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They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious Bigotry, alive and well today
Saundra Duffy

Posted on 05/04/2007 5:46:36 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy

They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious bigotry, alive and well today

May 4, 2007 - by Saundra Duffy-Hawkins

“I wouldn’t vote for a Mormon for dogcatcher, much less President of the United States!” There’s a lot of that kind of hateful rhetoric going around since Mitt Romney decided to throw his hat in the ring – as if Mormons are some kind of hideous evil monsters. The loudest anti-Mormon shouts, sad to say, are coming from America’s so-called “Christian right”. How can Mitt Romney hope to get a fair shake in this spiritually polluted atmosphere?

There was another man running for President who faced the same dilemma – John F. Kennedy – only he was the target of anti-CATHOLIC bigotry. In his 1960 speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, JFK said the following: “. . .I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end - where all men and all churches are treated as equal - where man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice - where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind - and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their words in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.” John F. Kennedy Library & Museum (Speeches, 1960). By the way, if you listen to the audio version of JFK’s speech, you will hear the hurt and frustration in his voice and the unfair treatment surely must have caused many a sleepless night.

Fast forward to 2007 where JFK might as well have been “whistlin’ Dixie”. The hostility toward Mormons today, in my opinion, is even worse than that suffered by JFK. Although it is said that JFK lost about a million votes to religious intolerance, Romney stands to lose even more if the anti-Mormon evangelicals hang together.

According to Media Matters for America - “. . . a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media” - FOX News is not reporting accurately on the level of evangelical hostility to the Romney run. Media Matters for America points out that among evangelical leaders rejecting Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson (National Day of Prayer and Focus on the Family, respectively), the Southern Baptist Convention (collectively), Pat Robertson (Christian Broadcasting Network), and Dr. D. James Kennedy (Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Florida). “Among many conservative evangelicals – who comprise a significant part of the Republican base – Mormonism is considered an un-Christian cult.” Media Matters for America (2007)

While stumping in Florida, a man in the audience stood up during the Q&A portion and said the following to Romney: “You, sir, you’re a pretender. You do not know the Lord. You’re a Mormon.” Media Matters for America (2007). This is the kind of un-American, disrespectful treatment Mitt Romney will apparently have to endure throughout the entire campaign – as if just being a Mormon is reason enough to open the floodgates for free flow of pent-up hatred and vindictiveness.

For the record, the Mormon bashers know full well that the official name of Romney’s church is “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” and the members should rightfully be called “members of the LDS Church” but the words “Mormon” and “Mormonism” have an aura of negativity so they prefer to use the “M” word as if it were dirty.

Less than five minutes cruising around the official LDS website (LDS.org) will show anyone who’s interested that the Church is a Christian organization, with Jesus Christ at the Head. There are no paid clergy – all are volunteers. Humanitarian aid is legendary. Members of the LDS Church believe in strong family values; they are patriotic, they are law-abiding upstanding citizens of their community. Many LDS young men right out of high school go on two-year missions – you know, the guys on bikes – and during their mission they don’t date, read newspapers, go to movies or watch TV; but rather they dedicate two years of their lives to serving others. Many women go on missions as well, and couples, only theirs is 18 months in length but the obligations are basically the same. Most members do not shop or go out to eat on Sundays – reminiscent of the good old days when shops and stores were closed in obedience to the Commandment, “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy”. If they can help it, LDS Church members do not work on Sundays, either, preferring to spend the day at church and with their families. Church members are encouraged to store up a year’s supply of food and water so they will be able to care for their families in the event of an emergency. The LDS Church believes in self-sufficiency and self-reliance but in the event of a financial hardship the Church distributes food and supplies through their welfare (Bishop’s Storehouse) program. Members of the LDS Church do not drink alcohol nor do they use illicit drugs; they do not drink coffee and tea. A Mormon in good standing, therefore, will not be found in a drunken stupor puking her guts out at 3 a.m. anywhere in the world. Furthermore, members of the church are encouraged to dress modestly, be polite and courteous. And members of the LDS Church are faithful tithe payers. Come on, people, what’s not to love?

