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They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious Bigotry, alive and well today
Saundra Duffy

Posted on 05/04/2007 5:46:36 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy

They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious bigotry, alive and well today

May 4, 2007 - by Saundra Duffy-Hawkins

“I wouldn’t vote for a Mormon for dogcatcher, much less President of the United States!” There’s a lot of that kind of hateful rhetoric going around since Mitt Romney decided to throw his hat in the ring – as if Mormons are some kind of hideous evil monsters. The loudest anti-Mormon shouts, sad to say, are coming from America’s so-called “Christian right”. How can Mitt Romney hope to get a fair shake in this spiritually polluted atmosphere?

There was another man running for President who faced the same dilemma – John F. Kennedy – only he was the target of anti-CATHOLIC bigotry. In his 1960 speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, JFK said the following: “. . .I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end - where all men and all churches are treated as equal - where man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice - where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind - and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their words in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.” John F. Kennedy Library & Museum (Speeches, 1960). By the way, if you listen to the audio version of JFK’s speech, you will hear the hurt and frustration in his voice and the unfair treatment surely must have caused many a sleepless night.

Fast forward to 2007 where JFK might as well have been “whistlin’ Dixie”. The hostility toward Mormons today, in my opinion, is even worse than that suffered by JFK. Although it is said that JFK lost about a million votes to religious intolerance, Romney stands to lose even more if the anti-Mormon evangelicals hang together.

According to Media Matters for America - “. . . a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media” - FOX News is not reporting accurately on the level of evangelical hostility to the Romney run. Media Matters for America points out that among evangelical leaders rejecting Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson (National Day of Prayer and Focus on the Family, respectively), the Southern Baptist Convention (collectively), Pat Robertson (Christian Broadcasting Network), and Dr. D. James Kennedy (Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Florida). “Among many conservative evangelicals – who comprise a significant part of the Republican base – Mormonism is considered an un-Christian cult.” Media Matters for America (2007)

While stumping in Florida, a man in the audience stood up during the Q&A portion and said the following to Romney: “You, sir, you’re a pretender. You do not know the Lord. You’re a Mormon.” Media Matters for America (2007). This is the kind of un-American, disrespectful treatment Mitt Romney will apparently have to endure throughout the entire campaign – as if just being a Mormon is reason enough to open the floodgates for free flow of pent-up hatred and vindictiveness.

For the record, the Mormon bashers know full well that the official name of Romney’s church is “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” and the members should rightfully be called “members of the LDS Church” but the words “Mormon” and “Mormonism” have an aura of negativity so they prefer to use the “M” word as if it were dirty.

Less than five minutes cruising around the official LDS website (LDS.org) will show anyone who’s interested that the Church is a Christian organization, with Jesus Christ at the Head. There are no paid clergy – all are volunteers. Humanitarian aid is legendary. Members of the LDS Church believe in strong family values; they are patriotic, they are law-abiding upstanding citizens of their community. Many LDS young men right out of high school go on two-year missions – you know, the guys on bikes – and during their mission they don’t date, read newspapers, go to movies or watch TV; but rather they dedicate two years of their lives to serving others. Many women go on missions as well, and couples, only theirs is 18 months in length but the obligations are basically the same. Most members do not shop or go out to eat on Sundays – reminiscent of the good old days when shops and stores were closed in obedience to the Commandment, “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy”. If they can help it, LDS Church members do not work on Sundays, either, preferring to spend the day at church and with their families. Church members are encouraged to store up a year’s supply of food and water so they will be able to care for their families in the event of an emergency. The LDS Church believes in self-sufficiency and self-reliance but in the event of a financial hardship the Church distributes food and supplies through their welfare (Bishop’s Storehouse) program. Members of the LDS Church do not drink alcohol nor do they use illicit drugs; they do not drink coffee and tea. A Mormon in good standing, therefore, will not be found in a drunken stupor puking her guts out at 3 a.m. anywhere in the world. Furthermore, members of the church are encouraged to dress modestly, be polite and courteous. And members of the LDS Church are faithful tithe payers. Come on, people, what’s not to love?

