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They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious Bigotry, alive and well today
Saundra Duffy

Posted on 05/04/2007 5:46:36 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy

They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious bigotry, alive and well today

May 4, 2007 - by Saundra Duffy-Hawkins

“I wouldn’t vote for a Mormon for dogcatcher, much less President of the United States!” There’s a lot of that kind of hateful rhetoric going around since Mitt Romney decided to throw his hat in the ring – as if Mormons are some kind of hideous evil monsters. The loudest anti-Mormon shouts, sad to say, are coming from America’s so-called “Christian right”. How can Mitt Romney hope to get a fair shake in this spiritually polluted atmosphere?

There was another man running for President who faced the same dilemma – John F. Kennedy – only he was the target of anti-CATHOLIC bigotry. In his 1960 speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, JFK said the following: “. . .I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end - where all men and all churches are treated as equal - where man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice - where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind - and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their words in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.” John F. Kennedy Library & Museum (Speeches, 1960). By the way, if you listen to the audio version of JFK’s speech, you will hear the hurt and frustration in his voice and the unfair treatment surely must have caused many a sleepless night.

Fast forward to 2007 where JFK might as well have been “whistlin’ Dixie”. The hostility toward Mormons today, in my opinion, is even worse than that suffered by JFK. Although it is said that JFK lost about a million votes to religious intolerance, Romney stands to lose even more if the anti-Mormon evangelicals hang together.

According to Media Matters for America - “. . . a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media” - FOX News is not reporting accurately on the level of evangelical hostility to the Romney run. Media Matters for America points out that among evangelical leaders rejecting Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson (National Day of Prayer and Focus on the Family, respectively), the Southern Baptist Convention (collectively), Pat Robertson (Christian Broadcasting Network), and Dr. D. James Kennedy (Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Florida). “Among many conservative evangelicals – who comprise a significant part of the Republican base – Mormonism is considered an un-Christian cult.” Media Matters for America (2007)

While stumping in Florida, a man in the audience stood up during the Q&A portion and said the following to Romney: “You, sir, you’re a pretender. You do not know the Lord. You’re a Mormon.” Media Matters for America (2007). This is the kind of un-American, disrespectful treatment Mitt Romney will apparently have to endure throughout the entire campaign – as if just being a Mormon is reason enough to open the floodgates for free flow of pent-up hatred and vindictiveness.

For the record, the Mormon bashers know full well that the official name of Romney’s church is “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” and the members should rightfully be called “members of the LDS Church” but the words “Mormon” and “Mormonism” have an aura of negativity so they prefer to use the “M” word as if it were dirty.

Less than five minutes cruising around the official LDS website (LDS.org) will show anyone who’s interested that the Church is a Christian organization, with Jesus Christ at the Head. There are no paid clergy – all are volunteers. Humanitarian aid is legendary. Members of the LDS Church believe in strong family values; they are patriotic, they are law-abiding upstanding citizens of their community. Many LDS young men right out of high school go on two-year missions – you know, the guys on bikes – and during their mission they don’t date, read newspapers, go to movies or watch TV; but rather they dedicate two years of their lives to serving others. Many women go on missions as well, and couples, only theirs is 18 months in length but the obligations are basically the same. Most members do not shop or go out to eat on Sundays – reminiscent of the good old days when shops and stores were closed in obedience to the Commandment, “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy”. If they can help it, LDS Church members do not work on Sundays, either, preferring to spend the day at church and with their families. Church members are encouraged to store up a year’s supply of food and water so they will be able to care for their families in the event of an emergency. The LDS Church believes in self-sufficiency and self-reliance but in the event of a financial hardship the Church distributes food and supplies through their welfare (Bishop’s Storehouse) program. Members of the LDS Church do not drink alcohol nor do they use illicit drugs; they do not drink coffee and tea. A Mormon in good standing, therefore, will not be found in a drunken stupor puking her guts out at 3 a.m. anywhere in the world. Furthermore, members of the church are encouraged to dress modestly, be polite and courteous. And members of the LDS Church are faithful tithe payers. Come on, people, what’s not to love?

