Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious Bigotry, alive and well today
Saundra Duffy

Posted on 05/04/2007 5:46:36 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy

They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious bigotry, alive and well today

May 4, 2007 - by Saundra Duffy-Hawkins

“I wouldn’t vote for a Mormon for dogcatcher, much less President of the United States!” There’s a lot of that kind of hateful rhetoric going around since Mitt Romney decided to throw his hat in the ring – as if Mormons are some kind of hideous evil monsters. The loudest anti-Mormon shouts, sad to say, are coming from America’s so-called “Christian right”. How can Mitt Romney hope to get a fair shake in this spiritually polluted atmosphere?

There was another man running for President who faced the same dilemma – John F. Kennedy – only he was the target of anti-CATHOLIC bigotry. In his 1960 speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, JFK said the following: “. . .I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end - where all men and all churches are treated as equal - where man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice - where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind - and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their words in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.” John F. Kennedy Library & Museum (Speeches, 1960). By the way, if you listen to the audio version of JFK’s speech, you will hear the hurt and frustration in his voice and the unfair treatment surely must have caused many a sleepless night.

Fast forward to 2007 where JFK might as well have been “whistlin’ Dixie”. The hostility toward Mormons today, in my opinion, is even worse than that suffered by JFK. Although it is said that JFK lost about a million votes to religious intolerance, Romney stands to lose even more if the anti-Mormon evangelicals hang together.

According to Media Matters for America - “. . . a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media” - FOX News is not reporting accurately on the level of evangelical hostility to the Romney run. Media Matters for America points out that among evangelical leaders rejecting Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson (National Day of Prayer and Focus on the Family, respectively), the Southern Baptist Convention (collectively), Pat Robertson (Christian Broadcasting Network), and Dr. D. James Kennedy (Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Florida). “Among many conservative evangelicals – who comprise a significant part of the Republican base – Mormonism is considered an un-Christian cult.” Media Matters for America (2007)

While stumping in Florida, a man in the audience stood up during the Q&A portion and said the following to Romney: “You, sir, you’re a pretender. You do not know the Lord. You’re a Mormon.” Media Matters for America (2007). This is the kind of un-American, disrespectful treatment Mitt Romney will apparently have to endure throughout the entire campaign – as if just being a Mormon is reason enough to open the floodgates for free flow of pent-up hatred and vindictiveness.

For the record, the Mormon bashers know full well that the official name of Romney’s church is “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” and the members should rightfully be called “members of the LDS Church” but the words “Mormon” and “Mormonism” have an aura of negativity so they prefer to use the “M” word as if it were dirty.

Less than five minutes cruising around the official LDS website (LDS.org) will show anyone who’s interested that the Church is a Christian organization, with Jesus Christ at the Head. There are no paid clergy – all are volunteers. Humanitarian aid is legendary. Members of the LDS Church believe in strong family values; they are patriotic, they are law-abiding upstanding citizens of their community. Many LDS young men right out of high school go on two-year missions – you know, the guys on bikes – and during their mission they don’t date, read newspapers, go to movies or watch TV; but rather they dedicate two years of their lives to serving others. Many women go on missions as well, and couples, only theirs is 18 months in length but the obligations are basically the same. Most members do not shop or go out to eat on Sundays – reminiscent of the good old days when shops and stores were closed in obedience to the Commandment, “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy”. If they can help it, LDS Church members do not work on Sundays, either, preferring to spend the day at church and with their families. Church members are encouraged to store up a year’s supply of food and water so they will be able to care for their families in the event of an emergency. The LDS Church believes in self-sufficiency and self-reliance but in the event of a financial hardship the Church distributes food and supplies through their welfare (Bishop’s Storehouse) program. Members of the LDS Church do not drink alcohol nor do they use illicit drugs; they do not drink coffee and tea. A Mormon in good standing, therefore, will not be found in a drunken stupor puking her guts out at 3 a.m. anywhere in the world. Furthermore, members of the church are encouraged to dress modestly, be polite and courteous. And members of the LDS Church are faithful tithe payers. Come on, people, what’s not to love?

So what on earth is their beef, the anti-Mormon zealots? Why is there such disdain for the LDS Church and its members? In Hugh Hewitt’s book, “Mormon in the White House?” he states his thesis that the fierce anti-Mormon sentiment among main-stream Christians stems from one or two or all three of the following factors (in order of importance):

1) “It is just too weird.

2) “A Mormon president will supercharge Mormons’ missionary work.

3) “If there is a Mormon in the White House, Salt Lake City will call the shots, at least on the biggest issues.” Hewitt (2007, p. 221-227)

Hugh Hewitt has written an exquisite book about the Romney campaign and overcoming the “Mormon problem.” It’s a good read and I highly recommend it. Of the three problem points listed in the previous paragraph, Hewitt believes – unless some unforeseen blunder destroys his chances – none of the three is insurmountable for Mitt Romney. (Plus, he has the best hair.)

Well, I’m no Hugh Hewitt, not even close; he’s an icon on the conservative radio talk show circuit. Hewitt could talk circles around me (I’ve seen him in action in Sacramento); he’s brilliant; he’s well educated, well read, no doubt a genius, plus he’s kind of cute. I’m basically a “nobody” – an overweight grandma – but after having researched for this paper, I have come to a totally different conclusion as to why there is such in-your-face angst over Romney’s religion of choice: It’s all about money, power and control (in that order). I think they’re (the evangelical religious bigots, that is) scared half to death and are revving up their attacks, not to save souls, but to save their reputations (which if tarnished would lead to financial ruin).

As I said, all one must do is browse around the LDS official web site to see what the LDS Church believes and stands for. Any reasonable person would conclude that Mormons are not evil monsters at all. In fact, they are God fearing, Christ believing, Holy Ghost following people going about doing good. “You will know them by their fruit” and the LDS has plenty of fruit and they are willing to share.

Earlier, I stated that some high-powered ministries have publicly condemned Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson, the Southern Baptist Convention, Pat Robertson, and Dr. D. James Kennedy – just to name a few. There are hoards of others. Sunday after Sunday, preachers, evangelists, reverends and ministers from all Christian denominations pound the pulpit with anti-Mormon rhetoric. I heard the message loud clear when I was a Baptist and when I tiptoed through evangelical/Pentecostal territories. Was I ever miffed when I later learned for myself the Gospel truth about the LDS Church.