So what on earth is their beef, the anti-Mormon zealots? Why is there such disdain for the LDS Church and its members? In Hugh Hewitt’s book, “Mormon in the White House?” he states his thesis that the fierce anti-Mormon sentiment among main-stream Christians stems from one or two or all three of the following factors (in order of importance):

1) “It is just too weird.

2) “A Mormon president will supercharge Mormons’ missionary work.

3) “If there is a Mormon in the White House, Salt Lake City will call the shots, at least on the biggest issues.” Hewitt (2007, p. 221-227)

Hugh Hewitt has written an exquisite book about the Romney campaign and overcoming the “Mormon problem.” It’s a good read and I highly recommend it. Of the three problem points listed in the previous paragraph, Hewitt believes – unless some unforeseen blunder destroys his chances – none of the three is insurmountable for Mitt Romney. (Plus, he has the best hair.)

Well, I’m no Hugh Hewitt, not even close; he’s an icon on the conservative radio talk show circuit. Hewitt could talk circles around me (I’ve seen him in action in Sacramento); he’s brilliant; he’s well educated, well read, no doubt a genius, plus he’s kind of cute. I’m basically a “nobody” – an overweight grandma – but after having researched for this paper, I have come to a totally different conclusion as to why there is such in-your-face angst over Romney’s religion of choice: It’s all about money, power and control (in that order). I think they’re (the evangelical religious bigots, that is) scared half to death and are revving up their attacks, not to save souls, but to save their reputations (which if tarnished would lead to financial ruin).

As I said, all one must do is browse around the LDS official web site to see what the LDS Church believes and stands for. Any reasonable person would conclude that Mormons are not evil monsters at all. In fact, they are God fearing, Christ believing, Holy Ghost following people going about doing good. “You will know them by their fruit” and the LDS has plenty of fruit and they are willing to share.

Earlier, I stated that some high-powered ministries have publicly condemned Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson, the Southern Baptist Convention, Pat Robertson, and Dr. D. James Kennedy – just to name a few. There are hoards of others. Sunday after Sunday, preachers, evangelists, reverends and ministers from all Christian denominations pound the pulpit with anti-Mormon rhetoric. I heard the message loud clear when I was a Baptist and when I tiptoed through evangelical/Pentecostal territories. Was I ever miffed when I later learned for myself the Gospel truth about the LDS Church.

Just think about it, please. If Dr. D. James Kennedy, for example, who wrote the book, The Wolves Among Us, were to admit he’d been wrong in labeling the LDS Church a “cult” that leads unwary ignorant people astray (to hell), what would become of his multi-million-dollar ministry? Suffice it to say, there’s big money to be had by sale of books, tapes, CD’s, videos, and other anti-Mormon propaganda, not to mention speaking engagements and world-wide religious crusades. We’re talking trillions, all told. I realize the anti-Mormon aspect of these ministries is but a small portion of the business, but if the truth came out, that they had been using falsehoods about the LDS Church as a cash cow, their entire empires could tumble.

The ABC News program 20/20 aired on March 23, 2007, exposed the lavish lifestyles of some of the top evangelical preachers – million dollar mansions and personal jets. ABC News - 20/20 (2007) (Again, the LDS Church has no paid clergy.)

It’s nothing new. Severe harassment and persecution has been the lot of the LDS Church since it’s inception in 1820 when a 14-year-old boy named Joseph Smith saw visions and communed with heavenly beings. Rather than discuss the spiritual aspects of the LDS Church, however, let’s stick to facts of history. Taken from a college-level early American history textbook, Joseph Smith, upon experiencing the visions and visitations, believed “that God had work for me to do, and that my name should be for good and evil among all nations, kindreds and tongues.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 292). The textbook continues, “They were met with hostility virtually everywhere they went . . . . As the movement gathered momentum, hundreds of people joined the church; entire congregations of churches of other faiths joined . . .” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 293)

