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They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious Bigotry, alive and well today
Saundra Duffy

Posted on 05/04/2007 5:46:36 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy

They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious bigotry, alive and well today

May 4, 2007 - by Saundra Duffy-Hawkins

“I wouldn’t vote for a Mormon for dogcatcher, much less President of the United States!” There’s a lot of that kind of hateful rhetoric going around since Mitt Romney decided to throw his hat in the ring – as if Mormons are some kind of hideous evil monsters. The loudest anti-Mormon shouts, sad to say, are coming from America’s so-called “Christian right”. How can Mitt Romney hope to get a fair shake in this spiritually polluted atmosphere?

There was another man running for President who faced the same dilemma – John F. Kennedy – only he was the target of anti-CATHOLIC bigotry. In his 1960 speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, JFK said the following: “. . .I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end - where all men and all churches are treated as equal - where man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice - where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind - and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their words in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.” John F. Kennedy Library & Museum (Speeches, 1960). By the way, if you listen to the audio version of JFK’s speech, you will hear the hurt and frustration in his voice and the unfair treatment surely must have caused many a sleepless night.

Fast forward to 2007 where JFK might as well have been “whistlin’ Dixie”. The hostility toward Mormons today, in my opinion, is even worse than that suffered by JFK. Although it is said that JFK lost about a million votes to religious intolerance, Romney stands to lose even more if the anti-Mormon evangelicals hang together.

According to Media Matters for America - “. . . a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media” - FOX News is not reporting accurately on the level of evangelical hostility to the Romney run. Media Matters for America points out that among evangelical leaders rejecting Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson (National Day of Prayer and Focus on the Family, respectively), the Southern Baptist Convention (collectively), Pat Robertson (Christian Broadcasting Network), and Dr. D. James Kennedy (Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Florida). “Among many conservative evangelicals – who comprise a significant part of the Republican base – Mormonism is considered an un-Christian cult.” Media Matters for America (2007)

While stumping in Florida, a man in the audience stood up during the Q&A portion and said the following to Romney: “You, sir, you’re a pretender. You do not know the Lord. You’re a Mormon.” Media Matters for America (2007). This is the kind of un-American, disrespectful treatment Mitt Romney will apparently have to endure throughout the entire campaign – as if just being a Mormon is reason enough to open the floodgates for free flow of pent-up hatred and vindictiveness.

For the record, the Mormon bashers know full well that the official name of Romney’s church is “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” and the members should rightfully be called “members of the LDS Church” but the words “Mormon” and “Mormonism” have an aura of negativity so they prefer to use the “M” word as if it were dirty.

Less than five minutes cruising around the official LDS website (LDS.org) will show anyone who’s interested that the Church is a Christian organization, with Jesus Christ at the Head. There are no paid clergy – all are volunteers. Humanitarian aid is legendary. Members of the LDS Church believe in strong family values; they are patriotic, they are law-abiding upstanding citizens of their community. Many LDS young men right out of high school go on two-year missions – you know, the guys on bikes – and during their mission they don’t date, read newspapers, go to movies or watch TV; but rather they dedicate two years of their lives to serving others. Many women go on missions as well, and couples, only theirs is 18 months in length but the obligations are basically the same. Most members do not shop or go out to eat on Sundays – reminiscent of the good old days when shops and stores were closed in obedience to the Commandment, “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy”. If they can help it, LDS Church members do not work on Sundays, either, preferring to spend the day at church and with their families. Church members are encouraged to store up a year’s supply of food and water so they will be able to care for their families in the event of an emergency. The LDS Church believes in self-sufficiency and self-reliance but in the event of a financial hardship the Church distributes food and supplies through their welfare (Bishop’s Storehouse) program. Members of the LDS Church do not drink alcohol nor do they use illicit drugs; they do not drink coffee and tea. A Mormon in good standing, therefore, will not be found in a drunken stupor puking her guts out at 3 a.m. anywhere in the world. Furthermore, members of the church are encouraged to dress modestly, be polite and courteous. And members of the LDS Church are faithful tithe payers. Come on, people, what’s not to love?

So what on earth is their beef, the anti-Mormon zealots? Why is there such disdain for the LDS Church and its members? In Hugh Hewitt’s book, “Mormon in the White House?” he states his thesis that the fierce anti-Mormon sentiment among main-stream Christians stems from one or two or all three of the following factors (in order of importance):

1) “It is just too weird.