Just think about it, please. If Dr. D. James Kennedy, for example, who wrote the book, The Wolves Among Us, were to admit he’d been wrong in labeling the LDS Church a “cult” that leads unwary ignorant people astray (to hell), what would become of his multi-million-dollar ministry? Suffice it to say, there’s big money to be had by sale of books, tapes, CD’s, videos, and other anti-Mormon propaganda, not to mention speaking engagements and world-wide religious crusades. We’re talking trillions, all told. I realize the anti-Mormon aspect of these ministries is but a small portion of the business, but if the truth came out, that they had been using falsehoods about the LDS Church as a cash cow, their entire empires could tumble.

The ABC News program 20/20 aired on March 23, 2007, exposed the lavish lifestyles of some of the top evangelical preachers – million dollar mansions and personal jets. ABC News - 20/20 (2007) (Again, the LDS Church has no paid clergy.)

It’s nothing new. Severe harassment and persecution has been the lot of the LDS Church since it’s inception in 1820 when a 14-year-old boy named Joseph Smith saw visions and communed with heavenly beings. Rather than discuss the spiritual aspects of the LDS Church, however, let’s stick to facts of history. Taken from a college-level early American history textbook, Joseph Smith, upon experiencing the visions and visitations, believed “that God had work for me to do, and that my name should be for good and evil among all nations, kindreds and tongues.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 292). The textbook continues, “They were met with hostility virtually everywhere they went . . . . As the movement gathered momentum, hundreds of people joined the church; entire congregations of churches of other faiths joined . . .” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 293)

During the dark time of American history when slavery was flourishing and when Native Americans were forced from their lands, the pioneers of the LDS Church also suffered at the hands of unscrupulous politicians, governmental leaders, and angry hate-filled mobs. “In the face of relentless persecution, Joseph Smith, the founder of the church, had led his flock to Illinois. There they had established the town of Nauvoo, which by the mid-1840’s had become the largest city in Illinois with over 15,000 people. . . In June 1844, a mob of non-Mormons broke into the jail where Smith was being held and killed both him and his brother. . .The Mormons abandoned Nauvoo in the spring of 1846 as anti-Mormons pounded the town with cannon, destroying the Great Temple. In a well-coordinated migration, 15,000 Mormons moved in stages to the Great Salt Lake.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 334-335) Many walked all the way and many died along the way, including innocent babes.

Joseph Smith at one time was tarred and feathered by a mob. No jury, no trial, no judge – and they had planned to castrate him, too. On October 27, 1838, the then governor of Missouri issued an “extermination order”: “The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the State if necessary . . .” Far West History (n.d.) Please note that the order called for exterminating “Mormons” making no distinction between men, women and children, and indeed women and children were subject to the extermination order.

In an event known in LDS history as “the Haun’s Mill Massacre”, precipitated by the extermination order, 30 to 40 LDS families were surprised by some 200 to 250 militia. After the smoke cleared, seventeen LDS people lay dead including a ten-year-old boy. Thirteen LDS members were wounded including a woman and a seven-year-old boy. “A few Missourians returned the next day and took plunder.” LDS FAQ (n.d.) No Missouri militiamen were killed but three were wounded. Just a few years earlier, the LDS folk who died that day had been members of other churches - Congregational or Methodist or Baptist or Presbyterian.

In l976, Governor Bond of Missouri officially rescinded the extermination order and presented apologies for the “unfortunate developments” it caused. Quoting from Governor Bond’s Executive Order: “WHEREAS, Governor Boggs’ order clearly contravened the rights to life, liberty, property and religious freedom as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, as well as the Constitution of the State of Missouri; and . . . Expressing on behalf of all Missourians our deep regret for the injustice and undue suffering rescind Executive Order Number 44 dated October 27, 1838, issued by Governor W. Boggs. . .” Far West History (n.d.) The individuals who harassed, abused, and even murdered Mormons in cold blood were never tried for their crimes.

I read Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.’s Letter from Birmingham Jail and it really touched my heart. There he was, suffering for the Lord in jail, and these religious leaders with highfalutin titles on the outside wrote an open letter (“A Call for Unity”) in which they criticize King’s tactics and basically blame King for the racial turmoil of the time. Though you can tell King is upset and hurt by the attack – made worse because he’s stuck in jail and can’t confront the religious leaders face-to-face – his response is gentle genius. “I wish you had commended the Negro sit-inners and demonstrators of Birmingham for their sublime courage, their willingness to suffer, and their amazing discipline in the midst of great provocation. One day the South will recognize its real heroes.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 881)

King has a few choice words for the Church, too: “If today’s church does not recapture the sacrificial spirit of the early church, it will lose its authenticity, forfeit the loyalty of millions, and be dismissed as an irrelevant social club with no meaning for the twentieth century. Every day I meet young people whose disappointment with the church has turned into outright disgust.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 880)

King signs off with “Yours for the cause of Peace and Brotherhood”.

There’s an eerie commonality between what JFK and MLK endured at the hands of the religious bigots of their day and what Mitt Romney is facing today. I hope and pray that Romney will be able to fend off these undeserved attacks from the religious hypocrites with the same grace, dignity and God-inspired resolve displayed by the other two.

A few popular bumper stickers read: “Honk if you love Jesus” and “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven” or “Jesus is my co-pilot”. Yet, apparently, these same bumper-sticker Christians are the ones waging war against Mitt Romney’s run for the Presidency solely on the basis of his chosen faith in a Church that bears the name of the Savior of the world.

References

ABC News - 20/20 (2007). Philanthropic donations come from your heart, but where do they end up? Ex-money manager says "enough!" to secretive Christian Ministry spending. Glenn Ruppel & John Stossel. United States: ABC News.

Ayers, E. L., Gould, L. L., Oshinsky, D. M., & Soderlund, J. R. (2004). American Passages - a history of the United States - Volume I: to 1877 (2nd ed.). Belmont, California: Thomson/Wadsworth.

Barnet, S., & Bedau, H. (2005). Letter from Birmingham Jail. Current Issues and Enduring Questions - a guide to critical thinking and argument, with readings (7th ed., pp. 867-882). Boston and New York: Bedford/St. Martin's.

Far West History. (n.d.). The Extermination Order and how it was rescinded. Retrieved April 28, 2007, from http://www.jwha.info/mmff/exorder.htm

Hewitt, H. (2007). A Mormon in the White House? 10 things every American should know about Mitt Romney. Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing, Inc.