During the dark time of American history when slavery was flourishing and when Native Americans were forced from their lands, the pioneers of the LDS Church also suffered at the hands of unscrupulous politicians, governmental leaders, and angry hate-filled mobs. “In the face of relentless persecution, Joseph Smith, the founder of the church, had led his flock to Illinois. There they had established the town of Nauvoo, which by the mid-1840’s had become the largest city in Illinois with over 15,000 people. . . In June 1844, a mob of non-Mormons broke into the jail where Smith was being held and killed both him and his brother. . .The Mormons abandoned Nauvoo in the spring of 1846 as anti-Mormons pounded the town with cannon, destroying the Great Temple. In a well-coordinated migration, 15,000 Mormons moved in stages to the Great Salt Lake.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 334-335) Many walked all the way and many died along the way, including innocent babes.

Joseph Smith at one time was tarred and feathered by a mob. No jury, no trial, no judge – and they had planned to castrate him, too. On October 27, 1838, the then governor of Missouri issued an “extermination order”: “The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the State if necessary . . .” Far West History (n.d.) Please note that the order called for exterminating “Mormons” making no distinction between men, women and children, and indeed women and children were subject to the extermination order.

In an event known in LDS history as “the Haun’s Mill Massacre”, precipitated by the extermination order, 30 to 40 LDS families were surprised by some 200 to 250 militia. After the smoke cleared, seventeen LDS people lay dead including a ten-year-old boy. Thirteen LDS members were wounded including a woman and a seven-year-old boy. “A few Missourians returned the next day and took plunder.” LDS FAQ (n.d.) No Missouri militiamen were killed but three were wounded. Just a few years earlier, the LDS folk who died that day had been members of other churches - Congregational or Methodist or Baptist or Presbyterian.

In l976, Governor Bond of Missouri officially rescinded the extermination order and presented apologies for the “unfortunate developments” it caused. Quoting from Governor Bond’s Executive Order: “WHEREAS, Governor Boggs’ order clearly contravened the rights to life, liberty, property and religious freedom as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, as well as the Constitution of the State of Missouri; and . . . Expressing on behalf of all Missourians our deep regret for the injustice and undue suffering rescind Executive Order Number 44 dated October 27, 1838, issued by Governor W. Boggs. . .” Far West History (n.d.) The individuals who harassed, abused, and even murdered Mormons in cold blood were never tried for their crimes.

I read Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.’s Letter from Birmingham Jail and it really touched my heart. There he was, suffering for the Lord in jail, and these religious leaders with highfalutin titles on the outside wrote an open letter (“A Call for Unity”) in which they criticize King’s tactics and basically blame King for the racial turmoil of the time. Though you can tell King is upset and hurt by the attack – made worse because he’s stuck in jail and can’t confront the religious leaders face-to-face – his response is gentle genius. “I wish you had commended the Negro sit-inners and demonstrators of Birmingham for their sublime courage, their willingness to suffer, and their amazing discipline in the midst of great provocation. One day the South will recognize its real heroes.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 881)

King has a few choice words for the Church, too: “If today’s church does not recapture the sacrificial spirit of the early church, it will lose its authenticity, forfeit the loyalty of millions, and be dismissed as an irrelevant social club with no meaning for the twentieth century. Every day I meet young people whose disappointment with the church has turned into outright disgust.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 880)

King signs off with “Yours for the cause of Peace and Brotherhood”.

There’s an eerie commonality between what JFK and MLK endured at the hands of the religious bigots of their day and what Mitt Romney is facing today. I hope and pray that Romney will be able to fend off these undeserved attacks from the religious hypocrites with the same grace, dignity and God-inspired resolve displayed by the other two.

A few popular bumper stickers read: “Honk if you love Jesus” and “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven” or “Jesus is my co-pilot”. Yet, apparently, these same bumper-sticker Christians are the ones waging war against Mitt Romney’s run for the Presidency solely on the basis of his chosen faith in a Church that bears the name of the Savior of the world.

References

ABC News - 20/20 (2007). Philanthropic donations come from your heart, but where do they end up? Ex-money manager says "enough!" to secretive Christian Ministry spending. Glenn Ruppel & John Stossel. United States: ABC News.