2) “A Mormon president will supercharge Mormons’ missionary work.

3) “If there is a Mormon in the White House, Salt Lake City will call the shots, at least on the biggest issues.” Hewitt (2007, p. 221-227)

Hugh Hewitt has written an exquisite book about the Romney campaign and overcoming the “Mormon problem.” It’s a good read and I highly recommend it. Of the three problem points listed in the previous paragraph, Hewitt believes – unless some unforeseen blunder destroys his chances – none of the three is insurmountable for Mitt Romney. (Plus, he has the best hair.)

Well, I’m no Hugh Hewitt, not even close; he’s an icon on the conservative radio talk show circuit. Hewitt could talk circles around me (I’ve seen him in action in Sacramento); he’s brilliant; he’s well educated, well read, no doubt a genius, plus he’s kind of cute. I’m basically a “nobody” – an overweight grandma – but after having researched for this paper, I have come to a totally different conclusion as to why there is such in-your-face angst over Romney’s religion of choice: It’s all about money, power and control (in that order). I think they’re (the evangelical religious bigots, that is) scared half to death and are revving up their attacks, not to save souls, but to save their reputations (which if tarnished would lead to financial ruin).

As I said, all one must do is browse around the LDS official web site to see what the LDS Church believes and stands for. Any reasonable person would conclude that Mormons are not evil monsters at all. In fact, they are God fearing, Christ believing, Holy Ghost following people going about doing good. “You will know them by their fruit” and the LDS has plenty of fruit and they are willing to share.

Earlier, I stated that some high-powered ministries have publicly condemned Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson, the Southern Baptist Convention, Pat Robertson, and Dr. D. James Kennedy – just to name a few. There are hoards of others. Sunday after Sunday, preachers, evangelists, reverends and ministers from all Christian denominations pound the pulpit with anti-Mormon rhetoric. I heard the message loud clear when I was a Baptist and when I tiptoed through evangelical/Pentecostal territories. Was I ever miffed when I later learned for myself the Gospel truth about the LDS Church.

Just think about it, please. If Dr. D. James Kennedy, for example, who wrote the book, The Wolves Among Us, were to admit he’d been wrong in labeling the LDS Church a “cult” that leads unwary ignorant people astray (to hell), what would become of his multi-million-dollar ministry? Suffice it to say, there’s big money to be had by sale of books, tapes, CD’s, videos, and other anti-Mormon propaganda, not to mention speaking engagements and world-wide religious crusades. We’re talking trillions, all told. I realize the anti-Mormon aspect of these ministries is but a small portion of the business, but if the truth came out, that they had been using falsehoods about the LDS Church as a cash cow, their entire empires could tumble.

The ABC News program 20/20 aired on March 23, 2007, exposed the lavish lifestyles of some of the top evangelical preachers – million dollar mansions and personal jets. ABC News - 20/20 (2007) (Again, the LDS Church has no paid clergy.)

It’s nothing new. Severe harassment and persecution has been the lot of the LDS Church since it’s inception in 1820 when a 14-year-old boy named Joseph Smith saw visions and communed with heavenly beings. Rather than discuss the spiritual aspects of the LDS Church, however, let’s stick to facts of history. Taken from a college-level early American history textbook, Joseph Smith, upon experiencing the visions and visitations, believed “that God had work for me to do, and that my name should be for good and evil among all nations, kindreds and tongues.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 292). The textbook continues, “They were met with hostility virtually everywhere they went . . . . As the movement gathered momentum, hundreds of people joined the church; entire congregations of churches of other faiths joined . . .” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 293)

During the dark time of American history when slavery was flourishing and when Native Americans were forced from their lands, the pioneers of the LDS Church also suffered at the hands of unscrupulous politicians, governmental leaders, and angry hate-filled mobs. “In the face of relentless persecution, Joseph Smith, the founder of the church, had led his flock to Illinois. There they had established the town of Nauvoo, which by the mid-1840’s had become the largest city in Illinois with over 15,000 people. . . In June 1844, a mob of non-Mormons broke into the jail where Smith was being held and killed both him and his brother. . .The Mormons abandoned Nauvoo in the spring of 1846 as anti-Mormons pounded the town with cannon, destroying the Great Temple. In a well-coordinated migration, 15,000 Mormons moved in stages to the Great Salt Lake.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 334-335) Many walked all the way and many died along the way, including innocent babes.