John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum. (1960, September 12). Address of Senator John F. Kennedy to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://www.jfklibrary.org

Lds Faq. (n.d.). What was the Haun's Mill Massacre? Retrieved April 28-2007, 2004, from Brigham Young University Web Site: http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/view.asp?q=57

Media Matters for America. (2007). Fox News whitewashes evangelical hostility to Romney's faith. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://mediamatters.org/items/printable/200702280002


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: boggsforgovernor; cuespookymusic; election; lds; mormon; mormons; romney; whitesalamanderblues
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 2,701-2,7202,721-2,7402,741-2,760 ... 2,981-2,983 next last
To: DelphiUser; Bonaparte
Why would you poison your cookies? You are limiting your profits (not prophets, but profits). You need not poison your Cookies if you have a great recipe, but you might put something in them to make them addictive, that way you could make more money.

Well, to take your suggestion (since I hadn't even thought of that analogy until I wrote you), the cookie recipe dude making all the dough perhaps thought he was only making this cookie more "digestible" (ya gotta admit that the LDS faith just so "happens" to deal with several of the ongoing theological debates of the 1820s...age of accountability, eternal hell, the effect of baptism, etc...showing very plainly that this cookie was baked in the U.S. and not anywhere else--like from Kolob). In making this cookie more "digestible," said maker indeed added elements that were fatal--even if he wasn't sure what the end product would be.

If such a cookie-maker added one untested ingredient for digestibility, + another for addictive nature (what Bonaparte writes about), it would be a very potent cookie if it nabbed long-term customers. Even if they died 30 yrs down the line, I'll take a 30-year customer, especially if he comes to me because he tells me that the easy digestibility of the cookie helps his health and his stomach ailments.

2,721 posted on 05/16/2007 12:00:49 PM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2711 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

My sweet Bishop receives inspiration from the Savior for me and those in our Ward. I believe that with all my heart. The Prophet receives inspiration for me, too, and for everybody. Catholics believe the Pope speaks infallibly, right? I don’t understand why this is controversial.

I kind of feel sorry for our Bishop, by the way, because so many of us are so goofy and wayward. I try but when I fail I can always go to him for counsel. It is wonderful. I love my Church so much.


2,722 posted on 05/16/2007 12:06:32 PM PDT by Saundra Duffy ( Mitt has the best hair!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2713 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

Joseph Smith was in jail on charges of destroying a printing press. Most Conservatives value freedom of the press....it is a basic right framed in the Constitution.

He was killed while pending charges. It isn’t like he could have said, “Ahem..folks, I was just funnin’ wit ya.”

Those were serious charges. It didn’t help that the public was pretty charged up about the Mormon Militia, polygamy, and usurped political power. His time had come and he knew it. That’s why he tried to run away, and had in fact escaped into Iowa before Emma pleaded with him to return and turn himself over to authorities. He knew he was a dead man, there wasn’t anything he could have done to stop it.


2,723 posted on 05/16/2007 12:13:35 PM PDT by colorcountry ("You step in crap once and spend the rest of your life scraping it off.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2719 | View Replies]

To: colorcountry
Joseph Smith was in jail on charges of destroying a printing press. Most Conservatives value freedom of the press....it is a basic right framed in the Constitution. He was killed while pending charges. It isn’t like he could have said, “Ahem..folks, I was just funnin’ wit ya.” Those were serious charges. It didn’t help that the public was pretty charged up about the Mormon Militia, polygamy, and usurped political power. His time had come and he knew it. That’s why he tried to run away, and had in fact escaped into Iowa before Emma pleaded with him to return and turn himself over to authorities. He knew he was a dead man, there wasn’t anything he could have done to stop it.

All very good points and historically accurate. The NT disciples, as far as tradition that I know of, we'ren't exactly engaged in mayhem totally unassociated with the spreading of the gospel.

So those who prop up the mythic portion of the circumstances surrounding JS' death usually conveniently ignore why he was imprisoned to begin with.

It seems the NT disciples, when they were arrested & imprisoned, were brought up on charges a bit more noble than "glass-looking," occultism, and embodying the destruction of the First Amendment.

I suppose if Mitt sent out folks to destroy the NY Times plant (minus any loss of life) because of its opposition to his candidacy, LDS folks would draft a myth that Mitt only lost his run for the Oval Office because this "martyr" was so ruthlessly attacked by the MSM after that "unmentionable" NY Times minor "incident."

2,724 posted on 05/16/2007 12:23:09 PM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2723 | View Replies]

To: DelphiUser
So if it’s inspiring, what’s your problem? How many religious documents “borrow” from scripture? Most? What if you feel inspired? Can God not work through a 14 year old boy? Is anything impossible for God?

Delf: I am not going to sit here and deny that many talks LDS leaders give would qualify as "inspiring." I will not deny that many portions of LDS "scriptures" also fall under this same category.

But if a secular pub like the NY Times can hold its own accountable for plagiarism (remember a certain Mr. Blair?), then the religious world can hold its own accountable for the same issue. If a secular writer can be "fired," then even a profit of old's status can be "fired."

And that dovetales w/your Q, "Is anything impossible for God?" No. Because look the Worldwide Church of God. Herbert W. Armstrong was this church's "prophet" & leader. It was a cult. He died. The leadership that followed not only reformed the church, but brought it into Christian orthodoxy. So is anything impossible for God? No way!!!

The Worldwide Church of God "fired" Herbie post-death. It did not do so without a cost. They lost members on this side of the veil; but they gained members for the other side.

Can God work through a 14 yo boy?

You're asking the wrong question. We don't need JoeSmith for that answer. (He already answered it w/a mid-teen girl named Mary, who delivered a certain babe otherwise known as "Josh" (Yeshua)].

The question isn't Can God...the question is Did God...?

You are correct. God can work thru whom He will. He doesn't need lowly FREEPERS telling him what He can or can't do. It's more of an evidential track record of "Did He?"

And if you examine ALL of the false prophecies made by Joseph, well, I just know my God isn't that sloppy. [Maybe that's where the term "Sloppy Joes" came from? :) Sorry, couldn't resist]

2,725 posted on 05/16/2007 12:35:04 PM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2711 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
Sometimes I wonder why folks have to make plain words not resemble what they mean.

Me too, Grin.

When Benson said "The Prophet is the Only Man who speaks for God," he didn't leave it at that. He added another two words at the end of that statement, words which you seem to ignore: "The Prophet is the Only Man who speaks for God in everything."