Ayers, E. L., Gould, L. L., Oshinsky, D. M., & Soderlund, J. R. (2004). American Passages - a history of the United States - Volume I: to 1877 (2nd ed.). Belmont, California: Thomson/Wadsworth.

Barnet, S., & Bedau, H. (2005). Letter from Birmingham Jail. Current Issues and Enduring Questions - a guide to critical thinking and argument, with readings (7th ed., pp. 867-882). Boston and New York: Bedford/St. Martin's.

Far West History. (n.d.). The Extermination Order and how it was rescinded. Retrieved April 28, 2007, from http://www.jwha.info/mmff/exorder.htm

Hewitt, H. (2007). A Mormon in the White House? 10 things every American should know about Mitt Romney. Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing, Inc.

John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum. (1960, September 12). Address of Senator John F. Kennedy to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://www.jfklibrary.org

Lds Faq. (n.d.). What was the Haun's Mill Massacre? Retrieved April 28-2007, 2004, from Brigham Young University Web Site: http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/view.asp?q=57

Media Matters for America. (2007). Fox News whitewashes evangelical hostility to Romney's faith. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://mediamatters.org/items/printable/200702280002


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: boggsforgovernor; cuespookymusic; election; lds; mormon; mormons; romney; whitesalamanderblues
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To: Colofornian; FastCoyote; Saundra Duffy
Californian obviously has a vast library.

"no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith"

Could you please include the entire paragraph. It is quite short.

He won't even tell us what church he goes to/ belongs to/ was baptized in. Why do you not tell us? Why the deception?

2,501 posted on 05/15/2007 3:06:50 PM PDT by DanielLongo (Don't tread on me)
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To: Netizen
So do you believe a person who never hears the word of God and is never baptized and dies in this state can be saved?

Obviously, Cornelius did not die without a knowledge of the Gospel. That is why he does not fit. Why not answer the question that I asked instead of dancing all around it.

2,502 posted on 05/15/2007 3:14:19 PM PDT by DanielLongo (Don't tread on me)
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To: Colofornian
I know at least in the 1990s that if you visited the LDS South Visitor Center there was one picture of Jesus on the main floor with a heading over an LDS Scriptural citation with the heading reading, "Jesus testifies of Joseph Smith."

I was there bot in the 90’s and sense, and I read it as to, not of, but maybe that’s just me.

There's been a tendency to run things a little backward in the LDS church, with LDS prophets Brigham Young and Joseph Fielding Smith saying that celestial-bound folks need the "consent of Joseph Smith" (BY, JoD, 7:289) and that there is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith" (DoS, 1:189-190). Even the LDS Melchizedek Priesthood Manual of '84 said: "If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [JS]; if we enter into our glory, it will be through the authority that he has received. We cannot get around him." (p. 133)

Every dispensation has a prophet tat the head, Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Joseph Smith. When Moses was trying to do all the governing himself, it was a mess, then he was counseled by his father to put men into groups and place men over them, Moses prayed about it, and organized the people into groups, thus it has been ever since. The head of this dispensation is Joseph Smith. (according to the LDS church)

Jesus can overrule anything Joseph smith does or says (according to us)

Joseph Smith does not replace Jesus Christ, but testifies of him and serves him.

You seem to have a real problem understanding Mormon authority structure, even when it is explained to you. Can you give us an idea why you cannot see our perspective? (not accept, just see) Maybe that would help us to give you better answers
2,503 posted on 05/15/2007 3:17:58 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser

Anybody have a better spell checker than the one that comes with word? I almost think I should just raw type like this!


2,504 posted on 05/15/2007 3:21:52 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser

You know, not to be cheeky, but the FR spell checker works pretty good. :)


2,505 posted on 05/15/2007 3:23:00 PM PDT by DanielLongo (Don't tread on me)
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To: DanielLongo; tantiboh; Alamo-Girl; Utah Girl; betty boop; Mr. Silverback; rhema; Caleb1411; ...
I did not side track you. Here is a verse that speaks to your question:
Jeremiah 17:10 I Jehovah do search the heart, try the reins, Even to give to each according to his way, According to the fruit of his doings.