So what on earth is their beef, the anti-Mormon zealots? Why is there such disdain for the LDS Church and its members? In Hugh Hewitt’s book, “Mormon in the White House?” he states his thesis that the fierce anti-Mormon sentiment among main-stream Christians stems from one or two or all three of the following factors (in order of importance):

1) “It is just too weird.

2) “A Mormon president will supercharge Mormons’ missionary work.

3) “If there is a Mormon in the White House, Salt Lake City will call the shots, at least on the biggest issues.” Hewitt (2007, p. 221-227)

Hugh Hewitt has written an exquisite book about the Romney campaign and overcoming the “Mormon problem.” It’s a good read and I highly recommend it. Of the three problem points listed in the previous paragraph, Hewitt believes – unless some unforeseen blunder destroys his chances – none of the three is insurmountable for Mitt Romney. (Plus, he has the best hair.)

Well, I’m no Hugh Hewitt, not even close; he’s an icon on the conservative radio talk show circuit. Hewitt could talk circles around me (I’ve seen him in action in Sacramento); he’s brilliant; he’s well educated, well read, no doubt a genius, plus he’s kind of cute. I’m basically a “nobody” – an overweight grandma – but after having researched for this paper, I have come to a totally different conclusion as to why there is such in-your-face angst over Romney’s religion of choice: It’s all about money, power and control (in that order). I think they’re (the evangelical religious bigots, that is) scared half to death and are revving up their attacks, not to save souls, but to save their reputations (which if tarnished would lead to financial ruin).

As I said, all one must do is browse around the LDS official web site to see what the LDS Church believes and stands for. Any reasonable person would conclude that Mormons are not evil monsters at all. In fact, they are God fearing, Christ believing, Holy Ghost following people going about doing good. “You will know them by their fruit” and the LDS has plenty of fruit and they are willing to share.

Earlier, I stated that some high-powered ministries have publicly condemned Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson, the Southern Baptist Convention, Pat Robertson, and Dr. D. James Kennedy – just to name a few. There are hoards of others. Sunday after Sunday, preachers, evangelists, reverends and ministers from all Christian denominations pound the pulpit with anti-Mormon rhetoric. I heard the message loud clear when I was a Baptist and when I tiptoed through evangelical/Pentecostal territories. Was I ever miffed when I later learned for myself the Gospel truth about the LDS Church.

Just think about it, please. If Dr. D. James Kennedy, for example, who wrote the book, The Wolves Among Us, were to admit he’d been wrong in labeling the LDS Church a “cult” that leads unwary ignorant people astray (to hell), what would become of his multi-million-dollar ministry? Suffice it to say, there’s big money to be had by sale of books, tapes, CD’s, videos, and other anti-Mormon propaganda, not to mention speaking engagements and world-wide religious crusades. We’re talking trillions, all told. I realize the anti-Mormon aspect of these ministries is but a small portion of the business, but if the truth came out, that they had been using falsehoods about the LDS Church as a cash cow, their entire empires could tumble.

The ABC News program 20/20 aired on March 23, 2007, exposed the lavish lifestyles of some of the top evangelical preachers – million dollar mansions and personal jets. ABC News - 20/20 (2007) (Again, the LDS Church has no paid clergy.)

It’s nothing new. Severe harassment and persecution has been the lot of the LDS Church since it’s inception in 1820 when a 14-year-old boy named Joseph Smith saw visions and communed with heavenly beings. Rather than discuss the spiritual aspects of the LDS Church, however, let’s stick to facts of history. Taken from a college-level early American history textbook, Joseph Smith, upon experiencing the visions and visitations, believed “that God had work for me to do, and that my name should be for good and evil among all nations, kindreds and tongues.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 292). The textbook continues, “They were met with hostility virtually everywhere they went . . . . As the movement gathered momentum, hundreds of people joined the church; entire congregations of churches of other faiths joined . . .” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 293)