This does not change what I said and I did not eliminate these two words in my post for any particular reason, if I even did (not gonna even go look)

What you just said is the "non-controversial" angle because, Delf, who doesn't believe that God can't speak to them in prayer (for example)? [I mean, in you saying what you did...that God personally speaks to folks...I hope that doesn't put you way far out on some eccentric theological limb...:)]

I try never to go out on a limb unless I want to cut it off while I’m there (grin) no this is sound Mormon Doctrine God will testify to everyone though the HG, everyone is entitled to the guidance of the HG in their personal lives. IT would however be inappropriate for me to say to you “Hey God just told to tell you XYZ” because revelation just does not work that way. God would either A) tell you (preferred method) or if you are not listening B) tell someone else to say something and they would not know they were bearing revelation to you, but you might be inspired by their words. Or you might ask for a blessing from a priesthood holder and receive revelation that way, or Lastly, you might attend general conference and the prophet might address your issue directly. But IF you said, as did Benson, that the ONLY one who can prophesy truth resides in SLC, not only does that contradict what Paul told the Corinthians when he was talking about the gifts of the spirit, but it also means that LDS think that the only "cloud of prophesy" is permanently parked over SLC.

What ever you are taking, stop.

No one said that personal revelation came through SLC this is a red herring and it is so abused an misshapen of a herring that it is more mush than fish So, let's hear it straight from your mouth: Yes, you believe that all folks can hear "personal revelation" from God, but go on say it:

No Problem, ALL MEN ARE ENTITLED TO PERSONAL REVELATION!, happy?

You also believe any and all prophesies can only come from Zion...No, that's not right, Zion is in Independence, MO...strike that...can only come from SLC, the new spiritual Zion that's meant to replace the real geographical one.

LOL! You can’t eve keep your misinterpretations straight, come on!

All men are entitled to personal revelation and if God has a general announcement it will come from Salt Lake City, Moreover, if he has instructions for the whole church it will come from Salt Lake City, yet bishops can receive revelation for their ward’s needs, and ever step in between as needed for the stewardship they hold. It’s a beautiful system, I would even say Inspired.
2,726 posted on 05/16/2007 12:46:22 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2713 | View Replies]

To: colorcountry
Joseph Smith was born December 23, 1805, he didn't "start" the Church until 1827 at age 22 and didn't incorporate the Church or publish the BOM until he was 25 in 1830. Are you disputing these facts? It is your cookie that crumbles when we clearly point to a grown man charlatan instead of a 14 year old youth. Joseph Smith himself didn't write about his youthful "vision" until many years after it occured. Do you have any proof it occured when he was 14?

The BoM was written in In June 1828 - Smith allowed Martin Harris to take 116 pages of the manuscript to Palmyra to show Harris' wife (remember). At this time Joseph Smith was 24 years old and not an unwitting 14 year old innocent youth, but a married man.


I said “Movement” which you translated (erroneously as “Church”) Joseph smith started the movement by asking God for a revelation and receiving an answer. He was 14. The church as you so ably pointed out took 8 years to get started form the time Joseph saw his first vision.
2,727 posted on 05/16/2007 12:52:02 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2714 | View Replies]

To: Netizen
None of those are part of the law.

Yes, but the book of Enoch would have been since it predated Moses.
2,728 posted on 05/16/2007 12:53:10 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2716 | View Replies]

To: FastCoyote

Hey FC,

Funny how now you claim to have “studied” religions.

No more loose “mormon” women or bad business deals with “mormons” to really sour your mood?

Tell us how you really came to feel the way you feel or shall I enlighten the crowd?

You made your cot.

SZ


2,729 posted on 05/16/2007 12:55:05 PM PDT by SZonian (Fighting Caliphobia one detractor at a time)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2699 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
First of all, Joe was trying all he could do behind the scenes (via others) to be moved. He wasn't exactly a "volunteer" for such martyrdom. Hence, that's why he brandished a weapon in self-defense when his cell was attacked. Joe killed & wounded some of his attackers before being killed...understandable, mind you, but not exactly befitting his mythic martyr role if he was so "voluntary" in giving his life. If anything, he was doing all he could to avoid such martyrdom.

Joseph knew he was going to die and said so. He was trying to save the others, his brother among them, and he said so. You ignore the evidence of reality at your peril for the further form it you get, the closer you are to lunacy.
2,730 posted on 05/16/2007 12:57:09 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2719 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian; Bonaparte; FastCoyote; Netizen; tantiboh; sevenbak; Utah Girl; Saundra Duffy; ...
Well, to take your suggestion (since I hadn't even thought of that analogy until I wrote you), the cookie recipe dude making all the dough perhaps thought he was only making this cookie more "digestible" (ya gotta admit that the LDS faith just so "happens" to deal with several of the ongoing theological debates of the 1820s...age of accountability, eternal hell, the effect of baptism, etc...showing very plainly that this cookie was baked in the U.S. and not anywhere else--like from Kolob). In making this cookie more "digestible," said maker indeed added elements that were fatal--even if he wasn't sure what the end product would be.

If such a cookie-maker added one untested ingredient for digestibility, + another for addictive nature (what Bonaparte writes about), it would be a very potent cookie if it nabbed long-term customers. Even if they died 30 yrs down the line, I'll take a 30-year customer, especially if he comes to me because he tells me that the easy digestibility of the cookie helps his health and his stomach ailments.


You argument crumbles again. And your argument is only half-baked, Joseph was a prophet, so of course he asked what was on his mind and got answers, so of course he got answers to the questions of the day.
Explain why he was told smoking was bad for you, and alcohol, all in a day when they were thought to be health promoting, Explain the Chiasmus in the book of Mormon.
Expalin the fact that the Book of Moses, and the book of Abraham are now backed up by the book of Enoch in many of their teachings.
Explain the witness of men and women of the past and the present who testify of him.
Explain why in the face of adversity that the enemies of the church were sure would destroy the church that it has prospered.
Explain away the testimonies of the witnesses of the Book of Mormon who did not recant even in the most dire circumstances their testimonies.
Explain the martyrdom of Joseph Smith
Explain why his name is had for good and ill, just as he prophesied it would be.
Explain why you and yours find “No Evidence” of Joseph as a prophet unless it is that there truly are none so blind as those who will not see.

Explain yourself, Sir.
2,731 posted on 05/16/2007 1:17:44 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2721 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian; FastCoyote; Netizen
Delf: I am not going to sit here and deny that many talks LDS leaders give would qualify as "inspiring." I will not deny that many portions of LDS "scriptures" also fall under this same category.

Each cat to his own rat, as the saying goes, not all the bible inspires me either, the OT “begat’s” section comes to mind…

But if a secular pub like the NY Times can hold its own accountable for plagiarism (remember a certain Mr. Blair?), then the religious world can hold its own accountable for the same issue. If a secular writer can be "fired," then even a profit of old's status can be "fired."

