Posted on 05/04/2007 5:46:36 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy
A link to Alexa (where I got this information) is found on FreeRepublic’s home page.
Go . .. and play to your hearts content. You’ll find all kinds of interesting facts in regards to lds.org.
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?q=&p=Det_W_t_40_L1&url=freerepublic.com
“Jesus answered, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
I believe that, too. I love Jesus so much for what He did for us. I think we agree.
Maybe we’re just trying to say that no human knows the eternal outcome of a Muslim or anyone else for that matter. The whole thing is in God’s Hands. If we try to jump in there and decide who’s going to hell and who’s not, we are thumbing our noses at Heavenly Father and crucifying Jesus over and over again. Only He knows our hearts. Only He knows us from the womb.
Sometimes I ponder my own harsh reactions. I find great solace in knowing that Heavenly Father knows all about my emotional hurts and wounds and He knows why I react the way I do - not that He’s all that thrilled when I blast away - but He patiently waits and loves me anyway. I’m his daughter. He knows all about my earthly father’s disappointing behavior and how it affected me, the little girl.
I love my Heavenly Father so much and am grateful that He sent Jesus to die for me so that I can have hope in this life and life eternal. I try and listen for the “still small voice” of the Holy Ghost but it’s hard to hear Him when I’m yelling at the top of my lungs through a megaphone. I have a long way to go!!
“The Heavenly Father of the LDS has a body of flesh & bones as he was born of physical parentage”
I am just sitting here scratching my head. I prefer to stick to Jesus Christ and Him crucified and how he suffered and sweat Blood in the Garden.
If Joseph Smith were a fraud, trust me, he’d have changed his ways in order to avoid the fierce opposition.
[[But we all agree on the core doctrines of the Christian religion, such as the nature of God, the means of salvation, who Jesus was, how the world was created, and the Bible as the only inspired scriptures.]]
“Interesting, I assume you are talking about the Trinity?”
I listed the nature of God (this would include the Trinity), the means of salvation, who Jesus was, how the world was created, and the Bible as the only inspired scriptures. If you were to look at the web site I posted a link to, you would find these and other points of doctrine addressed, with Bible references.
“If you believe that Jesus is the Christ, and that your salvation comes through him, and only him, you are Christian because that is what you believe. If you add spaceships and guitars, and tarot reading, as long as you believe in Jesus Christ as your God, you are a Christian.”
I strongly disagree with this, as do orthodox Christians in general. I respect your freedom to believe this, I am just making my opinion clear.
As to your question about why there are so many different churches: Why not? Is it any surprise that after 2000 years, the Church (The Body of Christ)—which is made up of human beings who have different personalities, opinions about peripheral issues, and preferences—would have some variety to it? Sure, people have had disagreements about things. And sure, there are some who are way out in left field. But we all agree on the core doctrines of Christianity, and that is what unites us. And maybe God likes variety? After all, look at his creation, all the different types of apples, and flowers, and fish, and birds!
I wouldn’t want all churches or denominations to be the same. We can all learn from and be challenged by our differences. Lutherans can learn from the free style of worship in Pentacostal churches. Pentacostals can learn from the structure and reverence of Catholic worship. Catholics can learn from the evangelistic emphasis of a Baptist church. We can all benefit from our differences. And we can all benefit from the challenge to be united despite our differences.
My family attends Lutheran churches. My husband’s parents attend a Christian and Missionary Alliance church. We ourselves have attended Christian and Missionary Alliance as well as Baptist churches. We have friends that attend a wide variety of churches, including Catholic. We do not argue amongst ourselves, although on a very rare occasion we have discussed peripheral issues in a friendly way. We all agree on the important things, so the differences are insignificant in our eyes.
I would venture to guess that Mormons would like there to be huge differences among the different denominations and churches, as that is really at the core of Joseph Smith’s first revelation, and it sounds like it is also at the core of the LDS missionary message. You are free to think what you will about orthodox Christians. But I as an orthodox Christian have shared my views on the topic.
Best regards!
Remember the good old days, when we were shocked that a thread hit 1,000 and we all just wished it would die?