During the dark time of American history when slavery was flourishing and when Native Americans were forced from their lands, the pioneers of the LDS Church also suffered at the hands of unscrupulous politicians, governmental leaders, and angry hate-filled mobs. “In the face of relentless persecution, Joseph Smith, the founder of the church, had led his flock to Illinois. There they had established the town of Nauvoo, which by the mid-1840’s had become the largest city in Illinois with over 15,000 people. . . In June 1844, a mob of non-Mormons broke into the jail where Smith was being held and killed both him and his brother. . .The Mormons abandoned Nauvoo in the spring of 1846 as anti-Mormons pounded the town with cannon, destroying the Great Temple. In a well-coordinated migration, 15,000 Mormons moved in stages to the Great Salt Lake.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 334-335) Many walked all the way and many died along the way, including innocent babes.

Joseph Smith at one time was tarred and feathered by a mob. No jury, no trial, no judge – and they had planned to castrate him, too. On October 27, 1838, the then governor of Missouri issued an “extermination order”: “The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the State if necessary . . .” Far West History (n.d.) Please note that the order called for exterminating “Mormons” making no distinction between men, women and children, and indeed women and children were subject to the extermination order.

In an event known in LDS history as “the Haun’s Mill Massacre”, precipitated by the extermination order, 30 to 40 LDS families were surprised by some 200 to 250 militia. After the smoke cleared, seventeen LDS people lay dead including a ten-year-old boy. Thirteen LDS members were wounded including a woman and a seven-year-old boy. “A few Missourians returned the next day and took plunder.” LDS FAQ (n.d.) No Missouri militiamen were killed but three were wounded. Just a few years earlier, the LDS folk who died that day had been members of other churches - Congregational or Methodist or Baptist or Presbyterian.

In l976, Governor Bond of Missouri officially rescinded the extermination order and presented apologies for the “unfortunate developments” it caused. Quoting from Governor Bond’s Executive Order: “WHEREAS, Governor Boggs’ order clearly contravened the rights to life, liberty, property and religious freedom as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, as well as the Constitution of the State of Missouri; and . . . Expressing on behalf of all Missourians our deep regret for the injustice and undue suffering rescind Executive Order Number 44 dated October 27, 1838, issued by Governor W. Boggs. . .” Far West History (n.d.) The individuals who harassed, abused, and even murdered Mormons in cold blood were never tried for their crimes.

I read Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.’s Letter from Birmingham Jail and it really touched my heart. There he was, suffering for the Lord in jail, and these religious leaders with highfalutin titles on the outside wrote an open letter (“A Call for Unity”) in which they criticize King’s tactics and basically blame King for the racial turmoil of the time. Though you can tell King is upset and hurt by the attack – made worse because he’s stuck in jail and can’t confront the religious leaders face-to-face – his response is gentle genius. “I wish you had commended the Negro sit-inners and demonstrators of Birmingham for their sublime courage, their willingness to suffer, and their amazing discipline in the midst of great provocation. One day the South will recognize its real heroes.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 881)

King has a few choice words for the Church, too: “If today’s church does not recapture the sacrificial spirit of the early church, it will lose its authenticity, forfeit the loyalty of millions, and be dismissed as an irrelevant social club with no meaning for the twentieth century. Every day I meet young people whose disappointment with the church has turned into outright disgust.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 880)

King signs off with “Yours for the cause of Peace and Brotherhood”.

There’s an eerie commonality between what JFK and MLK endured at the hands of the religious bigots of their day and what Mitt Romney is facing today. I hope and pray that Romney will be able to fend off these undeserved attacks from the religious hypocrites with the same grace, dignity and God-inspired resolve displayed by the other two.

A few popular bumper stickers read: “Honk if you love Jesus” and “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven” or “Jesus is my co-pilot”. Yet, apparently, these same bumper-sticker Christians are the ones waging war against Mitt Romney’s run for the Presidency solely on the basis of his chosen faith in a Church that bears the name of the Savior of the world.

References

ABC News - 20/20 (2007). Philanthropic donations come from your heart, but where do they end up? Ex-money manager says "enough!" to secretive Christian Ministry spending. Glenn Ruppel & John Stossel. United States: ABC News.