Joseph Smith at one time was tarred and feathered by a mob. No jury, no trial, no judge – and they had planned to castrate him, too. On October 27, 1838, the then governor of Missouri issued an “extermination order”: “The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the State if necessary . . .” Far West History (n.d.) Please note that the order called for exterminating “Mormons” making no distinction between men, women and children, and indeed women and children were subject to the extermination order.

In an event known in LDS history as “the Haun’s Mill Massacre”, precipitated by the extermination order, 30 to 40 LDS families were surprised by some 200 to 250 militia. After the smoke cleared, seventeen LDS people lay dead including a ten-year-old boy. Thirteen LDS members were wounded including a woman and a seven-year-old boy. “A few Missourians returned the next day and took plunder.” LDS FAQ (n.d.) No Missouri militiamen were killed but three were wounded. Just a few years earlier, the LDS folk who died that day had been members of other churches - Congregational or Methodist or Baptist or Presbyterian.

In l976, Governor Bond of Missouri officially rescinded the extermination order and presented apologies for the “unfortunate developments” it caused. Quoting from Governor Bond’s Executive Order: “WHEREAS, Governor Boggs’ order clearly contravened the rights to life, liberty, property and religious freedom as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, as well as the Constitution of the State of Missouri; and . . . Expressing on behalf of all Missourians our deep regret for the injustice and undue suffering rescind Executive Order Number 44 dated October 27, 1838, issued by Governor W. Boggs. . .” Far West History (n.d.) The individuals who harassed, abused, and even murdered Mormons in cold blood were never tried for their crimes.

I read Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.’s Letter from Birmingham Jail and it really touched my heart. There he was, suffering for the Lord in jail, and these religious leaders with highfalutin titles on the outside wrote an open letter (“A Call for Unity”) in which they criticize King’s tactics and basically blame King for the racial turmoil of the time. Though you can tell King is upset and hurt by the attack – made worse because he’s stuck in jail and can’t confront the religious leaders face-to-face – his response is gentle genius. “I wish you had commended the Negro sit-inners and demonstrators of Birmingham for their sublime courage, their willingness to suffer, and their amazing discipline in the midst of great provocation. One day the South will recognize its real heroes.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 881)

King has a few choice words for the Church, too: “If today’s church does not recapture the sacrificial spirit of the early church, it will lose its authenticity, forfeit the loyalty of millions, and be dismissed as an irrelevant social club with no meaning for the twentieth century. Every day I meet young people whose disappointment with the church has turned into outright disgust.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 880)

King signs off with “Yours for the cause of Peace and Brotherhood”.

There’s an eerie commonality between what JFK and MLK endured at the hands of the religious bigots of their day and what Mitt Romney is facing today. I hope and pray that Romney will be able to fend off these undeserved attacks from the religious hypocrites with the same grace, dignity and God-inspired resolve displayed by the other two.

A few popular bumper stickers read: “Honk if you love Jesus” and “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven” or “Jesus is my co-pilot”. Yet, apparently, these same bumper-sticker Christians are the ones waging war against Mitt Romney’s run for the Presidency solely on the basis of his chosen faith in a Church that bears the name of the Savior of the world.

References

ABC News - 20/20 (2007). Philanthropic donations come from your heart, but where do they end up? Ex-money manager says "enough!" to secretive Christian Ministry spending. Glenn Ruppel & John Stossel. United States: ABC News.

Ayers, E. L., Gould, L. L., Oshinsky, D. M., & Soderlund, J. R. (2004). American Passages - a history of the United States - Volume I: to 1877 (2nd ed.). Belmont, California: Thomson/Wadsworth.

Barnet, S., & Bedau, H. (2005). Letter from Birmingham Jail. Current Issues and Enduring Questions - a guide to critical thinking and argument, with readings (7th ed., pp. 867-882). Boston and New York: Bedford/St. Martin's.