“If Joseph Smith were a fraud, trust me, he’d have changed his ways in order to avoid the fierce opposition.”
Even if he believed the poppycock he was preaching, that still wouldn’t make him less of a fraud. None of you have explained the mis-translation of the Egyptian hieroglyphics - that was decidedly fraud. Nor have you explained how his signature got on a three dollar bill without a bank charter - outright fraud again.
These examples really aren’t even close to a grey area, they are flat out grifter behavior.
Thanks for sharing your testimony, it was interesting to read!
You said that when the LDS missionaries visited you, you said you “can never be good enough to be a Mormon!” I find that really interesting. Did you feel that your salvation was dependent on being “good enough”? And why did you think that?
You also wrote:
“They put these little paper cups upside down on the postum table and they said these represent the other churches; they all have some of the truth. The Baptists believe in baptism by immersion (we believe that too); the Pentecostals believe in speaking in tongues (we believe that too so long as there’s an interpreter); the Catholics believe in the Priesthood coming from the original Apostles (we believe that too); some churches believe in evangelical outreach (we believe that too); some churches believe that Jesus Christ is divine (we believe that too); some churches believe the Holy Ghost was sent by Jesus as He promised (we believe that too); other churches believe in keeping the Sabbath day holy (we believe that too); some believe in paying a full tithe (we believe that too).”
Orthodox Christians also believe in evangelical outreach, that Jesus is divine, that Jesus sent the Holy Spirit, and that the Sabbath Day is holy. Views on the priesthood, tongues, baptism, and tithing do differ among denominations and churches. Personally, as an evangelical Protestant, I agree with all the views you agree with above.
I think it’s interesting that the main focus of the missionaries, according to your testimony, was the differences in churches. I have been out “evangelizing” with Christians of different denominations and churches, and I have to say that our message never focused on churches. Although we came from different backgrounds, our message about forgiveness, eternal life, and a personal relationship with God was the same.
I’m glad to hear that you made it through your surgery, and that you were comforted in your time of need.
Thanks for your reply. It seems we have different opinons on what the Bible is. We do not believe that God is mute. He speaks to us today through prayer, through the Bible, through words of prophecy, through his creation, and through the Holy Spirit. God be with you!
Thank you, and likewise to you.
You can be forgiven for being naive.
If you are going to mock things that are sacred, that’s your choice, but they are biblical in nature and were given to ancient prophets as well as modern ones to do the Lord’s work. You have the references I posted earlier. Why don’t you go read them and educate yourself.
Thanks! Cool site, bookmarked! I see many applicatiosn to use that one!
My guess is that these ones approaching 3k are just babies in the long run of things.
1. "You shall have no other gods before me."
Have you always put God first in your life? Jesus said to love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength-- so much, that your love for your parents, brothers and sisters, friends, and even your own life is like hatred compared to your love and devotion for God. Have you ever failed to put Him first in your life?
2. "You shall not make for yourself any idol."
Who is God to you? Is he only a god of love and mercy who would never judge anyone and never cast anyone into Hell? If that's your god, then you're right. Your god couldn't cast anyone into Hell because he doesn't exist. He's a figment of your imagination. You've created a god in your own mind that you're more comfortable with. You may call it your "personal belief," but God calls it idolatry. It's the oldest sin in the Book, and the Bible warns that idolaters will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.
3. "You shall not take the name of God in vain."
Have you ever used God's name as a curse word? If you have, you've taken the holy name of God-- who gave you your life, your family, and everything precious to you-- and used it as a filthy, four-letter word. Hitler's name wasn't even despised enough to be used as a curse word! If you have used God's holy name in that manner, you are a blasphemer and the Bible says "God will not hold him guiltless who takes the name of the Lord in vain."
4. "Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy."
God commands that we set aside one day in seven. Have you ever been guilty of breaking this Commandment?
5. "Honor your father and your mother."
Have you always honored your parents in a way that's pleasing in the sight of God? Ask Him to remind you of the sins of your youth. You may have forgotten them, but God hasn't.
6. "You shall not murder."
