Posted on 05/04/2007 5:46:36 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy
They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious bigotry, alive and well today
May 4, 2007 - by Saundra Duffy-Hawkins
“I wouldn’t vote for a Mormon for dogcatcher, much less President of the United States!” There’s a lot of that kind of hateful rhetoric going around since Mitt Romney decided to throw his hat in the ring – as if Mormons are some kind of hideous evil monsters. The loudest anti-Mormon shouts, sad to say, are coming from America’s so-called “Christian right”. How can Mitt Romney hope to get a fair shake in this spiritually polluted atmosphere?
There was another man running for President who faced the same dilemma – John F. Kennedy – only he was the target of anti-CATHOLIC bigotry. In his 1960 speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, JFK said the following: “. . .I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end - where all men and all churches are treated as equal - where man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice - where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind - and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their words in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.” John F. Kennedy Library & Museum (Speeches, 1960). By the way, if you listen to the audio version of JFK’s speech, you will hear the hurt and frustration in his voice and the unfair treatment surely must have caused many a sleepless night.
Fast forward to 2007 where JFK might as well have been “whistlin’ Dixie”. The hostility toward Mormons today, in my opinion, is even worse than that suffered by JFK. Although it is said that JFK lost about a million votes to religious intolerance, Romney stands to lose even more if the anti-Mormon evangelicals hang together.
According to Media Matters for America - “. . . a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media” - FOX News is not reporting accurately on the level of evangelical hostility to the Romney run. Media Matters for America points out that among evangelical leaders rejecting Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson (National Day of Prayer and Focus on the Family, respectively), the Southern Baptist Convention (collectively), Pat Robertson (Christian Broadcasting Network), and Dr. D. James Kennedy (Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Florida). “Among many conservative evangelicals – who comprise a significant part of the Republican base – Mormonism is considered an un-Christian cult.” Media Matters for America (2007)
While stumping in Florida, a man in the audience stood up during the Q&A portion and said the following to Romney: “You, sir, you’re a pretender. You do not know the Lord. You’re a Mormon.” Media Matters for America (2007). This is the kind of un-American, disrespectful treatment Mitt Romney will apparently have to endure throughout the entire campaign – as if just being a Mormon is reason enough to open the floodgates for free flow of pent-up hatred and vindictiveness.
For the record, the Mormon bashers know full well that the official name of Romney’s church is “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” and the members should rightfully be called “members of the LDS Church” but the words “Mormon” and “Mormonism” have an aura of negativity so they prefer to use the “M” word as if it were dirty.
Less than five minutes cruising around the official LDS website (LDS.org) will show anyone who’s interested that the Church is a Christian organization, with Jesus Christ at the Head. There are no paid clergy – all are volunteers. Humanitarian aid is legendary. Members of the LDS Church believe in strong family values; they are patriotic, they are law-abiding upstanding citizens of their community. Many LDS young men right out of high school go on two-year missions – you know, the guys on bikes – and during their mission they don’t date, read newspapers, go to movies or watch TV; but rather they dedicate two years of their lives to serving others. Many women go on missions as well, and couples, only theirs is 18 months in length but the obligations are basically the same. Most members do not shop or go out to eat on Sundays – reminiscent of the good old days when shops and stores were closed in obedience to the Commandment, “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy”. If they can help it, LDS Church members do not work on Sundays, either, preferring to spend the day at church and with their families. Church members are encouraged to store up a year’s supply of food and water so they will be able to care for their families in the event of an emergency. The LDS Church believes in self-sufficiency and self-reliance but in the event of a financial hardship the Church distributes food and supplies through their welfare (Bishop’s Storehouse) program. Members of the LDS Church do not drink alcohol nor do they use illicit drugs; they do not drink coffee and tea. A Mormon in good standing, therefore, will not be found in a drunken stupor puking her guts out at 3 a.m. anywhere in the world. Furthermore, members of the church are encouraged to dress modestly, be polite and courteous. And members of the LDS Church are faithful tithe payers. Come on, people, what’s not to love?
So what on earth is their beef, the anti-Mormon zealots? Why is there such disdain for the LDS Church and its members? In Hugh Hewitt’s book, “Mormon in the White House?” he states his thesis that the fierce anti-Mormon sentiment among main-stream Christians stems from one or two or all three of the following factors (in order of importance):
1) “It is just too weird.