So what on earth is their beef, the anti-Mormon zealots? Why is there such disdain for the LDS Church and its members? In Hugh Hewitt’s book, “Mormon in the White House?” he states his thesis that the fierce anti-Mormon sentiment among main-stream Christians stems from one or two or all three of the following factors (in order of importance):

1) “It is just too weird.

2) “A Mormon president will supercharge Mormons’ missionary work.

3) “If there is a Mormon in the White House, Salt Lake City will call the shots, at least on the biggest issues.” Hewitt (2007, p. 221-227)

Hugh Hewitt has written an exquisite book about the Romney campaign and overcoming the “Mormon problem.” It’s a good read and I highly recommend it. Of the three problem points listed in the previous paragraph, Hewitt believes – unless some unforeseen blunder destroys his chances – none of the three is insurmountable for Mitt Romney. (Plus, he has the best hair.)

Well, I’m no Hugh Hewitt, not even close; he’s an icon on the conservative radio talk show circuit. Hewitt could talk circles around me (I’ve seen him in action in Sacramento); he’s brilliant; he’s well educated, well read, no doubt a genius, plus he’s kind of cute. I’m basically a “nobody” – an overweight grandma – but after having researched for this paper, I have come to a totally different conclusion as to why there is such in-your-face angst over Romney’s religion of choice: It’s all about money, power and control (in that order). I think they’re (the evangelical religious bigots, that is) scared half to death and are revving up their attacks, not to save souls, but to save their reputations (which if tarnished would lead to financial ruin).

As I said, all one must do is browse around the LDS official web site to see what the LDS Church believes and stands for. Any reasonable person would conclude that Mormons are not evil monsters at all. In fact, they are God fearing, Christ believing, Holy Ghost following people going about doing good. “You will know them by their fruit” and the LDS has plenty of fruit and they are willing to share.

Earlier, I stated that some high-powered ministries have publicly condemned Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson, the Southern Baptist Convention, Pat Robertson, and Dr. D. James Kennedy – just to name a few. There are hoards of others. Sunday after Sunday, preachers, evangelists, reverends and ministers from all Christian denominations pound the pulpit with anti-Mormon rhetoric. I heard the message loud clear when I was a Baptist and when I tiptoed through evangelical/Pentecostal territories. Was I ever miffed when I later learned for myself the Gospel truth about the LDS Church.

Just think about it, please. If Dr. D. James Kennedy, for example, who wrote the book, The Wolves Among Us, were to admit he’d been wrong in labeling the LDS Church a “cult” that leads unwary ignorant people astray (to hell), what would become of his multi-million-dollar ministry? Suffice it to say, there’s big money to be had by sale of books, tapes, CD’s, videos, and other anti-Mormon propaganda, not to mention speaking engagements and world-wide religious crusades. We’re talking trillions, all told. I realize the anti-Mormon aspect of these ministries is but a small portion of the business, but if the truth came out, that they had been using falsehoods about the LDS Church as a cash cow, their entire empires could tumble.

The ABC News program 20/20 aired on March 23, 2007, exposed the lavish lifestyles of some of the top evangelical preachers – million dollar mansions and personal jets. ABC News - 20/20 (2007) (Again, the LDS Church has no paid clergy.)

It’s nothing new. Severe harassment and persecution has been the lot of the LDS Church since it’s inception in 1820 when a 14-year-old boy named Joseph Smith saw visions and communed with heavenly beings. Rather than discuss the spiritual aspects of the LDS Church, however, let’s stick to facts of history. Taken from a college-level early American history textbook, Joseph Smith, upon experiencing the visions and visitations, believed “that God had work for me to do, and that my name should be for good and evil among all nations, kindreds and tongues.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 292). The textbook continues, “They were met with hostility virtually everywhere they went . . . . As the movement gathered momentum, hundreds of people joined the church; entire congregations of churches of other faiths joined . . .” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 293)

