse because he’s stuck in jail and can’t confront the religious leaders face-to-face – his response is gentle genius. “I wish you had commended the Negro sit-inners and demonstrators of Birmingham for their sublime courage, their willingness to suffer, and their amazing discipline in the midst of great provocation. One day the South will recognize its real heroes.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 881)

King has a few choice words for the Church, too: “If today’s church does not recapture the sacrificial spirit of the early church, it will lose its authenticity, forfeit the loyalty of millions, and be dismissed as an irrelevant social club with no meaning for the twentieth century. Every day I meet young people whose disappointment with the church has turned into outright disgust.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 880)

There’s an eerie commonality between what JFK and MLK endured at the hands of the religious bigots of their day and what Mitt Romney is facing today. I hope and pray that Romney will be able to fend off these undeserved attacks from the religious hypocrites with the same grace, dignity and God-inspired resolve displayed by the other two.

A few popular bumper stickers read: “Honk if you love Jesus” and “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven” or “Jesus is my co-pilot”. Yet, apparently, these same bumper-sticker Christians are the ones waging war against Mitt Romney’s run for the Presidency solely on the basis of his chosen faith in a Church that bears the name of the Savior of the world.

ABC News - 20/20 (2007). Philanthropic donations come from your heart, but where do they end up? Ex-money manager says "enough!" to secretive Christian Ministry spending. Glenn Ruppel & John Stossel. United States: ABC News.

Ayers, E. L., Gould, L. L., Oshinsky, D. M., & Soderlund, J. R. (2004). American Passages - a history of the United States - Volume I: to 1877 (2nd ed.). Belmont, California: Thomson/Wadsworth.

Barnet, S., & Bedau, H. (2005). Letter from Birmingham Jail. Current Issues and Enduring Questions - a guide to critical thinking and argument, with readings (7th ed., pp. 867-882). Boston and New York: Bedford/St. Martin's.

Far West History. (n.d.). The Extermination Order and how it was rescinded. Retrieved April 28, 2007, from http://www.jwha.info/mmff/exorder.htm

Hewitt, H. (2007). A Mormon in the White House? 10 things every American should know about Mitt Romney. Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing, Inc.

John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum. (1960, September 12). Address of Senator John F. Kennedy to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://www.jfklibrary.org

Lds Faq. (n.d.). What was the Haun's Mill Massacre? Retrieved April 28-2007, 2004, from Brigham Young University Web Site: http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/view.asp?q=57

Media Matters for America. (2007). Fox News whitewashes evangelical hostility to Romney's faith. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://mediamatters.org/items/printable/200702280002

The author can never be accused of plagiarism, god is listed as the author of both, what’s the problem again?

Of course, that's why on the title page of the original BoM we find: "...by Joseph Smith, jr.,author and proprietor." [Of course, the contemporary BoM has been conveniently changed to "translator"]

I am telling you, you do not know what I believe...

Comprehensively, no. Directionally, it's not like I'm your personal holy spirit. Doctrinally, well, LDS do vary like any folk. But generically, based upon doctrinal professions, COUPLED with the very heavy emphasis that LDS are to be subject to their general authorities (heavier emphasis, I believe, than most religions), somebody CAN come fairly close to pinning down what certain LDS folk believe. It may not be 100% accurate; some LDS are closer to Biblical truth, whereas other LDS lean more toward "restoration recitations."

My comparison would be that if all LDS were pharmacists, they'd all dispense their own customized generic dosages--in fact, I don't know if we could really find a full genuine "brand" item of the "product." But it's only because the brand item exists that the generics also exist.

and you do not have the right to Tell me what I believe, or to tell others what I believe

Well, who could argue with that? Unfortunately, the fact is that once you subscribe to Joseph Smith as a "prophet," you cannot easily be choosy when you go thru his produce section. Your grower is basically farmer Joe Smith. Whatever he grows, if you want to eat, it goes in your basket, whether or not you'd prefer something else.