Far West History. (n.d.). The Extermination Order and how it was rescinded. Retrieved April 28, 2007, from http://www.jwha.info/mmff/exorder.htm

Hewitt, H. (2007). A Mormon in the White House? 10 things every American should know about Mitt Romney. Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing, Inc.

John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum. (1960, September 12). Address of Senator John F. Kennedy to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://www.jfklibrary.org

Lds Faq. (n.d.). What was the Haun's Mill Massacre? Retrieved April 28-2007, 2004, from Brigham Young University Web Site: http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/view.asp?q=57

Media Matters for America. (2007). Fox News whitewashes evangelical hostility to Romney's faith. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://mediamatters.org/items/printable/200702280002


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: boggsforgovernor; cuespookymusic; election; lds; mormon; mormons; romney; whitesalamanderblues
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To: Don Carlos; colorcountry
Hello.

So were you named after Jospeh Smith’s brother?

2,161 posted on 05/11/2007 7:34:32 AM PDT by sevenbak (A LIE travels around the world while the TRUTH is still putting on its boots -Winston Churchill)
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To: stryker2008
I feel like an idiot defending Romney, but leave him alone for being LDS. true conservatives won’t allow him to get the nomination, but uggh if it happens,I will hold my nose and vote for himm, and he will need to do a kennedyesc speech on religous tolerance so bigots stop persecuting people based on what religion they are. sheesh.

Thank you styker, well said! It's this very attitude that is dominant nationally, not the "millions" that will not vote for him because of his faith, which has been floated here.

2,162 posted on 05/11/2007 7:40:40 AM PDT by sevenbak (A LIE travels around the world while the TRUTH is still putting on its boots -Winston Churchill)
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To: Utah Girl

I am somewhere between Thompson and Hunter, anti-abortion, pro Iraq war, for closed borders, pro-nuclear energy instead of ethanol, limited government, low taxes - where I differ from the standard conservative is that I’d allow recreational drugs but tax and regulate them (let the states throw fines at public nuisances). Christian Lutheran. About to make my first million, self made.

And I don’t have a problem with criticism of Martin Luther’s flaws, he didn’t try to pretend he was som God in the making, though he was undoubtedly more inspired and had greater impact than Joseph Smith. Luther translated the first German bible from Latin, and unlike Joseph Smith no one thinks he did it looking through a seer stone. He never tried to elevate his catechism to the level of a bible either.

Luther is a parallel to Joseph Smith and no doubt divinely inspired by the same God you claim to worship. So, one of the two is a fraud. Either the educated monk who never claimed to be a God in the making, or your crystal gazing seer whose BOM has not a pot shard of archaeological evidence, is a fraud as phony as a three dollar bill.

Your whole religion rests really on the divinity of Joseph Smith. Rotsa Ruck.


2,163 posted on 05/11/2007 7:48:51 AM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: FastCoyote
Give it a rest FC. Jesus Christ, the only begotten son of God is our Lord and Savior, and we worship him with all our souls. Please don't tell me who I worship, I don't tell you that. Our doctrine is absolutely clear on this!

2 Nephi 25:26

And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.

2,164 posted on 05/11/2007 7:52:24 AM PDT by sevenbak (A LIE travels around the world while the TRUTH is still putting on its boots -Winston Churchill)
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To: colorcountry

[Of course Romney will not preach from the Presidential pulpit. No one believes that he will.

His high powered office, and the repetive use of Romney as an example and used for PR (just like the Church used the Osmonds, Gladys Night, Glen Beck, etc, etc) will be a way to legitimize Mormonism. This will cause great harm to Christianity that believes Christ IS God.

So by our voting for Romney, we are being unwittingly used by the LDS Church to heighten it’s religious standing and legitimacy. The LDS tells us not to use Romney’s religion when we decide our vote, will they in turn promise NEVER to use the Office of President to promote their Church?]

That sums it up quite nicely. Besides, Mormons never start out with the crystal gazing stuff or the God of a planet things, they always have to hide most of their core beliefs until their shoe is in the door (never shows up in the ads, does it?)


2,165 posted on 05/11/2007 7:53:57 AM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: colorcountry; Utah Girl
Today our nation doesn't fight a civil war, with brother fighting against brother," he said. "But we are plagued with brother fighting brother with handguns in university classrooms, drunk drivers in vehicles on the streets and highways, and hate-filled talk on the radio or in DVDs."