Ayers, E. L., Gould, L. L., Oshinsky, D. M., & Soderlund, J. R. (2004). American Passages - a history of the United States - Volume I: to 1877 (2nd ed.). Belmont, California: Thomson/Wadsworth.

Barnet, S., & Bedau, H. (2005). Letter from Birmingham Jail. Current Issues and Enduring Questions - a guide to critical thinking and argument, with readings (7th ed., pp. 867-882). Boston and New York: Bedford/St. Martin's.

Far West History. (n.d.). The Extermination Order and how it was rescinded. Retrieved April 28, 2007, from http://www.jwha.info/mmff/exorder.htm

Hewitt, H. (2007). A Mormon in the White House? 10 things every American should know about Mitt Romney. Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing, Inc.

John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum. (1960, September 12). Address of Senator John F. Kennedy to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://www.jfklibrary.org

Lds Faq. (n.d.). What was the Haun's Mill Massacre? Retrieved April 28-2007, 2004, from Brigham Young University Web Site: http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/view.asp?q=57

Media Matters for America. (2007). Fox News whitewashes evangelical hostility to Romney's faith. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://mediamatters.org/items/printable/200702280002


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: boggsforgovernor; cuespookymusic; election; lds; mormon; mormons; romney; whitesalamanderblues
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To: wintertime; JRochelle
It has happened. Clinton was elected because he wore briefs.

Evidently not nearly as often as he should have. :)
201 posted on 05/04/2007 10:23:39 AM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: MEGoody
Oh, their track record would include personal things, such as do they sacrifice chickens during their religious ceremonies. But merely being an atheist, a satanist or a Wiccan wouldn't cause me to not vote for that person. It would be what they do with that belief that counts.

Now we're getting somewhere, and shows that folks are a little closer toward common ground than you think.

It seems to me you are saying, "Would I NOT vote for someone ONLY because they are a Satanist, Wicca, Muslim, Mormon, etc." Your answer is "no."

But does in fact what a person practices religiously enter into consideration along with their position on the issues and track record? Apparently your answer is "yes."

People are more than the religious label they wear, so yes, people should be evaluated wholistically. All I've been trying to do is to test the people who indicate that Mormonism or any religious practitioner should be "NO" issue whatsoever.

Once we agree that it's least it's part of the entire package (the common ground that I was talking about) then the only thing on which we have divergence is exactly how much weight does each voter attach to that consideration vs. other considerations. And that, I believe, belongs to the category of individual voter discretion.

202 posted on 05/04/2007 10:25:35 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian
Can we stop with this "antimormon" labeling?
I believe that was the point of my posts.
Maybe I failed to make my point - I sometimes do that.
203 posted on 05/04/2007 10:28:54 AM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: Saundra Duffy
"Earlier, I stated that some high-powered ministries have publicly condemned Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson, the Southern Baptist Convention, Pat Robertson, and Dr. D. James Kennedy – just to name a few. There are hoards of others. Sunday after Sunday, preachers, evangelists, reverends and ministers from all Christian denominations pound the pulpit with anti-Mormon rhetoric."

Well Saundra, considering Joseph Smith built your entire false religion on the premise that all other Christians are gentile apostates, what did you expect? Your arguments are as phony as a three dollar bill from the Kirtland Bank, signed by Joseph Smith's good name:

Perhaps if Joseph Smith was run out of Illinois for that swindle, rather than just religious intolerance. While Mitt Romney may be as nice a neighbor as you can get, if you make him a presidential candidate do you sincerely believe no one is going to look into the religious beliefs and history of a group that is younger than our Constitution?

And do you seriously believe all your secret Temple handshakes, and names, and Celestial marriage, and magic underwear, and Jews as American Indians, and God living with his wife on a planet near Kolob, and crystal gazing, and polytheism, and . . . . are not going to be open to debate? And please get off calling people bigots, unless you want to be called a cultist.

204 posted on 05/04/2007 10:33:03 AM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: MEGoody

I am old enough to remember the stories of fear and mistrust because John F. Kennedy was a Catholic (the first Catholic President).