And, if you come out of Farmer Joe's produce section in the Farmer Joe Supermarket having lots of items in the Farmer Joe basket, you don't blame me if I assume you bought those items from Farmer Joe's, do you? [Even if you ecletically got them from elsewhere]

So if Joe said it, and I repeat it, I guess I'm guilty of telling others what LDS "believe." (Now that does that mean LDS "believe," no...see above for my pharmacists' analogy)

You know Christians go through the same thing. We don't stand and fall with whoever headed up a particular denomination; we stand or fall first on the relationship with the true Jesus and true Father as well as on the character of Jesus Christ and how that character has--or hasn't--saturated our lives. Unfortunately, Jesus is not the "Main filter" of Mormonism; Joe Smith is...Jesus is what I'd call a "primary secondary" figure. Anyway, if somebody deems some comments made by Jesus are "excess baggage," so be it. Tag me with them.

you cannot tell if I am a Christian

As long as you're a straight shooter on this & grant me the same privilege: If I redefine LDSism, you cannot tell me I am not a Latter-day Saint. (I mean "Saint" isn't exactly a word particular to LDS, now is it?) Agreed?

You cannot prove my faith wrong for I have received a witness from he who never lies...

Who appointed me prosecuting witness of your faith? (I don't take over the Holy Spirit's role...see John 16). I am here to bear witness to true prophets (Heb 1:1-2) and to false ones (Deut. 18:20).

As for the "witness" you rec'd, Scripture says, "Test ALL things"...including a Mormon's faith & witness & calling & election made sure--"hold fast to that which is true." So I encourage folks, LDS & historic Christian alike to read 1 John 5:

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and thee three are one...If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth [present tense] on the Son of God hath the witness in himself [present tense]...And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life [PRESENT TENSE...eternal life is present tense...it's not simply a future reality!!!!!] , and this life is in His Son. He that hath the Son hath life [present tense], and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe o the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW [not guess, not surmise, not "hope"] that ye HAVE [present tense] eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:7, 9-13)

Do you presently have the Son? Do you have the inner witness of God that you presently have eternal life--a life with (John 17:3) and IN His Son (1 John 5:11)?

This passage, along w/all the Jesus passages in John passages that talk about eternal life as present tense (John 3:36; John 5:26; John 6:47, etc.) show that "eternal life" is not as McConkie & other LDS general authorities defined it ("Salvation in its true and full sense is synonymous with exaltation or eternal life and consists in gaining an inheritance in the highest of the three heavens within the celestial kingdom."--McConkie, MD, p. 669). They define it as the celestial kingdom & becoming gods. But that would mean that if eternal life is present-tense, that we have an awful lot of gods walking around and that the celestial kingdom is here. {To use Joe's language, "that would be a strange and curious godhood, anyhow!"]

Let's just go with Jesus' simple definition of eternal life, shall we? "And this is eternal life, that you know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom He has sent." (John 17:3)

Knowing is a relationship. It's a present-tense relationship. It's not like we're not going to "know" and trust him only upon death. And it's not like only a select few will know him as "fellow gods."

Explain away the testimonies of the witnesses of the Book of Mormon who did not recant even in the most dire circumstances their testimonies.

Oh, you mean Martin Harris, the Quaker-turned-Universalist-turned-Restorationist-turned Baptist-turned Presbyterian-turned-Mormon? (And that was only before his conversion to Mormonism) Afterward, (after the LDS kicked him out), he changed religions 8 more times (including with the Shakers) & then w/an LDS break-off group, the Strangites. Harris said his testimony for Shakerism was greater than for Mormonism. Just go to a BYU 1955 thesis by Wayne Gunnell and you'll see that the Shakers' "Sacred Roll and Roll Book" was likewise supposedly delivered by an "angel." (BTW, Harris, according to a book, Gleanings by the Way, said he aw the plates via "eyes of faith and not w/natural eyes")

Oh, you mean David Whitmer, who was also excommunicated from the LDS church. According to the Palmyra Reflector (3/19/1831), Whitmer, like Harris, also said he saw the gold plates "by the eye of faith." Whitmer = "dumb beast to ride" & "an ass to bray out cursings instead of blessings" per JS (HoC, vol. 3: 228). Whitmer announced in 1847 (declared to Oliver Cowdery) that he was the prophet of the New Church of Christ.