During the dark time of American history when slavery was flourishing and when Native Americans were forced from their lands, the pioneers of the LDS Church also suffered at the hands of unscrupulous politicians, governmental leaders, and angry hate-filled mobs. “In the face of relentless persecution, Joseph Smith, the founder of the church, had led his flock to Illinois. There they had established the town of Nauvoo, which by the mid-1840’s had become the largest city in Illinois with over 15,000 people. . . In June 1844, a mob of non-Mormons broke into the jail where Smith was being held and killed both him and his brother. . .The Mormons abandoned Nauvoo in the spring of 1846 as anti-Mormons pounded the town with cannon, destroying the Great Temple. In a well-coordinated migration, 15,000 Mormons moved in stages to the Great Salt Lake.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 334-335) Many walked all the way and many died along the way, including innocent babes.

Joseph Smith at one time was tarred and feathered by a mob. No jury, no trial, no judge – and they had planned to castrate him, too. On October 27, 1838, the then governor of Missouri issued an “extermination order”: “The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the State if necessary . . .” Far West History (n.d.) Please note that the order called for exterminating “Mormons” making no distinction between men, women and children, and indeed women and children were subject to the extermination order.

In an event known in LDS history as “the Haun’s Mill Massacre”, precipitated by the extermination order, 30 to 40 LDS families were surprised by some 200 to 250 militia. After the smoke cleared, seventeen LDS people lay dead including a ten-year-old boy. Thirteen LDS members were wounded including a woman and a seven-year-old boy. “A few Missourians returned the next day and took plunder.” LDS FAQ (n.d.) No Missouri militiamen were killed but three were wounded. Just a few years earlier, the LDS folk who died that day had been members of other churches - Congregational or Methodist or Baptist or Presbyterian.

In l976, Governor Bond of Missouri officially rescinded the extermination order and presented apologies for the “unfortunate developments” it caused. Quoting from Governor Bond’s Executive Order: “WHEREAS, Governor Boggs’ order clearly contravened the rights to life, liberty, property and religious freedom as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, as well as the Constitution of the State of Missouri; and . . . Expressing on behalf of all Missourians our deep regret for the injustice and undue suffering rescind Executive Order Number 44 dated October 27, 1838, issued by Governor W. Boggs. . .” Far West History (n.d.) The individuals who harassed, abused, and even murdered Mormons in cold blood were never tried for their crimes.

I read Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.’s Letter from Birmingham Jail and it really touched my heart. There he was, suffering for the Lord in jail, and these religious leaders with highfalutin titles on the outside wrote an open letter (“A Call for Unity”) in which they criticize King’s tactics and basically blame King for the racial turmoil of the time. Though you can tell King is upset and hurt by the attack – made worse because he’s stuck in jail and can’t confront the religious leaders face-to-face – his response is gentle genius. “I wish you had commended the Negro sit-inners and demonstrators of Birmingham for their sublime courage, their willingness to suffer, and their amazing discipline in the midst of great provocation. One day the South will recognize its real heroes.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 881)

King has a few choice words for the Church, too: “If today’s church does not recapture the sacrificial spirit of the early church, it will lose its authenticity, forfeit the loyalty of millions, and be dismissed as an irrelevant social club with no meaning for the twentieth century. Every day I meet young people whose disappointment with the church has turned into outright disgust.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 880)

King signs off with “Yours for the cause of Peace and Brotherhood”.

There’s an eerie commonality between what JFK and MLK endured at the hands of the religious bigots of their day and what Mitt Romney is facing today. I hope and pray that Romney will be able to fend off these undeserved attacks from the religious hypocrites with the same grace, dignity and God-inspired resolve displayed by the other two.

A few popular bumper stickers read: “Honk if you love Jesus” and “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven” or “Jesus is my co-pilot”. Yet, apparently, these same bumper-sticker Christians are the ones waging war against Mitt Romney’s run for the Presidency solely on the basis of his chosen faith in a Church that bears the name of the Savior of the world.

References

ABC News - 20/20 (2007). Philanthropic donations come from your heart, but where do they end up? Ex-money manager says "enough!" to secretive Christian Ministry spending. Glenn Ruppel & John Stossel. United States: ABC News.