Here is the relevance for what I tried to share with you and apparently I fumbled it: Cornelius was studying Judaism and heard of Jesus, as you may find in the context of the conversion story for Cornelius and his household, though Cornelius was still a gentile in Peter's eyes; those not in Judaism prior to the coming of Jesus were under the Noahic covenant and not under the law of Moses; the entire of creation testifies of God's existence and thus the verse in Jeremiah is relevant to the non-Jew and non-Christian ... and someone who has known nothing of Jesus is under the Noahic covenant and God measures the heart; little children are naturally faith exercisers and thus trust in what God gives them in the witness of creation in them and around them; 'being saved' is relevant to entering Heaven, as The Bride of Christ OR as a guest to the wedding, and there is ultimate implication for the Judgement Seat of Christ, eventually, for ALL will be resurrected to eternal life or one of two other fates, the lake of fire or oblivion; a little innocent child is the easiest soul for God to measure, as per Jeremiah, because that one is naturally exercising faith and trust.

We are often taught about hell fire, but there is another fate of man that is seldom dealt with, oblivion, dying and just dissipating into nothingness following the Great White Trone of Judgement, no reward or punishment. The punishment of Satan and his angels is called the lake of fire and some humans will have a portion in that punishment. But the Great White Throne of Judgement is a very different picture from the wedding of the Lamb and The Bride, and it is hallmarked by rewards and/or a command to 'depart from me, I never knew you.' Study that judgement scene and find the relevance to 'being saved' and you will have an answer to your question.

I mentioned the different 'destinies' issue because it is common to mix the destinies and confuse the issue of salvation for a wedding or salvation 'as if by fire'.

2,506 posted on 05/15/2007 3:28:56 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
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To: DelphiUser

I flind the one with FireFaox works greet!

LOL!


2,507 posted on 05/15/2007 3:28:56 PM PDT by Truth-Miner (The Child in us desires Truth to bend to our perspective, may we all be Adults.)
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To: DanielLongo
Three names for three different states of existence for ONE being:

Who Raised Jesus From the Dead?
*GALATIANS 1:1 . . . God the Father, who raised him from the dead;) {cf. 1 Thess 1:10}
<>ROMANS 8:11 . . . the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, . . .
+JOHN 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

2,508 posted on 05/15/2007 3:31:35 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
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To: Truth-Miner

Does FireFaox know how to spell it’s own name?
(A spello when telling me about a better spell check is not impressive)

Does FireFox work with Vista (I hate it and have been stuck with it because my old Laptop died Argh!!)


2,509 posted on 05/15/2007 3:32:35 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser
Every dispensation has a prophet tat the head, Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Joseph Smith.

Delphi, I think you are a little confused about "Prophets at the head."

These are just some of the Prophets of the OT The books in this section deal with the lives and messages of some of the prophets who lived at in Israel’s history. The books are not arranged in chronological order. Isaiah, Jeremiah (Lamentations is traditionally associated with him), and Ezekiel, The Major Prophets and Daniel and the twelve minor prophets Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habukkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi.

The Old Testament records concurrent Prophets and also Prohetesses. Only in Mormonism is there a Prophet at the head, a single prophet over all mankind. Your assesment is unheard of in the Bible with one single exception.

In Ephesians 4, Paul said, ". . . we will in all things grow up into Him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From Him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work".

Christ is the final head. He is at the head of His Church. We don't need no "steekin'" prophet since we have the Holy Spirit we all have access to the one and only Prophet. But Christian still believe in prophesy (you do know that right?) Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

2,510 posted on 05/15/2007 3:33:56 PM PDT by colorcountry ("You step in crap once and spend the rest of your life scraping it off.")
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To: DelphiUser
Never mind...

Download FireFox Vista
2,511 posted on 05/15/2007 3:35:32 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser

Not funny...