Boy, the comparison speaks volumes. Talk is as dangerous (where's that "free speech" thing) as being shot at or targeted by a drunk driver.

2,166 posted on 05/11/2007 7:59:46 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Fred sez "I'm not interested in being the tallest midget in the room.." RUN FRED RUN!)
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To: FastCoyote
So, divinely inspired Prophet Young either was “mistranscribed” or was “misinterpreted”. For a bunch of holy guys they sure left a string of goobered up inspiration in need of corrective revelations.

Do you really want to get into a discussion of biblical prophets being corrected or correcting themselves later? That might be FUN! Be careful, what's good for our goose, may not be so good for your gander.

2,167 posted on 05/11/2007 8:00:59 AM PDT by sevenbak (A LIE travels around the world while the TRUTH is still putting on its boots -Winston Churchill)
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To: restornu

I thought they hadn’t decided on a time yet?


2,168 posted on 05/11/2007 8:02:28 AM PDT by sevenbak (A LIE travels around the world while the TRUTH is still putting on its boots -Winston Churchill)
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To: colorcountry

Sources please


2,169 posted on 05/11/2007 8:05:45 AM PDT by sevenbak (A LIE travels around the world while the TRUTH is still putting on its boots -Winston Churchill)
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To: sevenbak

Hilarious that a Jewish/Indian used the word “Christ” so often, since Christ is the Greek title for Savior, and wan’t even in existence until Jesus Christs time. Andyet you claim this 2 Nephi was written when??

Don’t you think perhaps a “true” Hebrew would have used the word Jehova and not a word that was unknown in his day?

And don’t you think (if you are to claim that Josseph translated the term Jehova into “christ” to utilize the modern English term) that he would have also done the same to words like curelom or adieu?


2,170 posted on 05/11/2007 8:06:13 AM PDT by colorcountry (The smiley lies.)
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To: Saundra Duffy
Romney says he wept when he learned of the overturning of the “rule” against black men in the Priesthood.

There were many many who did, including my parents. It was a long time coming.

2,171 posted on 05/11/2007 8:07:38 AM PDT by sevenbak (A LIE travels around the world while the TRUTH is still putting on its boots -Winston Churchill)
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To: sevenbak; colorcountry
Scratching my head on that question.

My LDS roots go back to PP Pratt through my maternal grandmother, who BTW, was a sister to George Romney's mother Anna Amelia Pratt. That makes George R. and my father 1st cousins, and Mitt and I are second cousins.

Haven't ruled Mitt in or out on my vote yet. I'm sure the LDS bashing will always haunt his candidacy, and nothing he can say or do will stop it. Let's just say, if he gets through the primaries and gets the nomination, I will probably support him. I doubt, though, that I'll have to decide.

On the other hand, "Yo Mitt, 'member me your cousin Don Carlos?"

2,172 posted on 05/11/2007 8:08:09 AM PDT by Don Carlos (MSgt, USAF (Ret))
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To: sevenbak

When Al Sharpton told Paula Zahn that blacks weren’t allowed the priesthood until 1978, she told him that cnn’s researchers claim that it was actually 1965. ???

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/05/09/romney.sharpton.ap/index.html

Perhaps the Church didn’t give CNN that information. I wonder where they got it? Do you have any idea?


2,173 posted on 05/11/2007 8:17:39 AM PDT by colorcountry (The smiley lies.)
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To: VegasBaby

Well said!


2,174 posted on 05/11/2007 8:22:48 AM PDT by sevenbak (A LIE travels around the world while the TRUTH is still putting on its boots -Winston Churchill)
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To: colorcountry
Didn't you get the memo from the Mormonism control room?... You're not allowed to point out the gross lies and fabrications in Joe Smith's 'novel' because that's now politically correction defined as bigotry. You are not allowed to show evidence of the Smith scam with the B of M and his subsequent 'inspired' D & C which had to be 'edited' extensively within less than five years, to conform with the anassailable critical points of error in Smith's con.

CC, you must not defend Christianity or the Gospel of Grace because Mormonism is now a protected species of heresies since they tell people they have Christ in their name but he is the brother of Satan, and God the Creator of the universe needed a council of lesser gods to create the Universe since God was evolved from mere mortal flesh. Shhhh, CC, you don't want to be assaulted for pointing out the heresies do you?