The author can never be accused of plagiarism, god is listed as the author of both, what’s the problem again?

And that dovetales w/your Q, "Is anything impossible for God?" No. Because look the Worldwide Church of God. Herbert W. Armstrong was this church's "prophet" & leader. It was a cult. He died. The leadership that followed not only reformed the church, but brought it into Christian orthodoxy. So is anything impossible for God? No way!!! The Worldwide Church of God "fired" Herbie post-death. It did not do so without a cost. They lost members on this side of the veil; but they gained members for the other side. Can God work through a 14 yo boy? You're asking the wrong question. We don't need JoeSmith for that answer. (He already answered it w/a mid-teen girl named Mary, who delivered a certain babe otherwise known as "Josh" (Yeshua)]. The question isn't Can God...the question is Did God...?

No problem, Yes he did.

You are correct. God can work thru whom He will. He doesn't need lowly FREEPERS telling him what He can or can't do. It's more of an evidential track record of "Did He?"

No problem, Yes he did.

And if you examine ALL of the false prophecies made by Joseph, well, I just know my God isn't that sloppy. [Maybe that's where the term "Sloppy Joes" came from? :) Sorry, couldn't resist] Have you heard of Jonah?

I am not asking you to believe, I honestly believe you are beyond that. I am telling you, you do not know what I believe, and you do not have the right to Tell me what I believe, or to tell others what I believe, you cannot tell if I am a Christian, You cannot prove my faith wrong for I have received a witness from he who never lies and I am not so sure about some posters on this forum.

You claim to be in support of truth. I tell you truly, denigrating the faith of others good humored or not does your soul no good.

Have a good day, learn something, grin
2,732 posted on 05/16/2007 1:32:45 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2725 | View Replies]

To: DelphiUser

Yep, that’s what I said.


2,733 posted on 05/16/2007 1:34:36 PM PDT by colorcountry ("You step in crap once and spend the rest of your life scraping it off.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2727 | View Replies]

To: DelphiUser

There was no “movement” when Joseph was 14. I’ll grant you that a 14 year old boy may receive dreams, visions and the likes, but the “movement” (because he did not “move”) started ten years later.

Quit already, with the misinformation will ya.


2,734 posted on 05/16/2007 1:38:53 PM PDT by colorcountry ("You step in crap once and spend the rest of your life scraping it off.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2727 | View Replies]

To: colorcountry
There was no “movement” when Joseph was 14. I’ll grant you that a 14 year old boy may receive dreams, visions and the likes, but the “movement” (because he did not “move”) started ten years later.

Quit already, with the misinformation will ya.


I cannot misinform about my beliefs for I am th only one who can state them with surety.

Have you ever moved something massive? At first the movement is small, but it has started. As you build up speed, it may become difficult to pinpoint a milestone and say “There, that is where it started”. You want to pick the official creation of the church? Fine you may do so, and you may use the word church as what is starting in your posts. Do not call me a liar because you misinterpret my clear speech.

I said movement, not church.

To purposefully misinform is to lie and I am being scrupulously accurate here.
2,735 posted on 05/16/2007 1:49:46 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2734 | View Replies]

To: DelphiUser

Okay in a lighter vein....I know you will appreciate this Delphi.

Listen to this traffic reporter, and guess which State she is from.

http://www.dooce.com/audio/fm100.mp3


2,736 posted on 05/16/2007 1:57:14 PM PDT by colorcountry ("You step in crap once and spend the rest of your life scraping it off.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2735 | View Replies]

To: DelphiUser
Praise to the Man
2,737 posted on 05/16/2007 2:20:53 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Fred sez "I'm not interested in being the tallest midget in the room.." RUN FRED RUN!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2700 | View Replies]

To: colorcountry

ROTFLOL! Keeper, what was she thinking?


2,738 posted on 05/16/2007 2:25:24 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2736 | View Replies]

To: DelphiUser
“non believers” (is that better than Antis?)

Very good.

2,739 posted on 05/16/2007 2:26:53 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Fred sez "I'm not interested in being the tallest midget in the room.." RUN FRED RUN!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2706 | View Replies]

To: Saundra Duffy

Mormonism

Mormonism, known as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (with headquarters in Salt Lake City, Utah — a state that is now 70% Mormon), was officially founded in 1830 by Joseph Smith Jr. (1805-1844). Smith claimed to have had a personal visit from God the Father at the age of 15, who introduced him to Christ.1 Jesus then supposedly told him not to join any church because they were all wrong and all the Christian church’s doctrines “were an abomination” (Joseph Smith — History 19, Pearl of Great Price). After Smith’s murder in 1844, Brigham Young took the cult to Utah, where there is now a major University named after him, and the number of Mormons exceed one million. The Mormon Church currently claims about 11 million baptized members worldwide (5.2 million U.S., ranking it 5th among the largest 25 U.S. denominations), up from about 2.5 million in 1970. 1970. Over the last decade, nearly 300,000 individuals over the age of eight have joined the Mormon Church every year. Membership is expected to grow to over 23 million over the next two decades. It is growing fastest in Latin America and Asia. Official publications include Church News, a weekly 16-page newspaper, and the Ensign, a monthly magazine.

The Mormon Church collects at least $6 billion a year from its members, and generates at least another $5 billion in sales from its various business enterprises; total church assets exceed $30 billion. (At least 100 companies are controlled by the Mormon Church, and some estimate its total annual revenues in excess of $20 billion! The church also owns 18 radio stations in the U.S.) Part of the Church’s income goes to operate an elaborate internal welfare system so its members avoid any governmental assistance. The Mormon Church also has a 58,000-plus missionary force working in more than 160 nations in 102 languages. The Church’s Provo, Utah, 26-acre Missionary Training Center receives 500 new missionaries a week into its 3-9 week intensive missionary training program. (All boys, once they turn 19, are expected to dedicate two years of their lives to missionary service.) Fielding missionaries is a $500 million per year effort and currently reaps more than 300,000 new converts each year. Nevertheless, only about 46% of Mormons attend a church meeting at least once a month. (The clean-cut image that Mormons have attained has been a major factor in the attractiveness of the Mormon Church to outsiders. They are forbidden to drink coffee, tea, and alcoholic beverages, and use tobacco products.)

The Mormon church (LDS) is organized so that one prophet leads the church. Beneath the prophet in authority is the Council of the Twelve Apostles. A third group of men are called the First and Second Councils of the Seventy. All of these men together are called the General Authorities. Local churches are called Wards or Stake Centers and meet for worship in what the Mormons call “meetinghouses.” The Temples are not for worship, but are used for ceremonies for the living and the dead. Less than ten percent of all LDS members are allowed to enter these structures.