2) “A Mormon president will supercharge Mormons’ missionary work.
3) “If there is a Mormon in the White House, Salt Lake City will call the shots, at least on the biggest issues.” Hewitt (2007, p. 221-227)
Hugh Hewitt has written an exquisite book about the Romney campaign and overcoming the “Mormon problem.” It’s a good read and I highly recommend it. Of the three problem points listed in the previous paragraph, Hewitt believes – unless some unforeseen blunder destroys his chances – none of the three is insurmountable for Mitt Romney. (Plus, he has the best hair.)
Well, I’m no Hugh Hewitt, not even close; he’s an icon on the conservative radio talk show circuit. Hewitt could talk circles around me (I’ve seen him in action in Sacramento); he’s brilliant; he’s well educated, well read, no doubt a genius, plus he’s kind of cute. I’m basically a “nobody” – an overweight grandma – but after having researched for this paper, I have come to a totally different conclusion as to why there is such in-your-face angst over Romney’s religion of choice: It’s all about money, power and control (in that order). I think they’re (the evangelical religious bigots, that is) scared half to death and are revving up their attacks, not to save souls, but to save their reputations (which if tarnished would lead to financial ruin).
As I said, all one must do is browse around the LDS official web site to see what the LDS Church believes and stands for. Any reasonable person would conclude that Mormons are not evil monsters at all. In fact, they are God fearing, Christ believing, Holy Ghost following people going about doing good. “You will know them by their fruit” and the LDS has plenty of fruit and they are willing to share.
Earlier, I stated that some high-powered ministries have publicly condemned Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson, the Southern Baptist Convention, Pat Robertson, and Dr. D. James Kennedy – just to name a few. There are hoards of others. Sunday after Sunday, preachers, evangelists, reverends and ministers from all Christian denominations pound the pulpit with anti-Mormon rhetoric. I heard the message loud clear when I was a Baptist and when I tiptoed through evangelical/Pentecostal territories. Was I ever miffed when I later learned for myself the Gospel truth about the LDS Church.
Just think about it, please. If Dr. D. James Kennedy, for example, who wrote the book, The Wolves Among Us, were to admit he’d been wrong in labeling the LDS Church a “cult” that leads unwary ignorant people astray (to hell), what would become of his multi-million-dollar ministry? Suffice it to say, there’s big money to be had by sale of books, tapes, CD’s, videos, and other anti-Mormon propaganda, not to mention speaking engagements and world-wide religious crusades. We’re talking trillions, all told. I realize the anti-Mormon aspect of these ministries is but a small portion of the business, but if the truth came out, that they had been using falsehoods about the LDS Church as a cash cow, their entire empires could tumble.
The ABC News program 20/20 aired on March 23, 2007, exposed the lavish lifestyles of some of the top evangelical preachers – million dollar mansions and personal jets. ABC News - 20/20 (2007) (Again, the LDS Church has no paid clergy.)
It’s nothing new. Severe harassment and persecution has been the lot of the LDS Church since it’s inception in 1820 when a 14-year-old boy named Joseph Smith saw visions and communed with heavenly beings. Rather than discuss the spiritual aspects of the LDS Church, however, let’s stick to facts of history. Taken from a college-level early American history textbook, Joseph Smith, upon experiencing the visions and visitations, believed “that God had work for me to do, and that my name should be for good and evil among all nations, kindreds and tongues.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 292). The textbook continues, “They were met with hostility virtually everywhere they went . . . . As the movement gathered momentum, hundreds of people joined the church; entire congregations of churches of other faiths joined . . .” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 293)
During the dark time of American history when slavery was flourishing and when Native Americans were forced from their lands, the pioneers of the LDS Church also suffered at the hands of unscrupulous politicians, governmental leaders, and angry hate-filled mobs. “In the face of relentless persecution, Joseph Smith, the founder of the church, had led his flock to Illinois. There they had established the town of Nauvoo, which by the mid-1840’s had become the largest city in Illinois with over 15,000 people. . . In June 1844, a mob of non-Mormons broke into the jail where Smith was being held and killed both him and his brother. . .The Mormons abandoned Nauvoo in the spring of 1846 as anti-Mormons pounded the town with cannon, destroying the Great Temple. In a well-coordinated migration, 15,000 Mormons moved in stages to the Great Salt Lake.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 334-335) Many walked all the way and many died along the way, including innocent babes.