2,175 posted on 05/11/2007 8:23:21 AM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
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To: colorcountry
Back to the basics color...

Galatians 5:

22 But the fruit of the spirit is love, Joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance:
against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

I think there has been far to many posts provoking one another, myself included. I'm trying to repent and not be so easily offended.

We could all use a little more fruit salad!

2,176 posted on 05/11/2007 8:31:58 AM PDT by sevenbak (A LIE travels around the world while the TRUTH is still putting on its boots -Winston Churchill)
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To: F15Eagle

I’m sorry F15, Satan having the chance now to obtain salvation is not a quote from one of our own. Please source.


2,177 posted on 05/11/2007 8:34:53 AM PDT by sevenbak (A LIE travels around the world while the TRUTH is still putting on its boots -Winston Churchill)
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To: sevenbak
I think we need to talk about the Urimm and Thurimm and the seer stone Joseph Smith pulled from a well:

http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no95.htm

How were the Plates Translated?

Most Mormons believe that Joseph Smith translated the gold plates with what was known as the Urim and Thummim. Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie wrote: "From time to time, as his purposes require, the Lord personally, or through the ministry of appointed angels, delivers to chosen prophets a Urim and Thummim to be used in receiving revelations and in translating ancient records from unknown tongues. With the approval of the Lord these prophets are permitted to pass these instruments on to their mortal successors… Because of the sacred nature of these holy instruments, they have not been viewed by most men, and even the times and circumstances under which they have been held by mortals are not clearly set forth… Joseph Smith received the same Urim and Thummim had by the Brother of Jared for it was the one expressly provided for the translation of the Jaredite and Nephite records." (Mormon Doctrine, 1979, by Bruce R. McConkie, p. 818)

Joseph Smith’s mother wrote the following concerning the Urim and Thummim:

That of which I spoke, which Joseph termed a key, was indeed, nothing more nor less than the Urim and Thummim, and it was by this that the angel showed him many things which he saw in vision; by which he could ascertain, at any time, the approach of danger, either to himself or the Record, and on account of which he always kept the Urim and Thummim about his person. (Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith the Prophet and his Progenitors for Many Generations, page 106; also reproduced in Early Mormon Documents, Vol. 1)

On page 101 of the same book, Lucy Smith claimed that Joseph actually allowed her to examine the Urim and Thummim:

I knew not what he meant, but took the article of which he spoke into my hands, and, upon examination, found that it consisted of two smooth three-cornered diamonds set in glass, and the glasses were set in silver bows, which were connected with each other in much the same way as old fashioned spectacles. He took them again and left me, but said nothing respecting the Record. (Biographical Sketches, page 101)

Although Joseph Smith was supposed to have the Urim and Thummim, the evidence shows that he preferred to use the seer stone found in a well to translate the Book of Mormon. The Mormon historian B. H. Roberts acknowledged the use of one of Joseph Smith’s seer stones. He made the following statement in the Comprehensive History of the Church, Vol. 1, page 129:

The Seer Stone referred to here was a chocolate-colored, somewhat egg-shaped stone which the Prophet found while digging a well in the company of his brother Hyrum, for a Mr. Clark Chase, near Palmyra, N.Y. It possessed the qualities of Urim and Thummim, since by means of it — as described above — as well as by means of the Interpreters found with the Nephite record, Joseph was able to translate the characters engraven on the plates.

Joseph Smith’s father-in-law, Isaac Hale, noticed a definite relationship between the method Joseph Smith used to translate the Book of Mormon and the way he searched for buried treasures. In an affidavit that Isaac Hale provided we find some very interesting information:

I first became acquainted with Joseph Smith, Jr. in November, 1825. He was at that time in the employ of a set of men who were called "money-diggers;" and his occupation was that of seeing, or pretending to see by means of a stone placed in his hat, and his hat closed over his face. In this way he pretended to discover minerals and hidden treasure… Smith, and his father with several other "money-diggers" boarded at my house while they were employed in digging for a mine that they supposed had been opened and worked by the Spaniards, many years since. Young Smith gave the "money-diggers" great encouragement, at first, but when they had arrived in digging, to near the place where he had stated an immense treasure would be found — he said the enchantment was so powerful that he could not see…