Ayers, E. L., Gould, L. L., Oshinsky, D. M., & Soderlund, J. R. (2004). American Passages - a history of the United States - Volume I: to 1877 (2nd ed.). Belmont, California: Thomson/Wadsworth.

Barnet, S., & Bedau, H. (2005). Letter from Birmingham Jail. Current Issues and Enduring Questions - a guide to critical thinking and argument, with readings (7th ed., pp. 867-882). Boston and New York: Bedford/St. Martin's.

Far West History. (n.d.). The Extermination Order and how it was rescinded. Retrieved April 28, 2007, from http://www.jwha.info/mmff/exorder.htm

Hewitt, H. (2007). A Mormon in the White House? 10 things every American should know about Mitt Romney. Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing, Inc.

John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum. (1960, September 12). Address of Senator John F. Kennedy to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://www.jfklibrary.org

Lds Faq. (n.d.). What was the Haun's Mill Massacre? Retrieved April 28-2007, 2004, from Brigham Young University Web Site: http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/view.asp?q=57

Media Matters for America. (2007). Fox News whitewashes evangelical hostility to Romney's faith. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://mediamatters.org/items/printable/200702280002


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: boggsforgovernor; cuespookymusic; election; lds; mormon; mormons; romney; whitesalamanderblues
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To: Colofornian
And still you do not answer the question.

What church were you baptized into? The official name. Are you ashamed to say?

2,481 posted on 05/15/2007 1:04:31 PM PDT by DanielLongo (Don't tread on me)
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To: MHGinTN

I’m not smart enough to be a Mormon apologist. All I know is that I love Jesus and I love my Church.


2,482 posted on 05/15/2007 1:04:48 PM PDT by Saundra Duffy ( Mitt has the best hair!)
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To: Netizen
Acts Chapter 10:

1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
• • •
3 He saw in a avision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an cangel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
• • •
7 And when the angel which spake unto Cornelius was departed, he called two of his household servants, and a devout soldier of them that waited on him continually;
• • •
17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon’s house, and stood before the gate,
• • •
21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come?
22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was awarned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.
• • •
24 And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and had called together his kinsmen and near friends.
25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
• • •
30 And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was afasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a bman stood before me in bright clothing,
31 And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.

I believe being visited by an angel counts as being taught about the Gospel or given a particular knowledge of God and his dealings with men. The scripture also says he was “one that feareth God”. It suggests that he had previous knowledge as well.

Again, I refer to those who do not receive the word of God because it was never preached to them. Are they saved in your estimation? What happens to them?

2,483 posted on 05/15/2007 1:10:50 PM PDT by DanielLongo (Don't tread on me)
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To: DanielLongo
I believe being visited by an angel counts as being taught about the Gospel or given a particular knowledge of God and his dealings with men. The scripture also says he was “one that feareth God”. It suggests that he had previous knowledge as well.

Cornelius believed in God and lived his life accordingly (Godfearer) and that is why God sent an angel to him. Plain and simple. You are adding words to the text that are not there. Where does the text say that the angel taught Cornelius anything??

If suggestions are allowed, I say it suggests that God chose Cornelius because he was obedient and kept God's commandments and through his charity helped his fellow mankind that were less fortunate than himself. Just another way that we show our love for God, by loving others.

Again, I refer to those who do not receive the word of God because it was never preached to them. Are they saved in your estimation? What happens to them?

As I pointed out already, Cornelius had already found grace in God's eyes BEFORE hearing the gospel, and before being baptised.

2,484 posted on 05/15/2007 1:17:16 PM PDT by Netizen (If we can't locate/deport illegals, how will we get them to come forward to pay their $3,250 fines?)
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To: DanielLongo
Here is a clue to answering your question: in Heaven there are more than one groups at the wedding and the judgement ... there is The Bride of Christ, the number of souls so great as witnesses that no man could number them, and the Heavenly beings/angels. Except the Angels, no human will be in Heaven at the Wedding except by the Righteous Person of Christ for no man cometh unto the Father but by Him/Jesus/The Lamb of God.