Jesus warned "Whoever is angry with his brother without cause, is in danger of judgment," (Matthew 5:22) and the Bible says, "He who hates his brother is a murderer," (1 John 3:15). God sees hatred in the heart to be as wicked as murder. We can violate His Law by attitude and intent.
7. "You shall not commit adultery."
Jesus warned,"You have heard...'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Have you ever looked at another person with lust? The Bible says that adulterers and fornicators (those who have had sex before marriage) will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
8. "You shall not steal."
Have you ever stolen anything (even if it was something small)? The value of the thing stolen doesn't matter; petty theft is still theft. Have you ever taken anything that belonged to someone else (from the office, school, parents, etc.)? If you have, that makes you a thief.
9. "You shall not lie."
Have you ever told a lie? Then you are a liar. How many murders do you have to commit to be a murderer? Just one. If you have told even one lie, that makes you a liar. The Bible warns that all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 21:8). You may not think deceitfulness is a serious sin, but God does.
10. "You shall not covet."
This means we should never desire anything that belongs to another person. Not their house, nor their car, nor their money, nor their wife, nor their lifestyle, nor anything that belongs to our neighbor.
Who of us can say we are not guilty of breaking these Commandments?
Who of us can say we are not guilty of breaking these Commandments?
This is what the Bible means when it says, "All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God."
Can you see your predicament? You are guilty of sinning against God Himself, and, because you have a conscience, ("con"=with, "science"=knowledge) you have sinned "with knowledge."
Isn't it true that every time you lied, stole, or lusted, etc., you knew it was wrong?
Does the fact that you have sinned against God scare you? It should.
You have actually angered Him by your sin.
The Bible says His wrath abides on you, that you are an "enemy of God in your mind through wicked works."
Perhaps you think God is good and because of his goodness He will overlook your sins?
But if you knew of a human judge who turned a blind eye to the crimes of a guilty rapist... would you describe him as a "good" judge?
No
That would be a corrupt judge.
God could never be a corrupt judge.
He will punish all the rapists, murderers, and thieves... But He won't stop there. He will also punish all liars, the lustful, adulterers, idolaters, and blasphemers.
The place of eternal punishment is Hell.
God does not want you to perish. He is rich in mercy and compassion, and has provided a way for you to be forgiven. He has invited you to come to Him for a full pardon and receive the free gift of Eternal Life. You cannot earn it, and you do not deserve it, but God is offering it to you as proof of His love for you.
Imagine you are standing in front of a judge, guilty of multiple serious crimes. All the evidence has been presented and there is no doubt about your guilt. Your apologies and good works cannot erase your crimes; therefore you must be punished. The fine for your crime is $250,000 or imprisonment, but you don’t have two pennies to rub together. The judge is about to pass sentence when someone you don't even know steps in and pays your fine for you! The court accepts the money and declares that you are free to go. The law has been satisfied, your debt has been paid in full, and the stranger’s sacrifice was a demonstration of his love for you. That’s what God did for you 2000 years ago.
The Bible says that the God of the Universe became a man (Jesus Christ), and suffered and died on the cross for your sins and mine so that we could be set free. Then he rose again from the dead and defeated death! It's as simple as this—we broke the Law, and Jesus paid our fine.
"God demonstrated His own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)
"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, being made a curse for us." (Galatians 3:13)
Do you see God’s great love for you? Do you see your need for His forgiveness? Do what He commands and “Repent…that your sins may be wiped out and times of refreshing may come from the Lord.” (Acts 3:19) You must turn away from sin and turn to God. Desire to have NOTHING to do with sin, and surrender your life to the One who can save you. Jesus died to set you free, and then he rose from death to be your Lord. Jesus said, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” If you will confess and forsake your sins (repent) and trust in Jesus Christ as your Savior and Lord, God will forgive you and you’ll pass from death to life.
If you've decided to reject the gift of forgiveness and you die in your sins, there is no hope for you. There is no purgatory. The wrath of God abides on you and you will spend eternity in Hell.
This is the the may not be false in your statement above, and like you stated it may not be false.
Just something to ponder on.
BigMack
They believe Jesus was ONLY a prophet. They do not consider Jesus to be the savior. They follow the teachings of Mohammed, NOT the teachings of Jesus. He co-opted the Christian and Jewish teachings, trying to give his cult legitimacy. It did not work. Islam is NOT the pathway to eternity with God in heaven.