Or how about Cowdery? Before or as being excommunicated by the LDS church (HoC, 3:16-18), JS said he was the leader of a gang of "scoundrels of the deepest degree (Senate Doc 189, 2/15/1841, pp. 6-9, Comprehensive History of the Church, B.H. Roberts, vol. 1, pp. 438-439). This gang was apparently involved with stealing, lying, perjury, counterfeiting, & adultery.

As a later convert to Methodism, he denied the BoM and publicly confessed sorrow/shame for LDS connection. LDS try to make much of his return to the LDS church in 1848, but Cowdery rejoined efforts after that with LDS apostate apotle Wm McLellin as they tried to raise up a competing kingdom to LDSism.

So you rest your eternal life and faith in these 3?

Non primary sources above from Harvest House Publishers, 1995 pp. 401-404.

Explain the witness of men and women of the past and the present who testify of him.

Explain why if it's the Holy Spirit's role to testify to Jesus (John 15:26) and glorify Him (John 16:14) why LDS witnesses "of the past" who want to testify of a mere man (even if he was a prophet)?

"Therefore let NO MAN glory in men...Whether paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come...ye are Christ's..." (1 Cor. 3:21-23)

Explain the martyrdom of Joseph Smith.

We did. (Colorcountry's explanation is historically accurate) As history has shown, some criminals have been unjustly lynched. [The lynching doesn't disprove they were criminals; only that the punishment didn't fit the crime] JoeSmith was a criminal from his Kirtland Bank $3 days on (and from that era's perpective, from his glass-looking days onward).

Explain why you and yours find “No Evidence” of Joseph as a prophet unless it is that there truly are none so blind as those who will not see.

Explain his false prophecies having to do with the temple to be built in Zion (Independence, MO) [D&C 84]. Explain why David Patten was never sent on the mission he was prophesied to go on in the D&C; but instead he died. For other prophecies he made, read History of the Prophet Joseph Smith and check his track record.

Yes, but the book of Enoch would have been since it predated Moses.

Nope.

IDENTIFICATION:
   A. The Pentateuch consists of the first five books of the
   OT: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy
   B. The term "Pentateuch" comes from the Greek term
   pent teuchos meaning "five-volumed (book) after the
   Jewish designation, "the five-fifths of the law"1
   C. The Jews called it "Torah" (instruction) which is often
   rendered in English by "Law" (Matt 5:17; Luke 16:17;
   Acts 7:53; 1 Cor 9:8)

http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=29

Enoch isn't even included in the Tanach (Jewish Bible)

1 Enoch
The five booklets that comprise the book range in date from perhaps before 200 BCE to the end of the first century BCE or possibly somewhat later. 1. Chaps. 1-36 The Book of the Watchers may date from the third century BCE. Parts of its text have been identified on several copies from Qumran cave 4; the earliest fragmentary manuscript (4QEnocha) dates, according to the editor J.T. Milk, to between 200 and 150 BCE.

In dealing with 2 Enoch, it is important to take note of the summary words that F.I. Andersen, who translated 2 Enoch for The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha, has written: "In every respect 2 Enoch remains an enigma. So long as the date and location remain unknown, no use can be made of it for historical purposes. The present writer is inclined to place the book-or at least its original nucleus-early rather than late; and in a Jewish rather than a Christian community. But by the very marginal if not deviant character of their beliefs, its users could have been gentile converts to moral monotheism based on belief in the antediluvian God of the Bible as Creator, but not as the God of Abraham or Moses." (OTP 1.97) While a date of approximately 100 CE is sometimes given for it, this remains quite uncertain; in fact, J.T. Milik has argued that it was written by a Christian monk in the ninth or tenth century CE.

No wonder the Jews do NOT include it in their Scriptures!

http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_sd/enoch.html

Genesis/dating of the Pentateuch (first 5 books of the OT--- LAW)

When was Genesis written, given that man had not been created at the dawning of time or that man could not have witnessed all that transpired? Bible scholars believe that Genesis was written by Moses, under inspiration of the Holy Spirit, during the forty years that the children of Israel wandered in the wilderness (1450 - 1410 B.C.). Moses was chosen by God to deliver the children of Israel from Egyptian bondage. The details of his life are recorded in the Old Testament book of Exodus. http://www.allaboutcreation.org/when-was-genesis-written-faq.htm