Jesus taught this through the story regarding the garment worn by the counterfeit trying to sneak in to the wedding ... the one trying to sneak in was not a bride, he was seeking to sneak in as a witness.

When you ask a question regarding the being and going to heaven, try to focus upon which being will they be in Heaven: The Bride (only those of most chaste status will be the Bride), or the invited guests? God has a means of measuring the heart of ALL and the garment of His Righteousness may be conveyed to ANY whom God chooses, but He has a system of evaluation you can be sure for anything else diminishes His Son, His Righteousness.

2,485 posted on 05/15/2007 1:30:21 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
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To: DanielLongo

Acts 10

1 And there was a certain man in Cesarea, by name Cornelius, a centurion from a band called Italian,

2 pious, and fearing God with all his house, doing also many kind acts to the people, and beseeching God always,

3 he saw in a vision manifestly, as it were the ninth hour of the day, a messenger of God coming in unto him, and saying to him, `Cornelius;’

4 and he having looked earnestly on him, and becoming afraid, said, `What is it, Lord?’ And he said to him, `Thy prayers and thy kind acts came up for a memorial before God,

34 And Peter having opened his mouth, said, `Of a truth, I perceive that God is no respecter of persons,

35 but in every nation he who is fearing Him, and is working righteousness, is acceptable to Him;


2,486 posted on 05/15/2007 1:34:11 PM PDT by Netizen (If we can't locate/deport illegals, how will we get them to come forward to pay their $3,250 fines?)
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To: caffe
It is not bigotry to expose the truth of Mormons belief; they are definitely NOT christians.

Q: Can I start a group Mormons for Jesus?
A: No.
Q: Why Not? I read on the internet...
A: Anyone can post stuff on the net, that dosn't make it TRUE.

If you are going to judge my religion (and thus me), perhaps you should learn a little about us first Right there ont he front page is a section on Morons being christian.

You have an educational day now.
2,487 posted on 05/15/2007 1:41:36 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser

Morons = Mormons no wait! man, I hate spell check some times.

8^P


2,488 posted on 05/15/2007 1:45:25 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: MHGinTN
How can you be called "one who feareth God" and know nothing of God. You are not making any sense. But let us take that for granted. So do you believe a person who never hears the word of God and is never baptized and dies in this state can be saved?

Also, 9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. 10 So those servants went out into the highways, and agathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. 11 ¶ And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: 12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. 13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into aouter darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 14 For many are acalled, but few are bchosen.

The man bound and cast out was a guest, not a bride. There is significance to this. If you are familiar with Jewish custom, the guests were attired very specifically and brought certain items with them. The wedding garment does not refer to the dress of the bride or groom. It identifies the person as one who belonged to the wedding party. Another parable that touches on these Jewish customs is the parable of the ten virgins. Their lamps of oil were an actual accouterment that was required of them as guests at any wedding feast, among other items, as I said. ...and still Californian refuses to tell us what Church he was baptized into.

2,489 posted on 05/15/2007 1:52:22 PM PDT by DanielLongo (Don't tread on me)
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To: Colofornian
...and what is that "church" you were baptized into called?

I have no issues with stating that I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

2,490 posted on 05/15/2007 1:56:43 PM PDT by DanielLongo (Don't tread on me)
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To: DanielLongo
"How can you be called "one who feareth God" and know nothing of God. You are not making any sense." DanielLongo

I won't trouble you further. You seem intent on repeating some of what I offered to you as if it were from some other source you imagine I disagree with. Carry on in your chosen direction, leave me not divert you from your happy trails.

2,491 posted on 05/15/2007 1:58:52 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
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To: DanielLongo
And still you do not answer the question. What church were you baptized into? The official name. Are you ashamed to say?

And still you do not answer my question from posts 2452 and 2453. What church title do you label me? The official name. Are you ashamed to say?

What church were you baptized into?

Secondly, once again, you show you are in Scriptural error. (Will you at least 'fess up this time?) We are not baptized into a church or into an organization or into an institution or into a denomination (at least I was not).