1. The trinity is a false doctrine. (because Joseph smith saw two personages who were distinct from each other.)Lets discuss the trinity for a moment, woudldn’t you agree that knowing god’s nature is important if you are to woship him? (John 17:3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
2. God had not closed the heavens.
3. The true church did not exist on the earth at that time.
Finally Constantine, having conquered Licinius and become sole emperor, concerned himself with the re-establishment of religious peace as well as of civil order. He addressed letters to St. Alexander and to Arius deprecating these heated controversies regarding questions of no practical importance, and advising the adversaries to agree without delay.And
The emperor began by making the bishops understand that they had a greater and better business in hand than personal quarrels and interminable recriminations.Hippolytus Eusebius called him the most important theologian of the pre-Constantinian era. He was reportedly the great grandson of John the beloved. He wrote a set of ten books called “refutation of all heresies”
“Such is the true doctrine in regard of the divine nature, O you men, Greeks and Barbarians, Chaldeans and Assyrians, Egyptians and Libyans, Indians and Ethiopians, Celts, and you Latins, who lead armies, and all you that inhabit Europe, and Asia, and Libya.6 And to you I am become an adviser, inasmuch as I am a disciple of the benevolent Logos, and hence humane, in order that you may hasten and by us may be taught who the true God is, and what is His well-ordered creation. Do not devote your attention to the fallacies of artificial discourses, nor the vain promises of plagiarizing heretics,6 but to the venerable simplicity of unassuming truth. And by means of this knowledge you shall escape the approaching threat of the fire of judgment, and the rayless scenery of gloomy Tartarus,6 where never shines a beam from the irradiating voice of the Word!So between the time that Hippolytus died in 236 and the Council at Nicea in 325 AD the view of the church swung from three entities acting as one God to one God made up of three manifestations. This is really not a HUGE change when you think about it, but it has many important ramifications.
You shall escape the boiling flood of hell's6 eternal lake of fire and the eye ever fixed in menacing glare of fallen angels chained in Tartarus as punishment for their sins; and you shall escape the worm that ceaselessly coils for food around the body whose scum6 has bred it. Now such (torments) as these shall you avoid by being instructed in a knowledge of the true God. And you shall possess an immortal body, even one placed beyond the possibility of corruption, just like the soul. And you shall receive the kingdom of heaven, you who, while you sojourned in this life, knew the Celestial King. And you shall be a companion of the Deity, and a co-heir with Christ, no longer enslaved by lusts or passions, and never again wasted by disease. For you have become God:7 for whatever sufferings you underwent while being a man, these He gave to you, because you were of mortal mould, but whatever it is consistent with God to impart, these God has promised to bestow upon you, because you have been deified, and begotten unto immortality.7 This constitutes the import of the proverb, "Know yourself; "i.e., discover God within yourself, for He has formed you after His own image. For with the knowledge of self is conjoined the being an object of God's knowledge, for you are called by the Deity Himself. Be not therefore inflamed, O you men, with enmity one towards another, nor hesitate to retrace7 with all speed your steps. For Christ is the God above all, and He has arranged to wash away sin from human beings,7 rendering regenerate the old man. And God called man His likeness from the beginning, and has evinced in a figure His love towards you. And provided you obey His solemn injunctions, and becomest a faithful follower of Him who is good, you shall resemble Him, inasmuch as you shall have honour conferred upon you by Him. For the Deity, (by condescension,) does not diminish anything of the divinity of His divine7 perfection; having made you even God unto His glory!7”
Here is a little thought guide that Diamond posted on another thread. It is instructional, to say the least:
Who Raised Jesus From the Dead?
*GALATIANS 1:1 . . . God the Father, who raised him from the dead;) {cf. 1 Thess 1:10}
<>ROMANS 8:11 . . . the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, . . .
+JOHN 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
That is as clear as one can make it, but certain posters continue to try and make silk from pig's ears. The Apologist activist game is to sow doubt, to create a faith void into which the heresies of Mormonism may be injected. I trust you see this.
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