You heard similar complaints and accusations. I vote based upon the following:

Issues.
Integrity.
Intelligence (and the wisdom to use it).

I will not vote for a liberal, Muslim or an ex-president’s wife.


205 posted on 05/04/2007 10:36:31 AM PDT by bedolido (I can forgive you for killing my sons, but I cannot forgive you for forcing me to kill your sons)
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To: MEGoody

“Anyone who wouldn’t vote for someone just because they are a Mormon is a loon.”

You are sooooo right.

“Anyone who wouldn’t vote for someone just because they are a MUSLIM JIHADI is a loon.”

“Anyone who wouldn’t vote for someone just because they are a SANTERIAN CHOPPING OFF CHICKEN HEADS is a loon.”

“Anyone who wouldn’t vote for someone just because they are a SCIENTOLOGIST CRAZY AS TOM CRUISE is a loon.”

“Anyone who wouldn’t vote for someone just because they are a SATANIST is a loon.”

“Anyone who wouldn’t vote for someone just because they are a BHUDDIST ANTI WAR ABSOLUTIST is a loon.”

“Anyone who wouldn’t vote for someone just because they are a MADONNA KABALIST is a loon.”

Thank God religion means nothing in a Presidential candidate. That way moral views can also be as ephemeral as the mist. Everyone’s an atheist now.


206 posted on 05/04/2007 10:38:38 AM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: Colofornian

But that isn’t being “nice”. We’re supposed to only be “fair” and never allow any other decision-making processes to enter into our thinking.

Everyone keeps talking about the length of Romney’s marriage. The Clintons have been married for 31 years. Does that make a good argument to vote for Hillary?

Why is it wrong to chose aspects of Romney’s life and study them closely when trying to determine who he is? One of those aspects would certainly be the LDS. Another would be his marriage and fidelity.

How can most voters, who are reliant on the MSM, learn about candidates unless everyone has open discussion? Surely a place as well known as FR would be ideal for discussing these issues.


207 posted on 05/04/2007 10:39:31 AM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife (Life isn't fair. It's just fairer than death, that's all.--William Goldman)
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To: JRochelle; P-Marlowe
You have exposed the most important point for this thread, IMHO: "I worked with an elderly lady who told me that the only time she ever voted was in 1960 ... She only voted so she could vote against JFK."

I'm 61. I was living next to my grandparent's when Kennedy was running for president. My Grandfather made a special visit to the polls to be sure and not allow Kennedy to be elected President. Was he prejudiced against Kennedy or Catholics? Catholics of course, because my Grandfather was a democrat but he was a deist who feared a man who would follow the dictates of Rome!

That current of prejudicial wrangle is still in our nation, especially when comparison of Christian and non-Christian religions are in question ... and the Rodham-rodent goon squad, aided gleefully by the mainstream media who care not a whit if they destroy the national unity needed to fight a war agaisnt an extremely dangerous enemy, THAT squad will exploit and massacre Romney support to such a degree that conservative voter turnout will drop and usher in a filibuster proof majority in the Senate and a rodent in the White House when the general election comes around. The primary goal of the democrats, in fomenting religious clamor, is to suppress conservative voter turnout or divide it to expose what media will call bigotry because the media has no God but liberal empowerment.

The real issue with a Romney candidacy is not whether Mormonism is a Christian sect or not (I am certain it is not, but that is not the real issue), it is how easily the Rodham-rodent's goons can exploit and divide using the contrast that is easy to point out. And the mere contrasts create a wrangle that alienates conservatives from each other, as debates with Mormon Apologists have revealed on numerous recent threads. The condescension and ridicule, deceit and manipulation of scriptures by those feeling righteous indignation at being challenged on thier religious beliefs has been a sight to behold at FR of late ... and I've been right in the middle of it, giving and receiving while perhaps thousands of readers have been turned off and abandoned the threads. This will happen with voting, too!