But I knew that you knew that I knew that you would have a “take the wind out of my joke” come back like that.

You might be dense but not that dense.


2,512 posted on 05/15/2007 3:36:32 PM PDT by Truth-Miner (The Child in us desires Truth to bend to our perspective, may we all be Adults.)
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To: DelphiUser; Colofornian

I believe DU is closer to actual LDS Doctrine.

While C’s listed assertion is tangentially based on some theories held by some members, neither the listed assertion nor the theories are LDS Doctrine.


2,513 posted on 05/15/2007 3:38:35 PM PDT by tantiboh
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To: MHGinTN
Jeremiah 17:10 I Jehovah do search the heart, try the reins, Even to give to each according to his way, According to the fruit of his doings.

Good verse. I agree with that.

1 Jn. 2: 1 1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

I know that Jesus is our advocate with the father. He has given us commandments that we may come more perfectly to salvation. After all, Jesus is the last mediator and the final judge. For all of those who died living to the best light and knowledge they had, there are provisions made. As you pointed out, Christ himself is their judge. However, most Evangelicals believe that if you do not confess Christ in this life, too bad, you're going to hell- even if you lived in a remote jungle or on a distant mountain and never heard his name. That is why Californian dodged the question. That doctrine does not square with what you just pointed out. Catholic doctrine teaches that those who are not baptized in this life, including infants, must likewise perish in hell. This would suggest that God creates man to punish him. That is anathema to His character.

2,514 posted on 05/15/2007 3:42:01 PM PDT by DanielLongo (Don't tread on me)
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To: Colofornian

“And actually, you know what? there is one unoffensive title in the list LDS assigns to us: The Church of the Dead Tree”

What list is that? I’m afraid I’ve never come across it.


2,515 posted on 05/15/2007 3:44:17 PM PDT by tantiboh
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To: DanielLongo

Matt. 28: 19
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


That’s a contested verse. Eusebius cites that verse multiple times in works written between 300AD and 336AD, in his commentaries on the Psalms, Isaiah, Demonstratio Evangelica, and Theophany, as well as in his famous History of the Church. Each time he cites it in the following form:

‘Go ye and make disciples of all the nations in My name, teaching them to observe all things, whatsoever I commanded you. ‘


2,516 posted on 05/15/2007 3:44:26 PM PDT by Netizen (If we can't locate/deport illegals, how will we get them to come forward to pay their $3,250 fines?)
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To: DanielLongo
Matt. 28: 19 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Um, looks like three names to me.

Yes, precisely my point: "Looks like three names to me, too. Wanna explain why Scripture doesn't there say "names" (plural) but rather says "name?" (singular)

Or are you going to continue to dodge such as obvious reading of that verse?

2,517 posted on 05/15/2007 3:48:31 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: DanielLongo

When looking at verses, especially in the New Testament, it is always useful to consider to whom the writer is speaking most directly.


2,518 posted on 05/15/2007 3:48:40 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
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To: colorcountry; DelphiUser
We don't need no "steekin'" prophet since we have the Holy Spirit we all have access to the one and only Prophet.

Amos 3: 7 7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Only in Mormonism is there a Prophet at the head, a single prophet over all mankind.

That is a bit of a stretch from what DU said. The prophets she mentioned were at the head of their dispensation. They were not the only prophets of their dispensation. Likewise, there is a prophet of God on earth today. Joseph Smith, however, is at the head of the dispensation. Also, the head of the dispensation does not mean what you twisted it to, ie: the Head of the Church or the Head of our faith. The prophet today presides at the head of the church, same as Peter was ordained to do in his day. That does not make him the Head of the Church,nor do we subscribe to that. The prophets themselves testify to the fact that Jesus Christ is at the head of His church.

2,519 posted on 05/15/2007 3:52:19 PM PDT by DanielLongo (Don't tread on me)
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To: FastCoyote

“You have to go out of your way to defend Joseph Smith, because if belief in his infallibility crashes...”

Never claimed infallible, just a prophet.


2,520 posted on 05/15/2007 3:52:24 PM PDT by tantiboh
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