As of year-end 2002, there were 114 operating temples of Mormondom worldwide, with another 14 under construction or approved (albeit less elaborate than the 50 temples in existence at the end of 1997). (Approximately 65,000 members must be in an immediate area to qualify for a temple.) Temples are required for Mormon marriages and for proxy baptisms of ancestors. Most people assume Mormon temples are places of worship. This is not true. Only secret, occult rituals for the living and the dead are performed there, and Mormons think they must perform them to have eternal life. It is tragic that over eleven million Mormons think they need secret handshakes, oaths, incantations, and rituals, which originated in occultic Scottish Rite Freemasonry, in order to be with God in heaven! (In the final years of Joseph Smith Jr.’s life, he became a “worshipful master” in the Masonic Lodge.)

Many today are under the false impression that Mormonism is merely another Christian denomination, when in actuality, Mormon beliefs are not only unbiblical, but anti-Christian. Below are the highlights of what Mormons believe concerning their source of authority, the Trinity, God, Christ, the Holy Spirit, sin, salvation, and heaven and hell:

1. Source of Authority. Mormonism teaches that the canon of Scripture was not closed when the Bible was completed. They have three sources in addition to the Bible, all of which they believe contain God’s revelations — the Book of Mormon 2 (changed in more than 4,000 places since 1830), Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. However, Mormons follow the teachings of these three books even when they contradict the Bible. For example, Mormonism teaches that the Bible is the Word of God “as far as it is translated correctly.” Then whenever a Mormon belief contradicts Scripture, the Mormons say that particular part of Scripture is translated incorrectly, and that the correct translation is in one of the Mormon scriptures (The Maze of Mormonism, p. 131). Thereby, the Bible is rejected as the infallible Word of God. [e.g. “The Bible is considered usable, but suspect due to its many errors and missing parts” (Articles of Faith No. 8, Ensign, January 1989, pp. 25, 27).

2. Trinity. Mormonism teaches polytheism (versus monotheism taught in the Bible), believing that the universe is inhabited by many gods who produce spirit children. Joseph Smith declared, “I will preach on the plurality of Gods. I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370). Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie spoke about the Godhead in this way, “Plurality of Gods: Three separate personages: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, comprise the Godhead. As each of these persons is a God, it is evident, from this standpoint alone, that a plurality of Gods exists. To us, speaking in the proper finite sense, these three are the only Gods we worship. But in addition there is an infinite number of holy personages, drawn from worlds without number, who have passed on to exaltation and are thus gods” (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 576-577).

3. God. In Mormon theology, the god of our planet is believed to have once been a man on another planet, who through self-effort and the help of his own father-god, was appointed by a counsel of gods in the heavens to his high position as the god of planet Earth, and now has a physical, resurrected, glorified body. Mormonism teaches that through the atonement of Christ and by their good deeds and “holy” living, men can one day become gods, and with their multiplicity of “goddess wives,” populate their own planets. (This is what the celestial marriage and the Mormon temple vows are all about.) Mormon theology, therefore, humanizes God and deifies man.3

4. Christ. Mormonism acknowledges the divinity of Christ, but as noted above, Mormon doctrine on what constitutes divinity falls seriously short of the Biblical standard. Mormonism teaches that Jesus, Lucifer, and all the demons, as well as all mankind, are actually all spirit brothers and sisters, born in the spirit world as spirit babies to our man-god Heavenly Father and his goddess wives. Mormon leaders have consistently taught that God the Father (”Adam-god”) had sexual relations on earth with Mary (his own spirit daughter), to produce the physical body of Jesus. Early Mormon apostles also asserted that Christ was a polygamist, and that His wives included Mary and Martha (the sisters of Lazarus) and Mary Magdalene.4

5. Holy Spirit. In Mormonism, a distinction is drawn between the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit. As LDS Apostle Marion G. Romney stated: “The Holy Ghost is a person, a spirit, the third member of the Godhead” (Ensign, May 1977, pp. 43-44). The sixth LDS prophet, Joseph F. Smith, explains that the Holy Spirit is not a person but rather an impersonal force: “You may call it the Spirit of God, you may call it the influence of God’s intelligence, you may call it the substance of his power; no matter what it is called, it is the spirit of intelligence that permeates the universe” (Mormon Doctrine, McConkie, pp. 752-753).

6. Sin. In Mormon theology, it is not quite clear how the first humans, Adam and Eve, came to live on this earth and received bodies, but somehow they did and began the process of human procreation, whereby bodies are produced for their spirit children. But at the very beginning of the process of human generation, sin entered necessarily. The earthly bodies of Adam and Eve were intended to be immortal tabernacles for their spirits, “but it was necessary for them to possess through mortality and be redeemed through the sacrifice made by Jesus Christ that the fullness of life might come.” Therefore, they disobeyed God’s commands. Since the fall of man was necessary, it became necessary for men to disobey God in order to do His will. Adam’s fall, thereby, was a fall “upward.”5 Concerning the transmission of sin to Adam’s posterity, Mormons take a negative position — they believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression. Having rejected the doctrine of the imputation of the guilt of sin, Latter-Day Saints likewise repudiate the transmission of inherent corruption or original sin.

7. Salvation. Mormon theology teaches that the atonement of Christ was essential to our salvation and eternal life with God, but that it is not sufficient. Christ’s shed blood on the cross provides for universal resurrection of all people, but does not pay for personal sins; according to Mormonism, only Christ’s blood shed in the Garden of Gethsemane atones for personal sin. Besides faith in Christ, complete and permanent repentance of all sin as well as many good works are required.6 Mormonism also teaches that one must be baptized in water to be saved (baptismal regeneration), and that salvation will also be available in the next world for those “missing-out” in this one. Therefore, Mormons avidly pursue genealogy and practice baptism for the dead.7

8. Heaven and Hell. Mormonism teaches that there are three degrees of glory: Celestial (for good Mormons able to cease sinning in this lifetime — see endnote #6 below), Terrestrial (for good people who do not comply with all the teachings of Mormonism), and Telestial (for those who have lived unclean earthly lives). (See also Mormon Doctrines, p. 348.) Mormonism teaches that there is a hell, but only for the “sons of perdition,” a very small number of souls that cannot be redeemed. According to Mormonism, then, the vast majority of mankind will be “saved,” though it should be obvious that no one will make it to the Celestial Kingdom. [Blacks used to be totally out of the equation: “Black people are black because of their misdeeds in the pre-existence” (Three Degrees of Glory, LDS Apostle Melvin J. Ballard, p. 21); “The Negro is an unfortunate man. He has been given a black skin. But that is nothing compared with that greater handicap. He is not permitted to receive the priesthood and the ordinances of the temple, necessary to prepare men and women to enter into and enjoy a fullness of glory in the Celestial Kingdom” (Elder George E. Richards). In 1978, however, the Mormon Church announced that God had lifted his curse from the African race.]