I was baptized into a Person. A very specific Person. Or do you deny Romans 6:3? (Go ahead. Read it)

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?" (Rom. 6:3)

By emphasizing mere men above Jesus Christ, you are a divider of the faith like Paul says (1 Cor. 3:3-5, 21-23). By emphasizing "denominationalism," you can't see the forest through the trees, and so you're stuck on the trees (and not even a clump of trees, but one). Thus, you can't see the forest. You can't see the whole body. The one body that Paul writes about in Romans 12:4-5; 1 Cor. 12:12-13, 20; Eph. 4:4; Col. 3:15.

Why is that mathematical reality so difficult for you to comprehend. (Paul doesn't say the "many" bodies, but the "one")

I'm not your "let's conquer & divide" type of poster. Go find another who is.

2,492 posted on 05/15/2007 2:08:41 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Saundra Duffy

“I’m not smart enough to be a Mormon apologist. All I know is that I love Jesus and I love my Church.”

Saundra, the problem is you love your church and Joseph Smith far beyond Jesus. As a Christian I can go into any Christian Church there is and confess my sins and be part of the family. You can only go to a Mormon church because you have set yourself apart from the rest of us. Your Temple is a fortress to separate Mormons from other Christians. You have to go out of your way to defend Joseph Smith, because if belief in his infallibility crashes, so does your whole belief system. That certainly isn’t putting Christ first, it is putting church social events and doctrine first.


2,493 posted on 05/15/2007 2:20:07 PM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: DanielLongo
I have no issues with stating that I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

And I have issues that anyone is baptized into a church.

We are baptized into a Person, Jesus Christ (Rom. 6:3) and it's done in the Name [note that both the Bible & D&C 84:27 say this baptism is done in a Name--singular...cf. Mt 28:18-20] of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Do you want to explain how it is--if you believe in 3 gods who make up a "Godhead"--how that you are not baptized in the "Names" (plural) of your 3 gods?

Why are you baptized in only a Singular Name?

2,494 posted on 05/15/2007 2:42:10 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: FastCoyote; Saundra Duffy
Saundra, the problem is you love your church and Joseph Smith far beyond Jesus.

I know at least in the 1990s that if you visited the LDS South Visitor Center there was one picture of Jesus on the main floor with a heading over an LDS Scriptural citation with the heading reading, "Jesus testifies of Joseph Smith."

There's been a tendency to run things a little backward in the LDS church, with LDS prophets Brigham Young and Joseph Fielding Smith saying that celestial-bound folks need the "consent of Joseph Smith" (BY, JoD, 7:289) and that there is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith" (DoS, 1:189-190). Even the LDS Melchizedek Priesthood Manual of '84 said: "If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [JS]; if we enter into our glory, it will be through the authority that he has received. We cannot get around him." (p. 133)

2,495 posted on 05/15/2007 2:48:26 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: MHGinTN
So do you believe a person who never hears the word of God and is never baptized and dies in this state can be saved?

How difficult is this question? What is it with you guys? I’ve posted it several times. This question obviously does not apply to Cornelius. Sorry I let you side track me.

I sincerely want to know what your beliefs teach you on this.

2,496 posted on 05/15/2007 2:56:05 PM PDT by DanielLongo (Don't tread on me)
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To: Colofornian

Matt. 28: 19
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Um, looks like three names to me.

What’s your church? Your dodge is very cowardly.


2,497 posted on 05/15/2007 2:59:09 PM PDT by DanielLongo (Don't tread on me)
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To: caffe
It is not bigotry to expose the truth of Mormons belief

Um, okay. Not sure what this has to do with what I posted.

2,498 posted on 05/15/2007 3:05:36 PM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: DanielLongo
This question obviously does not apply to Cornelius.

Just because Cornelius doesn't fit into your tidy little box doesn't mean it doesn't apply to him, especially since he found grace in God's eyes before hearing the gospel and or being baptised.

2,499 posted on 05/15/2007 3:05:39 PM PDT by Netizen (If we can't locate/deport illegals, how will we get them to come forward to pay their $3,250 fines?)
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To: arderkrag

LOL


2,500 posted on 05/15/2007 3:06:45 PM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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