The Torah ("Law") [also known as the Pentateuch] consists of:
1. Genesis [בראשית‎ / B'reshit]
2. Exodus [שמות‎ / Sh'mot]
3. Leviticus [ויקרא‎ / Vayiqra]
4. Numbers [במדבר‎ / B'midbar]
5. Deuteronomy [דברים‎ / D'varim]

The books of Nevi'im ("Prophets") are:
6. Joshua [יהושע‎ / Y'hoshua]
7. Judges [שופטים‎ / Shophtim]
8. Samuel (I & II) [שמואל‎ / Sh'muel]
9. Kings (I & II) [מלכים‎ / M'lakhim]
10. Isaiah [ישעיה‎ / Y'shayahu]
11. Jeremiah [ירמיה‎ / Yir'mi'yahu]
12. Ezekiel [יחזקאל‎ / Y'khezqel]
13. The Twelve Minor Prophets [תרי עשר‎]
I. Hosea [הושע‎ / Hoshea]
II. Joel [יואל‎ / Yo'el]
III. Amos [עמוס‎ / Amos]
IV. Obadiah [עובדיה‎ / Ovadyah]
V. Jonah [יונה‎ / Yonah]
VI. Micah [מיכה‎ / Mikhah]
VII. Nahum [נחום‎ / Nakhum]
VIII. Habakkuk [חבקוק‎ /Khavaquq]
IX. Zephaniah [צפניה‎ / Ts'phanyah]
X. Haggai [חגי‎ / Khagai]
XI. Zechariah [זכריה‎ / Z'kharyah]
XII. Malachi [מלאכי‎ / Mal'akhi]

The Kh'tuvim ("Writings") are:
14. Psalms [תהלים‎ / T'hilim]
15. Proverbs [משלי‎ / Mishlei]
16. Job [איוב‎ / Iyov]
17. Song of Songs [שיר השירים‎ / Shir Hashirim]
18. Ruth [רות‎ / Rut]
19. Lamentations [איכה‎ / Eikhah]
20. Ecclesiastes [קהלת‎ / Qohelet]
21. Esther [אסתר‎ / Est(h)er]
22. Daniel [דניאל‎ / Dani'el]
23. Ezra-Nehemiah [עזרא ונחמיה‎ / Ezra wuNekhem'ya]
24. Chronicles (I & II) [דברי הימים‎ / Divrey Hayamim]

http://www.answers.com/topic/tanakh

The book of Enoch was being quoted every time Jesus said “Son of man” in that that was specifically used in a messianic prophecy, Jesus and all the gospels quoted form the Book of Enoch.

By that logic then Ezekiel 3 refers to Jesus as well.

Ezekiel 3
17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.

18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.

Of course Jesus did tell us that he came to preach repentance, which is exactly what Ezekiel 3 is warning about.

Matthew 3
2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 3:
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Matthew 11:20
Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:
Mark 6
11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
13 And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them.

I do however find it interesting that you immediately jump to the conclusion that Either Jesus was a fraud, or people were altering the scriptures we have now on purpose.

I gave those two possibilities, by all means, list your possibities.

“So you are deaf to testimony, deaf to scripture, deaf to witnesses, Deaf to the amazing things he has accomplished, yet you shut your eyes and claim it is all a trick. How can you be an objective observer? How can anyone accept your posts as well thought out?”

You guys are nutjobs. I could claim the exact same deafness, blindness, ignorance, intolerance etc. of you and have a symmetrical case. So get off your high horse.

“Don’t you find it at least strange that a boy of 14 in upstate NY, started a movement that drew many millions of people, Drained “un-drainable swamps, Designed and built cities, drew architectural plans, wrote books, inspired millions to better themselves preached of Christ with a doctrine that is still debated today and all this from a boy who had, if I remember correctly, a fourth grade education? No?”

You forgot the parts about fornicating with 40 women, ran a bank pyramid scheme, faked the writing of the Book of Mormon and got ran out of town on a rail just about everywhere he went.

“What have you done with your life?”

I’ve exposed a lot of Mormons as frauds - that ought to be worth a lot at judgement day. Which reminds me, it’s time to turn in the Temple Mormon who is cheating the IRS of taxes on about $5 million. He didn’t seem like such a nice guy the Christmas he and his son threatened to beat me up for asking where the books to the business were.

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