9. Temple Rituals. A typical temple ceremony would take place as follows: “The ritual began in a small cubicle where we had to strip completely. We then put on ‘the shield,’ a poncho with a hole for the head, but open on the sides (similar to a hospital gown). We went through a series of ‘washings and anointings,’ as various parts of our bodies were touched by elderly temple workers who mumbled appropriate incantations over them. Our Mormon underwear, ‘the garments,’ are said to have powers to protect us from ‘the evil one.’ It had occult markings, which were so ‘sacred’ that we were instructed to burn them when the garments wore out. The endowment ceremony mocked all doctrines held to by Biblical Christianity, and Christian pastors were portrayed as servants of Satan. We had to swear many blood oaths, promising we would forfeit our lives if we weren’t faithful, or if we revealed any of the secrets revealed to us in the temple ceremonies. We were made to pretend by grotesque gestures to cut our throats, chests, and abdomens, indicating how we would lose our lives. We were never told who would kill us! The inference was, and history testifies to, that it would be the Mormon priesthood.” (Testimony of a former Mormon.) [Note: The blood oaths and portrayal of Christian pastors were removed in April of 1990, despite the fact that the ordinance was purported to have been given originally by a revelation and was never to be changed.]

10. More from the Mouths of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.

Joseph Smith

“God made Aaron to be the mouthpiece for the children of Israel, and He will make me to be God to you in His stead, and the elders to be mouth for me; and if you don’t like it, you must lump it” (Documentary History of the Church, vol. 6, pp 319-320).

“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I” (D.H C., vol. 6, p. 408-409).

“The whole Earth shall bear me witness that I, like the towering rock in the midst of the ocean, which has withstood the mighty surges of the warring waves for centuries, am impregnable ... I combat the errors of ages; I meet the violence of mobs; I cope with illegal proceedings from executive authority; I cut the gordian knot of powers, and I solve mathematical problems of universities, with truth — diamond truth; and God is my right hand man.” (D.H.C., Vol. 6, p. 78).

“And I prophesy in the name of the Lord God of Israel, unless the United States redress the wrongs committed upon the Saints in Missouri and punish the crimes committed by her officers that in a few years the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted and there will not be so much as a potsherd left, ...” (D.H C., vol. 5, p. 394). [This prophecy was made in May of 1843, and the United States government has not been overthrown and wasted.]

“Here then is eternal life — to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you...” (Teachings of the Prophet, Joseph Smith, p. 346).

“In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it” (Ibid., p. 349).

“The greatest responsibility in this world that God has laid upon us is to seek after our dead” [Our God of the Bible has forbidden us to have anything to do with the dead (Deut. 18:10,11).

Brigham Young

“I have never yet preached a sertuon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture. Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon, and it is as good a scripture” (Journa1 of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 95; also see vol. 13, p. 264).

“I say, rather than the apostates should flourish here, I will unsheath my Bowie knife, and conquer or die. [Great commotion in the congregation, and a simultaneous burst of feeling, assenting to the declaration.] Now, you nasty apostates, clear out, or judgment will be put on the line ... If you say it is right, raise your hands [All hands up], let us call upon the Lord to assist us in this, and every good work.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 83)

“I could refer you to plenty of instances where men have been righteously slain, in order to atone for their sins ... This is loving our neighbor as ourselves, if he needs help, help him, and if he wants salvation and it is necessary to spill his blood on the earth in order that he may be saved, spill it.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, p. 220). [Many were killed under what is called the “Blood Atonement Doctrine” Leaving Mormonism was one of the sins that the blood of Jesus could not atone for, and a person’s own blood must be shed by Mormon priests as an atonement for sin.]

“I intend to meet them on their own grounds. ... and if any miserable scoundrel comes here, cut their throats.” [And they obeyed; a wagon train of innocent men, women, and children were massacred at Mountain Meadows under the orders of Brigham Young. They were passing through Utah, and Brigham thought they were from Illinois where Joseph Smith had been killed. Many more were “atoned.”]

“Gold and silver grow, and so does every other kind of metal, the same as the hair upon my head or the wheat in the field; ...” (JOD., vol. 1, p. 219).

“Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening, called the Moon? ... So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the Sun. Do you not think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No Question of it; it was not made in vain.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 219).

“Do you think we shall ever be admitted as a State into the Union without denying the principal of polygamy? If we are not admitted until then, we shall never be admitted.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. 269). [The Edmunds Act was passed in 1882 forbidding polygamy in the territory, and only then was Utah allowed to enter the Union. At that point the LDS church officially gave up polygamy. Another false prophecy from the Mormon prophet!]

“I think these preliminaries will satisfy me, and I feel prepared to take my text. It is the words of Jesus Christ, but where they are in the Bible I cannot tell you now, for I have not taken pains to look at them. I have had so much to do, that I have not read the Bible for many years. I used to read and study it, but did not understand the spirit and meaning of it ...” (1854 Conference discourse, October 8). [Brigham Young obviously did not understand the Bible, and neither do any of the other Mormon prophets!]


* In recent years, Mormon leaders, including the church’s modern-day “Prophet,” Gordon B. Hinckley, have sought to align the LDS’ public teachings and practices with those of politically correct, global ecumenicism. But it is only until recently that Mormons wanted to be called “Christians,” preferring not to be included with Christian denominations, which Joseph Smith Jr. said were, “all wrong ... all their creeds were an abomination in His sight, and that those professors (Christians) were all corrupt” (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, 2:18-19); Mormons have preferred to be called “saints.” However, in the recent years, the LDS church has spent millions of dollars in an intense “PR” campaign aimed at moving the Mormon church into the mainstream of Christianity. The political and economic benefits of Mormons being included in the mainstream of Christianity are obvious. Further, for Mormons to be accepted as traditional Christians would greatly aid in proselytizing the members of Christian denominations into the LDS church. This is why the LDS church is trying so hard to present itself as Christian and is trying to overcome the stigma of being a cult (9/16/96, FBIS, “Are Mormons Christians,” by Cooper P. Abrams III). Moreover, Mormons let it be known in early-2001 that they no longer wanted to be referred to as “the Mormon Church,” “the Latter-day Saints Church,” or by “LDS Church.” If the name must be shortened, “the Church of Jesus Christ,” or “the Church” is acceptable, they said (3/19/01, USN&WR). [Back to Top]


# This report has been excerpted and/or adapted from two sources: (1) “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,” Rick Branch (Watchman Fellowship Profile, 1993); and (2) Examining & Exposing Cultic & Occultic Movements, Jack Sin, “What is Wrong with Mormonism,” April 2000, pp. 21-25.