After these occurrences, young Smith made several visits at my house, and at length asked my consent to his marrying my daughter Emma. This I refused, and gave him my reasons for so doing; some of which were, that he was a stranger, and followed a business that I could not approve: he then left the place. Not long after this, he returned, and while I was absent from home, carried off my daughter, into the state of New York, where they were married without my approbation or consent… In a short time they returned…

Smith stated to me, that he had given up what he called "glass-looking," and that he expected to work hard for a living, and was willing to do so… Soon after this, I was informed they had brought a wonderful book of Plates down with them… The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret, was the same as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, and his hat over his face, while the Book of Plates were at the same time hid in the woods! (The Susquehanna Register, May 1, 1834)

David Whitmer, one of the three witnesses to the Book of Mormon, described how Joseph Smith placed the "seer stone" into a hat to translate the Book of Mormon:

I will now give you a description of the manner in which the Book of Mormon was translated. Joseph would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. (An Address to All Believers in Christ, by David Whitmer, 1887, p.12)

In a letter written March 27, 1876, Emma Smith acknowledged that the entire Book of Mormon, that we have today, was translated by the use of the seer stone. James E. Lancaster wrote:

How can the testimonies of Emma Smith and David Whitmer, describing the translation of the Book of Mormon with a seer stone, be reconciled with the traditional account of the church that the Book of Mormon was translated by the "interpreters" found in the stone box with the plates? It is the extreme good fortune of the church that we have testimony by Sister Emma Smith Bidamon on this important issue… a woman… wrote to Emma Bidamon, requesting information as to the translation of the Book of Mormon. Emma Bidamon replied… March 27, 1876. Sister Bidamon’s letter states in part:

"Now the first that my husband translated, was translated by the use of the Urim and Thummim, and that was the part that Martin Harris lost, after that he used a small stone, not exactly black, but was rather a dark color…"

Sister Bidamon’s letter indicated that at first the Book of Mormon was translated by the Urim and Thummim. She refers to the instrument found with the plates. However, this first method was used only for the portion written on the 116 pages of foolscap, which Martin Harris later lost. After that time the translation was done with the seer stone. (Saints’ Herald, November 15, 1962, page 15; Emma’s letter is also reproduced in Early Mormon Documents, Vol. 1, p.532)

David Whitmer frankly admitted that he never did see Joseph Smith use what was later known as the Urim and Thummim (the two stones set in silver bows). This information is found in an article in the Saints’ Herald:

According to the testimony of Emma Smith and David Whitmer, the angel took the Urim and Thummim from Joseph Smith at the time of the loss of the 116 pages. This was in June 1828, one year before David became involved with the work of translation. David Whitmer could never have been present when the Urim and Thummim were used. All of this he clearly states in his testimony to Brother Traughber:

"With the sanction of David Whitmer, and by his authority, I now state he does not say that Joseph Smith ever translated in his presence by aid of Urim and Thummim, but by means of one dark colored, opaque stone called a ‘Seer Stone,’ which was placed in the crown of a hat, into which Joseph put his face, so as to exclude the external light. Then, a spiritual light would appear before Joseph, upon which was a line of characters from the plates, and under it, the translation in English; at least, so Joseph said." (Saints’ Herald, November 15, 1962, page 16) ***************************


Joseph Smith was an occultist charlatan, phony as a three dollar bill with his name signed to it:

If I tried to pull off this much crap and then called myself a prophet they'd have me in the county jail for fraud. Then I could claim I was a misunderstood victim of religious persecution and a bunch of knuckleheads would follow me.

Of course, if Joseph Smith does it, he's a saint.

2,178 posted on 05/11/2007 8:35:36 AM PDT by FastCoyote
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Comment #2,179 Removed by Moderator

To: Saundra Duffy

Saundra, that does sound strange that YWAM’s mission was to teach other Christians, rather than reach out to non-Christians. I can see why it left a bad taste in your mouth.

I would be curious to know how you decided you wanted to become a member of the LDS? How did you feel it was different from other churches? How did you decide that Mormon teachings were true? Maybe you’ve already answered this in other posts, as I haven’t read all of them yet.


2,180 posted on 05/11/2007 8:38:18 AM PDT by Abigail Adams
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