Romney is as dangerous to conservatism in America as Rudy Giuliani is ... one because he is an easy target to generate division and appears too malleable, the other because he is not even remotely a conservative and is proud of it and tells conservatives to 'get over yourselves'!

And the article that generated this thread, while fairly well written, is precisely the sort of 'negatives generator' that the DNC goon squad loves to exploit. Just look at how easily negatives have exploded into view, if anyone doubts it.

208 posted on 05/04/2007 10:40:52 AM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
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To: Colofornian
But does in fact what a person practices religiously enter into consideration along with their position on the issues and track record? Apparently your answer is "yes."

If Mormons were required to sacrifice one new born baby a month, and if Mitt practiced that, yes, that would be an issue. Not the same as me disagreeing with him over the BOM. He and I can disagree on that, but that doesn't mean it would impact my vote. The things that I look for is what positions a person takes and how the individual expresses their views.

And that, I believe, belongs to the category of individual voter discretion.

Absolutely. I can't stop someone from voting for or against Mitt just because he is a Mormon. But if that's all they base their vote on, they are looney.

209 posted on 05/04/2007 10:41:16 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: colorado tanker
Oh, good grief. I guess you stand squarely in the basher camp.

Have you visited (or heard of) southwest Utah/Northern AZ border area? Colorado City? Hildale, Utah? Short Creek? Or how about certain small communities in British Columbia or Mexico or a small new start-up in Texas--all where polygamous communities reside, and all who would tell you they are followers of the Book of Mormon.

Some of these folks even live in other parts of Utah and other states, though living covertly as polygamous families.

So, I because I point out "reality" I am a basher? Because you assume none of the U.S. residents would run for higher public office, they're "invisible" and should remain that way?

210 posted on 05/04/2007 10:44:59 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: GovernmentIsTheProblem
Urban Myth....

Your own source states...Newspaper ads for women sometimes did include NINA, but Irish women nevertheless dominated the market for domestics because they provided a reliable supply of an essential service.

Newspaper ads for men with NINA were exceedingly rare.

211 posted on 05/04/2007 10:46:24 AM PDT by Boston Blackie
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To: Boston Blackie

” Your own source states...Newspaper ads for women sometimes did include NINA, but Irish women nevertheless dominated the market for domestics because they provided a reliable supply of an essential service.”

For women it was mostly religious - Protestants not wanting to hire Catholic nannies.


212 posted on 05/04/2007 10:48:51 AM PDT by GovernmentIsTheProblem (Capitalism is the economic expression of individual liberty. Pass it on.)
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To: Colofornian; colorado tanker
We have had judges disbarred, and law officials fired in Utah THIS YEAR for holding public office while plurally married.

In Utah, we are accustomed to polygamists running for office...it really isn’t a far stretch of the imagination as you might assume.

213 posted on 05/04/2007 10:50:57 AM PDT by colorcountry (An Honest Man will change his thoughts to match the truth and a Dishonest Man will change the truth)
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To: Colofornian
It always strikes me that the LDS general authorities and LDS grass roots can be so vigorous to distance themselves from fundamental LDS polygamists in the Southern part of Utah/No AZ--all over (a) polygamy; and (b) which prophet to follow...

...But Christians from historic traditions are supposed to look the other way when deeper and more significant differences are identified between us and LDS.

Yet another inconsistency that shows a lack of intellectual integrity.

That is a telling point. Any questioning of mormon theology, even when buttressed by sources from mormon literature and their own Book of Mormon is immediately attacked as "mormon bashing" or "anti-mormon". Smacks of the methods of the left.

I just don't think that casting the mormons as a "threatened minority" in today's climate is going to fly, there is a shortage of "authentic minorities" in the mormon church in this country. (Most of the minorities being converted to mormonism are in other countries.)

214 posted on 05/04/2007 10:54:18 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (I'm proud to be a FREDHEAD. Run Fred Run!)
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To: Pan_Yans Wife; colorcountry; needlenose_neely; Colofornian
Where did the author of the thread go? This seems strange.

Shift change?

215 posted on 05/04/2007 10:56:15 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (I'm proud to be a FREDHEAD. Run Fred Run!)
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To: Colofornian
You know as well as I do those Colorado City polygamists are a tiny minority and are not accepted by the mainstream LDS churches. The threat of polygamy being established in the U.S. is much greater from the gay rights and polyamory people than those nutburgers.

So, since Jim Jones professed to be a Christian, are you going to refuse to vote for Christian candidates?

216 posted on 05/04/2007 10:56:49 AM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: GovernmentIsTheProblem

Your source admitted NINA existed and then said it was a myth. Sounds like a candidate for political office.


217 posted on 05/04/2007 10:58:46 AM PDT by Boston Blackie
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To: Boston Blackie

“Your source admitted NINA existed and then said it was a myth. Sounds like a candidate for political office.”

Reading comprehension isn’t your strong point, I see.


218 posted on 05/04/2007 11:00:03 AM PDT by GovernmentIsTheProblem (Capitalism is the economic expression of individual liberty. Pass it on.)
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To: Bernard Marx

[Saundra, I was a non-Mormon raised in a 90% Mormon community. I was the only non-Mormon in my elementary school. I know first hand what bigotry is — and I wasn’t the bigot.

The persecution I experienced caused me to study in great detail the history, people, behavior and beliefs of an organization — calling itself a “church” — that could seemingly happily inflict so much pain. This will be my only post on this topic, but:

I would never vote for a Mormon Presidential candidate. I know far too much about the organization, its methods and aims to ever entrust a Mormon with that kind of power. Your Catholic analogy doesn’t hold Holy water. Mormons are a very different kind of phenomenon, as America will learn if it makes what I consider the mistake of electing Romney.]

Well said Bernard. Unless you live near Mormon’s and have seen how they absolutely crush the lives of dissenters, you just don’t understand what a danger Romney is. It isn’t Romney himself, it is the clan and doctrines that comes with him as night follows day.

I got axe handled a number of times by crooked Mormon business partners and two girl friends before I did like you, studied up on the religion to protect myself. Most of the people who are looking the other way on this thread only know a couple Mormon neighbors who have clean homes and nice kids, they haven’t seen the underbelly. Harry Reid is one example, but not the only one I’ve come across.

Mormon bigotry is every bit as intense as anything on the opposite side.


219 posted on 05/04/2007 11:01:41 AM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: MEGoody
If Mormons were required to sacrifice one new born baby a month, and if Mitt practiced that, yes, that would be an issue. Not the same as me disagreeing with him over the BOM. He and I can disagree on that, but that doesn't mean it would impact my vote. The things that I look for is what positions a person takes and how the individual expresses their views.

Well, now you're backtracking just a bit, and trying to qualify your previous statement. Apparently only that which is the most extreme of extreme religious views would serve as a consideration for you? [To emphasize, I'm not "picking" on you re: whatever your personal voting choices would be. I'm only responding to the fact that you indicated that those who take Mormonism into strong or complete consideration are "loonie." So you're the one who now has to defend that position. You are now openly commenting on what the personal voting choices of others are.]

Also, I don't know if this is your intent, but you are now implying that nothing in Mormonism is extreme. Is that what you are saying? [You basically are setting a "standard" where you claim to be able to limit what is "extreme" about LDS beliefs--and what isn't.]

So, without me even reaching in to some "fringe" LDS belief of the past, let me ask you: If Mitt is a mainstream Mormon, that means he thinks every Evangelical/Protestant/Catholic voter is an actual apostate from the faith. First of all, why isn't that an "extreme" viewpoint to you? (to know that the one you're voting--or may be voting for) is mumbling behind your back that you're an apostate with creeds full of abominations)?

Secondly my curiosity cannot be contained: why would that inspire us folks to vote for him? Can someone please explain why the fact that Mitt (if he's a faithful Mormon) believes that Hugh Hewitt is an apostate, why is Hugh so motivated to write a book targeting other Evangelicals to vote for him?

Can anyone explain that to me?

220 posted on 05/04/2007 11:02:58 AM PDT by Colofornian
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