Endnotes
1 The Bible lists six identifying marks of false prophets, any one of which is sufficient for identification: (1) through signs and wonders they lead astray after false gods (Dt. 13:1-4); (2) their prophecies don’t come to pass (Dt. 18:20-22); (3) they contradict God’s Word (Isa. 8:20); (4) they bear bad fruit (Mt. 7:18-20); (5) men speak well of them (Lk. 6:26); and (6) they deny that Jesus, the one and only Christ, has come once and for all in the flesh (1 Jn. 4:3), thereby denying His sufficiency in all matters of life and godliness (2 Pe. 1:3). Most cults are founded upon false prophecies, which, if pointed out, offer an effective way to open blind eyes and rescue cultists. Mormonism boasts of its prophets — but they have all been false. In the course of 18 years, founding prophet Joseph Smith made 64 specific prophecies. Only six of them were fulfilled — fewer than 10 percent. Many of his proclamations dealt with the future of his church. For example, in August of 1831 he stated that God had told him, “The faithful among you shall be preserved and rejoice together in the land of Missouri.” In September of 1832, he stated that the city of Independence would become the “New Jerusalem ... even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.” Six years later the Mormons were driven out of Independence. No temple was built there. Eventually they were driven from Missouri and settled in Utah. In 1833, Smith prophesied that the United States would suffer unparalleled multiple disasters (”pestilence, hail, famine, and earthquake”) which would sweep the wicked (non-Mormons) off the land, leaving Mormons safe in their Zion haven in Missouri. Instead, they fled to Utah. Among Smith’s many other false prophecies was the declaration in 1835 that Christ would return within 56 years and many living then would “not taste of death till Christ comes” (History of the Church [Vol. 2], p. 182; [Vol. 5], p. 336). Smith’s successor, Brigham Young, prophesied that the Civil War would not free the slaves. [Back to Text]

2 The Book of Mormon, purported by Joseph Smith Jr. to be “inspired by God,” is the most famous of specifically Mormon “scriptures.” Smith concocted the preposterous yarn that an angel named Moroni (pronounced ma-roe-nee) appeared to him in 1827 and told him of some golden plates hidden in a hillside near Palmyra, New York. From these plates, Smith supposedly translated the Book of Mormon. [Published in 1830, this was to become the first of many scriptures for the Mormon Church. By this time, Smith had also officially organized the LDS Church and was gaining a following. Over the next ten years, the church headquarters would move to Kirtland, Ohio; Independence, Missouri, and Far West, Missouri. Finally it would find a resting place in Nauvoo, Illinois.] In actuality, the Book of Mormon is a fraud, having been plagiarized from the Bible, from Shakespeare, from the pope’s Essays on Man, from the Westminster Confession of Faith, and from other leading authors of the last few hundred years prior to Smith’s death. Despite its plagiarisms, the Book of Mormon contradicts the Bible in hundreds of places (9/95, Maranatha Baptist Watchman). [Back to Text]

3 Joseph Smith explained, “I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did” (LDS History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 305). “The Father has promised us that through our faithfulness we shall be blessed with the fullness of his kingdom. In other words we will have the privilege of becoming like him. To become like him we must have all the powers of godhood; thus a man and his wife when glorified will have spirit children who eventually will go on an earth like this one we are on and pass through the same kind of experiences, being subject to mortal conditions, and if faithful, then they also will receive the fullness of exaltation and partake of the same blessings. There is no end to this development; it will go on forever. We will become gods and have jurisdiction over the world, and the world will be peopled by our own offspring. We will have an endless eternity for this” (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 2, p. 48). [Back to Text]

4 Brigham Young stated, “The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood, was begotten of his Father, as we were of our father” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8, p. 115). Mormon Apostle McConkie explained, “And Christ was born into the world as a literal Son this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. He was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events (Mormon Doctrine, p. 742). Jesus, according to Milton Hunter of the LDS First Council of the Seventy, is the brother of Lucifer: “The appointment of Jesus to be the Savior of the world was contested by one of the other sons of God. He was called Lucifer, son of the morning. Haughty, ambitious, and covetous of power and glory, this spirit-brother of Jesus desperately tried to become the Savior of mankind” (The Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15). [Back to Text]

5 On June 8, 1873, speaking from the Salt Lake City Tabernacle, Brigham Young said, “The Devil told the truth ... I do not blame Mother Eve. I would not have had her miss eating the forbidden fruit for anything. ...” Another Mormon president declared, “The fall of man came as a blessing in disguise... We can hardly look upon anything resulting in such benefits [i.e., godhood] as a sin.” Incredibly, Mormonism is based upon the belief that Satan’s central lie is the gospel truth! [Back to Text]

6 See: (1) Book of Mormon: 3 Nephi 27:13-27; Moroni 10:32-33; Mosiah 15:26-27; Alma 12:14-28; 34:32-35; 1 Nephi 3:7; (2) Doctrine & Covenants: 14:7; 58:42-43; and (3) Miracle of Forgiveness (Kimball): pp. 206-210, 313-315, 321-322, 354-355. [Back to Text]

7 Mormons believe that everyone who lives and dies on this earth goes to a place called the Spirit Prison, except faithful Mormons, who go to Paradise. Mormon Spirit Missionaries go down from Paradise to the Spirit Prison and teach the Gospel of Joseph Smith to the lost Christians and others there. Those who accept Mormonism must remain in prison until a worthy Mormon performs certain essential rituals, called “Ordinances,” for them in one of the Mormon Temples. Then they are released from Spirit Prison to join the Mormons in Paradise. Since these rituals or Ordinances require a physical body to be washed, anointed, baptized, etc., they can only be performed by a living person in the place and manner prescribed by Deity, acting under Universal (Mormon) cosmic laws.


2,740 posted on 05/16/2007 2:35:01 PM PDT by razorbak
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 2,701-2,7202,721-2,7402,741-2,760 ... 2,981-2,983 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson