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They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious Bigotry, alive and well today
Saundra Duffy

Posted on 05/04/2007 5:46:36 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy

They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious bigotry, alive and well today

May 4, 2007 - by Saundra Duffy-Hawkins

“I wouldn’t vote for a Mormon for dogcatcher, much less President of the United States!” There’s a lot of that kind of hateful rhetoric going around since Mitt Romney decided to throw his hat in the ring – as if Mormons are some kind of hideous evil monsters. The loudest anti-Mormon shouts, sad to say, are coming from America’s so-called “Christian right”. How can Mitt Romney hope to get a fair shake in this spiritually polluted atmosphere?

There was another man running for President who faced the same dilemma – John F. Kennedy – only he was the target of anti-CATHOLIC bigotry. In his 1960 speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, JFK said the following: “. . .I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end - where all men and all churches are treated as equal - where man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice - where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind - and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their words in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.” John F. Kennedy Library & Museum (Speeches, 1960). By the way, if you listen to the audio version of JFK’s speech, you will hear the hurt and frustration in his voice and the unfair treatment surely must have caused many a sleepless night.

Fast forward to 2007 where JFK might as well have been “whistlin’ Dixie”. The hostility toward Mormons today, in my opinion, is even worse than that suffered by JFK. Although it is said that JFK lost about a million votes to religious intolerance, Romney stands to lose even more if the anti-Mormon evangelicals hang together.

According to Media Matters for America - “. . . a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media” - FOX News is not reporting accurately on the level of evangelical hostility to the Romney run. Media Matters for America points out that among evangelical leaders rejecting Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson (National Day of Prayer and Focus on the Family, respectively), the Southern Baptist Convention (collectively), Pat Robertson (Christian Broadcasting Network), and Dr. D. James Kennedy (Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Florida). “Among many conservative evangelicals – who comprise a significant part of the Republican base – Mormonism is considered an un-Christian cult.” Media Matters for America (2007)

While stumping in Florida, a man in the audience stood up during the Q&A portion and said the following to Romney: “You, sir, you’re a pretender. You do not know the Lord. You’re a Mormon.” Media Matters for America (2007). This is the kind of un-American, disrespectful treatment Mitt Romney will apparently have to endure throughout the entire campaign – as if just being a Mormon is reason enough to open the floodgates for free flow of pent-up hatred and vindictiveness.

For the record, the Mormon bashers know full well that the official name of Romney’s church is “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” and the members should rightfully be called “members of the LDS Church” but the words “Mormon” and “Mormonism” have an aura of negativity so they prefer to use the “M” word as if it were dirty.

Less than five minutes cruising around the official LDS website (LDS.org) will show anyone who’s interested that the Church is a Christian organization, with Jesus Christ at the Head. There are no paid clergy – all are volunteers. Humanitarian aid is legendary. Members of the LDS Church believe in strong family values; they are patriotic, they are law-abiding upstanding citizens of their community. Many LDS young men right out of high school go on two-year missions – you know, the guys on bikes – and during their mission they don’t date, read newspapers, go to movies or watch TV; but rather they dedicate two years of their lives to serving others. Many women go on missions as well, and couples, only theirs is 18 months in length but the obligations are basically the same. Most members do not shop or go out to eat on Sundays – reminiscent of the good old days when shops and stores were closed in obedience to the Commandment, “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy”. If they can help it, LDS Church members do not work on Sundays, either, preferring to spend the day at church and with their families. Church members are encouraged to store up a year’s supply of food and water so they will be able to care for their families in the event of an emergency. The LDS Church believes in self-sufficiency and self-reliance but in the event of a financial hardship the Church distributes food and supplies through their welfare (Bishop’s Storehouse) program. Members of the LDS Church do not drink alcohol nor do they use illicit drugs; they do not drink coffee and tea. A Mormon in good standing, therefore, will not be found in a drunken stupor puking her guts out at 3 a.m. anywhere in the world. Furthermore, members of the church are encouraged to dress modestly, be polite and courteous. And members of the LDS Church are faithful tithe payers. Come on, people, what’s not to love?

So what on earth is their beef, the anti-Mormon zealots? Why is there such disdain for the LDS Church and its members? In Hugh Hewitt’s book, “Mormon in the White House?” he states his thesis that the fierce anti-Mormon sentiment among main-stream Christians stems from one or two or all three of the following factors (in order of importance):

1) “It is just too weird.

2) “A Mormon president will supercharge Mormons’ missionary work.

3) “If there is a Mormon in the White House, Salt Lake City will call the shots, at least on the biggest issues.” Hewitt (2007, p. 221-227)

Hugh Hewitt has written an exquisite book about the Romney campaign and overcoming the “Mormon problem.” It’s a good read and I highly recommend it. Of the three problem points listed in the previous paragraph, Hewitt believes – unless some unforeseen blunder destroys his chances – none of the three is insurmountable for Mitt Romney. (Plus, he has the best hair.)

Well, I’m no Hugh Hewitt, not even close; he’s an icon on the conservative radio talk show circuit. Hewitt could talk circles around me (I’ve seen him in action in Sacramento); he’s brilliant; he’s well educated, well read, no doubt a genius, plus he’s kind of cute. I’m basically a “nobody” – an overweight grandma – but after having researched for this paper, I have come to a totally different conclusion as to why there is such in-your-face angst over Romney’s religion of choice: It’s all about money, power and control (in that order). I think they’re (the evangelical religious bigots, that is) scared half to death and are revving up their attacks, not to save souls, but to save their reputations (which if tarnished would lead to financial ruin).

As I said, all one must do is browse around the LDS official web site to see what the LDS Church believes and stands for. Any reasonable person would conclude that Mormons are not evil monsters at all. In fact, they are God fearing, Christ believing, Holy Ghost following people going about doing good. “You will know them by their fruit” and the LDS has plenty of fruit and they are willing to share.

Earlier, I stated that some high-powered ministries have publicly condemned Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson, the Southern Baptist Convention, Pat Robertson, and Dr. D. James Kennedy – just to name a few. There are hoards of others. Sunday after Sunday, preachers, evangelists, reverends and ministers from all Christian denominations pound the pulpit with anti-Mormon rhetoric. I heard the message loud clear when I was a Baptist and when I tiptoed through evangelical/Pentecostal territories. Was I ever miffed when I later learned for myself the Gospel truth about the LDS Church.

Just think about it, please. If Dr. D. James Kennedy, for example, who wrote the book, The Wolves Among Us, were to admit he’d been wrong in labeling the LDS Church a “cult” that leads unwary ignorant people astray (to hell), what would become of his multi-million-dollar ministry? Suffice it to say, there’s big money to be had by sale of books, tapes, CD’s, videos, and other anti-Mormon propaganda, not to mention speaking engagements and world-wide religious crusades. We’re talking trillions, all told. I realize the anti-Mormon aspect of these ministries is but a small portion of the business, but if the truth came out, that they had been using falsehoods about the LDS Church as a cash cow, their entire empires could tumble.

The ABC News program 20/20 aired on March 23, 2007, exposed the lavish lifestyles of some of the top evangelical preachers – million dollar mansions and personal jets. ABC News - 20/20 (2007) (Again, the LDS Church has no paid clergy.)

It’s nothing new. Severe harassment and persecution has been the lot of the LDS Church since it’s inception in 1820 when a 14-year-old boy named Joseph Smith saw visions and communed with heavenly beings. Rather than discuss the spiritual aspects of the LDS Church, however, let’s stick to facts of history. Taken from a college-level early American history textbook, Joseph Smith, upon experiencing the visions and visitations, believed “that God had work for me to do, and that my name should be for good and evil among all nations, kindreds and tongues.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 292). The textbook continues, “They were met with hostility virtually everywhere they went . . . . As the movement gathered momentum, hundreds of people joined the church; entire congregations of churches of other faiths joined . . .” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 293)

During the dark time of American history when slavery was flourishing and when Native Americans were forced from their lands, the pioneers of the LDS Church also suffered at the hands of unscrupulous politicians, governmental leaders, and angry hate-filled mobs. “In the face of relentless persecution, Joseph Smith, the founder of the church, had led his flock to Illinois. There they had established the town of Nauvoo, which by the mid-1840’s had become the largest city in Illinois with over 15,000 people. . . In June 1844, a mob of non-Mormons broke into the jail where Smith was being held and killed both him and his brother. . .The Mormons abandoned Nauvoo in the spring of 1846 as anti-Mormons pounded the town with cannon, destroying the Great Temple. In a well-coordinated migration, 15,000 Mormons moved in stages to the Great Salt Lake.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 334-335) Many walked all the way and many died along the way, including innocent babes.

Joseph Smith at one time was tarred and feathered by a mob. No jury, no trial, no judge – and they had planned to castrate him, too. On October 27, 1838, the then governor of Missouri issued an “extermination order”: “The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the State if necessary . . .” Far West History (n.d.) Please note that the order called for exterminating “Mormons” making no distinction between men, women and children, and indeed women and children were subject to the extermination order.

In an event known in LDS history as “the Haun’s Mill Massacre”, precipitated by the extermination order, 30 to 40 LDS families were surprised by some 200 to 250 militia. After the smoke cleared, seventeen LDS people lay dead including a ten-year-old boy. Thirteen LDS members were wounded including a woman and a seven-year-old boy. “A few Missourians returned the next day and took plunder.” LDS FAQ (n.d.) No Missouri militiamen were killed but three were wounded. Just a few years earlier, the LDS folk who died that day had been members of other churches - Congregational or Methodist or Baptist or Presbyterian.

In l976, Governor Bond of Missouri officially rescinded the extermination order and presented apologies for the “unfortunate developments” it caused. Quoting from Governor Bond’s Executive Order: “WHEREAS, Governor Boggs’ order clearly contravened the rights to life, liberty, property and religious freedom as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, as well as the Constitution of the State of Missouri; and . . . Expressing on behalf of all Missourians our deep regret for the injustice and undue suffering rescind Executive Order Number 44 dated October 27, 1838, issued by Governor W. Boggs. . .” Far West History (n.d.) The individuals who harassed, abused, and even murdered Mormons in cold blood were never tried for their crimes.

I read Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.’s Letter from Birmingham Jail and it really touched my heart. There he was, suffering for the Lord in jail, and these religious leaders with highfalutin titles on the outside wrote an open letter (“A Call for Unity”) in which they criticize King’s tactics and basically blame King for the racial turmoil of the time. Though you can tell King is upset and hurt by the attack – made worse because he’s stuck in jail and can’t confront the religious leaders face-to-face – his response is gentle genius. “I wish you had commended the Negro sit-inners and demonstrators of Birmingham for their sublime courage, their willingness to suffer, and their amazing discipline in the midst of great provocation. One day the South will recognize its real heroes.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 881)

King has a few choice words for the Church, too: “If today’s church does not recapture the sacrificial spirit of the early church, it will lose its authenticity, forfeit the loyalty of millions, and be dismissed as an irrelevant social club with no meaning for the twentieth century. Every day I meet young people whose disappointment with the church has turned into outright disgust.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 880)

King signs off with “Yours for the cause of Peace and Brotherhood”.

There’s an eerie commonality between what JFK and MLK endured at the hands of the religious bigots of their day and what Mitt Romney is facing today. I hope and pray that Romney will be able to fend off these undeserved attacks from the religious hypocrites with the same grace, dignity and God-inspired resolve displayed by the other two.

A few popular bumper stickers read: “Honk if you love Jesus” and “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven” or “Jesus is my co-pilot”. Yet, apparently, these same bumper-sticker Christians are the ones waging war against Mitt Romney’s run for the Presidency solely on the basis of his chosen faith in a Church that bears the name of the Savior of the world.

References

ABC News - 20/20 (2007). Philanthropic donations come from your heart, but where do they end up? Ex-money manager says "enough!" to secretive Christian Ministry spending. Glenn Ruppel & John Stossel. United States: ABC News.

Ayers, E. L., Gould, L. L., Oshinsky, D. M., & Soderlund, J. R. (2004). American Passages - a history of the United States - Volume I: to 1877 (2nd ed.). Belmont, California: Thomson/Wadsworth.

Barnet, S., & Bedau, H. (2005). Letter from Birmingham Jail. Current Issues and Enduring Questions - a guide to critical thinking and argument, with readings (7th ed., pp. 867-882). Boston and New York: Bedford/St. Martin's.

Far West History. (n.d.). The Extermination Order and how it was rescinded. Retrieved April 28, 2007, from http://www.jwha.info/mmff/exorder.htm

Hewitt, H. (2007). A Mormon in the White House? 10 things every American should know about Mitt Romney. Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing, Inc.

John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum. (1960, September 12). Address of Senator John F. Kennedy to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://www.jfklibrary.org

Lds Faq. (n.d.). What was the Haun's Mill Massacre? Retrieved April 28-2007, 2004, from Brigham Young University Web Site: http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/view.asp?q=57

Media Matters for America. (2007). Fox News whitewashes evangelical hostility to Romney's faith. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://mediamatters.org/items/printable/200702280002


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: boggsforgovernor; cuespookymusic; election; lds; mormon; mormons; romney; whitesalamanderblues
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To: DelphiUser
I am sorry if I hurt your feelings

Didn't hurt my feelings. I think it is sad that a church (no matter which one) would keep family members from being present during a ceremony that is supposed to be so important. But I'm not a member of any of those churches, so if others want to put up with that stuff, that's up to them.

1,461 posted on 05/09/2007 7:29:08 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: MEGoody

Hey MEGoody!

Your tagline is the same as John E. Lee’s headstone on his grave.


1,462 posted on 05/09/2007 7:40:30 AM PDT by colorcountry (It is wrong to criticize the leaders of the church even if the criticism is true ~Dallin Oaks)
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To: tantiboh
Why is it your concern how I choose to schedule my time?

That's just it. The program mentioned that missionaries don't really schedule their time. It's basically established for them.

1,463 posted on 05/09/2007 7:44:04 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Utah Girl
There has to be a structure in place and rules to live by

I appreciate your forthrightness in your response.

As for "structure" and "rules to live by," I don't think any of us expect a missionary experience to be random and fly-by-night, or anarchy with spiritual overtones.

So there's a difference between "structure" and a "super structure," between being managed and being micro-managed. LDS missionaries are micro-managed.

1,464 posted on 05/09/2007 7:49:45 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: colorcountry
Your tagline is the same as John E. Lee’s headstone on his grave.

Okay.

1,465 posted on 05/09/2007 8:08:22 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: colorcountry
This evidence shows that BY knew there were wagon trains.
It does not show that he knew there was only one.

It shows he did not want them to pass through since Utah and the US were effectively at war.
It shows that he was willing to use Paiutes as guerilla fighters in that war (not an uncommon tactic for wars at that time).
It does not show he knew anything about the Massacre that was to come.
In fact, the journal coming out of church archives shows a lack of cover-up by the church or this journal would never have seen the light of day.
It is funny that you try to use a journal that was in church hands and absolute control to say the church is hiding something. This journal does more to prove they are not (note the present tense here) than that they did (Past Tense) participate. The entries in the journal do not show the church doing anything but acting like they were in a war, not that the church was planning a massacre.

CC you know way more that I care to about what actually happened on the day, My interest is in the politics surrounding the event. This journal entry would not have surprised me, if I had not read it before, and it does not show any link between BY and the Massacre.
1,466 posted on 05/09/2007 8:10:51 AM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser
In fact, the journal coming out of church archives shows a lack of cover-up by the church or this journal would never have seen the light of day.

!!!!

1,467 posted on 05/09/2007 8:12:52 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Fred sez "I'm not interested in being the tallest midget in the room.." RUN FRED RUN!)
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To: DelphiUser

Um, okay.


1,468 posted on 05/09/2007 8:14:00 AM PDT by colorcountry (It is wrong to criticize the leaders of the church even if the criticism is true ~Dallin Oaks)
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To: P-Marlowe
Is that statement heresy or orthodoxy?


This was not posted to me, but I have to ask, are you more interested on Consensus (orthodoxy) or Truth?

Truth is sometimes un otrthodox, but still true. You might want to reword your question for clarity.
1,469 posted on 05/09/2007 8:15:06 AM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser

When do you suppose that Journal was made available? Just asking.


1,470 posted on 05/09/2007 8:15:25 AM PDT by colorcountry (It is wrong to criticize the leaders of the church even if the criticism is true ~Dallin Oaks)
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To: Utah Girl
Oh, I agree there is a definite cultural thing. What I was objecting to was the statement was that some would do anything not to be a “Utah Mormon.” That’s where I was coming from, and yes I am sensitive about it.

I am from outside of Utah, so I am not sensative about it (grin) but I do on occasion make fun of it. (and sometimes am guilty of the attitudes as well) A really funny thing is I have some non memeber friends who do a lot of the "Utah Mormon" things and are accused of being "Utah Mormons" and don't even tell people thay are not Mormon Lol!
1,471 posted on 05/09/2007 8:20:49 AM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: colorcountry
When do you suppose that Journal was made available? Just asking.

You said in post # 1435 “Dimick Huntington Journal has survived in the LDS Archives since 1859.”

I did a quick Google and did not find the release date, so you tell me.
1,472 posted on 05/09/2007 8:47:08 AM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser

After Huntington’s journal had come to light in LDS archives later, Provo historian David Bigler (in 1998) fleshed out the details of that September 1 council:

“Hamblin and some twelve Indian chiefs on September first met with Brigham Young and his most trusted interpreter, 49-year-old Dimick Huntington, at Great Salt Lake. Taking part in this pow-wow were Kanosh, the Mormon chief of the Pahvants; Ammon, half-brother of Walker; Tutsegabit, head chief of the Piedes;Youngwuds, another Piede chieftain, and other leaders of desert bands along the Santa Clara and Virgin Rivers. Little was known of what they talked about until recently when it came to light that Huntington (apparently speaking for Young) told the chiefs that he ‘gave them all the cattle that had gone to Cal[ifornia by] the south rout[e].’ The gift ‘made them open their eyes,’ he said. But ‘you have told us not to steal,’ the Indians replied. ‘So I have,’ Huntington said, but now they have come to fight us & you for when they kill us they will kill you.’ The chiefs knew what cattle he was giving them. They belonged to the Baker-Fancher train.” (”Forgotten Kingdom: The Mormon Theocracy in the American West,” David Bigler, 1998, pp. 167-168.)

Huntington’s journal can be read at

http://www.mtn-meadows-assoc.com

Utah historian Hubert Bancroft shed further light on Dimick Huntington’s activities:

“Major Carleton, of the first dragoons. In a despatch to the assistant adjutant-general at San Francisco, dated Mountain Meadows, May 25, 1859, he says: ‘A Pah Ute chief of the Santa Clara band, named Jackson, who was one of the attacking party, and had a brother slain by the emigrants from their corral by the spring, says that orders came down in a letter from Brigham Young that the emigrants were to be killed; and a chief of the Pah Utes, named Touche, now living on the Virgin River, told me that a letter from Brigham Young to the same effect was brought down to the Virgin River band by a man named Huntingdon.’ A copy of the major’s despatch will be found in the Hand-book of Mormonism, 67-9. Cradlebaugh says that after the attack had been made, one of the Indians declared that a white man came to their camp with written orders from Brigham to ‘go and help to whip the emigrants.’ “ (”History of Utah,” p. 561.)

Juanita Brooks quoted from Young’s letter to Jacob Hamblin of August 4, 1857: “Continue the conciliatory policy towards the Indians.....for they must learn that they have got to help us or the United States will kill us both......We have an abundance of ‘news.’ The government have appointed an entire set of officials for the Territory. These Gentry are to have a bodyguard of 2500 of Uncle’s [Sam’s] regulars.”

Of this excerpt, Brooks comments: “In the version of this letter.....printed in ‘Jacob Hamblin, Personal Narrative,’ by James A Little, the phrase ‘for they must learn that they have either got to help us or the United States will kill us both’ is not included. Neither is the entire paragraph which gives the ‘abundance of news.’ The reason for this deletion seems clear.” (Brooks, p. 35.)

The reason for the deletion of this passage in a pro-Mormon edition of Hamblin’s narrative is INDEED clear: The passage clearly shows that Young instructed Hamblin to prepare the southern Indians to help the Mormons act against the U. S. government forces. The excerpt also makes clear that, contrary to some Mormon apologists’ assertions that Young had no foreknowledge of why the Army was marching on SLC, and that therefore ‘justified’ Young in prosecuting his guerrilla war against Johnston’s Army, Young in fact knew very well that the army was sent to depose Young as governor and escort the newly-appointed governor and “an entire set of officials” to replace the territorial judges who had fled Utah fearing for their lives at the hands of Young’s “Danites.” Young’s foreknowledge of the army’s mission means that his orders to prevent the army from entering the Salt Lake Valley constituted an act of treason against the United States, as also did his illegal declaration of martial law; so that is why Mormon apologists deceitfully omit this part of Young’s letter when writing on the subject.

Brooks further offers: “Jacob Hamblin.....decided to take a group of the chiefs to Great Salt Lake City for an interview with the great Mormon chief, Brigham Young. His handwritten diary, as yet unpublished, says: ‘I started for Great Salt Lake City in company with Thales Haskell and Tutsegabit...He had felt anxious for a long time to visit Brigham Young. We fell in company with George A. Smith. Conosh [Kanosh, the Pauvant chief] joined us. Other Indian chiefs also joined our company. When we arrived in the city there were ten of them went up to see Brigham Young, the great Mormon chief. We encamped on Corn Creek on our way up; near a company of Emigrants from Arkansas, on the-——’

“Here the account stops abruptly, for the next leaf is torn out.....What Brigham Young told the chiefs in that hour was not recorded, but we might hazard an opinion that it was not out of harmony with his written instructions that ‘they must learn that they have got to help us or the United States will kill us both.’.....At that time Brigham Young had to be sure of his allies, for he was conducting a war against tremendous odds. The previous Mormon policy had been to keep the natives from stealing and plundering and to teach them the peaceful pursuits of farming and cattle raising, but now Brigham Young seemed determined that he would no longer “hold them by the wrist,” as he told Captain Van Vliet a few days later. The Indians must have started back home immediately, for in seven days they were harassing the emigrants at Mountain Meadows, and in ten days they participated in the massacre of the company.” (Brooks, pp. 40-42.)

In light of this information, it doesn’t take a Sherlock Holmes to deduce what Young told the Indians in that meeting ten days before the MMM. It also doesn’t take a great brain to understand why someone tore the next page out of Hamblin’s diary: it probably gave more details of Young’s “counsel” to Hamblin, Huntingdon, and the Indians as to what to do with the Baker-Fancher train. Bagley documents in “Blood of the Prophets” where pages of journals and other incriminating documents were torn out and destroyed, to eliminate the “paper trail” of evidence which points to Brigham Young’s involvement in the MMM.


1,473 posted on 05/09/2007 9:01:31 AM PDT by colorcountry (It is wrong to criticize the leaders of the church even if the criticism is true ~Dallin Oaks)
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To: sevenbak

LOL. You have a good point.


1,474 posted on 05/09/2007 9:13:18 AM PDT by JRochelle (Just say no to the slick crazy bully.)
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To: colorcountry; sevenbak; DelphiUser; Saundra Duffy

I would not doubt the X Mormons would do anything to defeat someone just becaues they are LDS, it is such a self proclaimed Chirtian thing to do!:)


1,475 posted on 05/09/2007 9:13:34 AM PDT by restornu (Elevate Your Thoughts!)
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To: Saundra Duffy

Note to Sandy.

Recently a family in my church moved to another state. The whole church was there to help them pack and move all the furniture.

Those things happen in any church. Not just your missionaries.


1,476 posted on 05/09/2007 9:17:48 AM PDT by JRochelle (Just say no to the slick crazy bully.)
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To: colorcountry
Any Christian worth his salt must read James exegesically with all the referrences to Grace in the Bible

Show me in the scriptures when did the letter of the law trump the Spirit of the Law?

1,477 posted on 05/09/2007 9:18:33 AM PDT by restornu (Elevate Your Thoughts!)
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To: restornu
would not doubt the X Mormons would do anything to defeat someone just becaues they are LDS, it is such a self proclaimed Chirtian thing to do!:)

You forgot resty. Most ex-Mormon are liberal atheists. They think "once bitten, twice shy," when it comes to any religion especially Christianity.

It is tragic, IMHO.

AS for me.....I believe it is the most Christian thing I can do to point out the fallacy of Mormonism. Mormonism leads people AWAY from Christ. A Romney Presidency would tend to lend legitimacy to Mormonism and many, many MORE Christians would be lead astray by the false Christ of Mormonism. IT MUST BE STOPPED for the sake of Christianity.

My allegiance to the United States of America is second only to my allegiance to Jesus Christ. If you find that offensive, it is your problem and not mine.

1,478 posted on 05/09/2007 9:24:35 AM PDT by colorcountry (It is wrong to criticize the leaders of the church even if the criticism is true ~Dallin Oaks)
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To: JRochelle
Those things happen in any church. Not just your missionaries.

I think her point was they will help anyone.

It was a resource offer, not a brag.
1,479 posted on 05/09/2007 9:25:08 AM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: greyfoxx39
I find it interesting that Mitt supporters depend so much on "backlash". That seems like a pretty slender thread to cling to.

I'll tell you what I find interesting: In the approximately ten days since I moved to NY, the only Presidential candidate I've seen ads for (three of them so far, don't watch a bunch of TV) are for Romney. My first reaction is, what's the point, Hillary has the Rats sewn up, and Giuliani has the Pubbies here, as well. But the more I think of it, the more I think I see the strategy. If Mitt can get a win in Rudy's backyard, in the February 5th primary, it gives him monster momentum in the remaining primaries.

California's primary is the same day. Can CA Freepers tell me if Mitt is investing in ads in your state, this early, as well?

1,480 posted on 05/09/2007 9:36:05 AM PDT by hunter112
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