Joseph Smith at one time was tarred and feathered by a mob. No jury, no trial, no judge – and they had planned to castrate him, too. On October 27, 1838, the then governor of Missouri issued an “extermination order”: “The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the State if necessary . . .” Far West History (n.d.) Please note that the order called for exterminating “Mormons” making no distinction between men, women and children, and indeed women and children were subject to the extermination order.
In an event known in LDS history as “the Haun’s Mill Massacre”, precipitated by the extermination order, 30 to 40 LDS families were surprised by some 200 to 250 militia. After the smoke cleared, seventeen LDS people lay dead including a ten-year-old boy. Thirteen LDS members were wounded including a woman and a seven-year-old boy. “A few Missourians returned the next day and took plunder.” LDS FAQ (n.d.) No Missouri militiamen were killed but three were wounded. Just a few years earlier, the LDS folk who died that day had been members of other churches - Congregational or Methodist or Baptist or Presbyterian.
In l976, Governor Bond of Missouri officially rescinded the extermination order and presented apologies for the “unfortunate developments” it caused. Quoting from Governor Bond’s Executive Order: “WHEREAS, Governor Boggs’ order clearly contravened the rights to life, liberty, property and religious freedom as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, as well as the Constitution of the State of Missouri; and . . . Expressing on behalf of all Missourians our deep regret for the injustice and undue suffering rescind Executive Order Number 44 dated October 27, 1838, issued by Governor W. Boggs. . .” Far West History (n.d.) The individuals who harassed, abused, and even murdered Mormons in cold blood were never tried for their crimes.
I read Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.’s Letter from Birmingham Jail and it really touched my heart. There he was, suffering for the Lord in jail, and these religious leaders with highfalutin titles on the outside wrote an open letter (“A Call for Unity”) in which they criticize King’s tactics and basically blame King for the racial turmoil of the time. Though you can tell King is upset and hurt by the attack – made worse because he’s stuck in jail and can’t confront the religious leaders face-to-face – his response is gentle genius. “I wish you had commended the Negro sit-inners and demonstrators of Birmingham for their sublime courage, their willingness to suffer, and their amazing discipline in the midst of great provocation. One day the South will recognize its real heroes.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 881)
King has a few choice words for the Church, too: “If today’s church does not recapture the sacrificial spirit of the early church, it will lose its authenticity, forfeit the loyalty of millions, and be dismissed as an irrelevant social club with no meaning for the twentieth century. Every day I meet young people whose disappointment with the church has turned into outright disgust.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 880)
King signs off with “Yours for the cause of Peace and Brotherhood”.
There’s an eerie commonality between what JFK and MLK endured at the hands of the religious bigots of their day and what Mitt Romney is facing today. I hope and pray that Romney will be able to fend off these undeserved attacks from the religious hypocrites with the same grace, dignity and God-inspired resolve displayed by the other two.
A few popular bumper stickers read: “Honk if you love Jesus” and “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven” or “Jesus is my co-pilot”. Yet, apparently, these same bumper-sticker Christians are the ones waging war against Mitt Romney’s run for the Presidency solely on the basis of his chosen faith in a Church that bears the name of the Savior of the world.
References
ABC News - 20/20 (2007). Philanthropic donations come from your heart, but where do they end up? Ex-money manager says "enough!" to secretive Christian Ministry spending. Glenn Ruppel & John Stossel. United States: ABC News.
Ayers, E. L., Gould, L. L., Oshinsky, D. M., & Soderlund, J. R. (2004). American Passages - a history of the United States - Volume I: to 1877 (2nd ed.). Belmont, California: Thomson/Wadsworth.
Barnet, S., & Bedau, H. (2005). Letter from Birmingham Jail. Current Issues and Enduring Questions - a guide to critical thinking and argument, with readings (7th ed., pp. 867-882). Boston and New York: Bedford/St. Martin's.
Far West History. (n.d.). The Extermination Order and how it was rescinded. Retrieved April 28, 2007, from http://www.jwha.info/mmff/exorder.htm
Hewitt, H. (2007). A Mormon in the White House? 10 things every American should know about Mitt Romney. Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing, Inc.
John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum. (1960, September 12). Address of Senator John F. Kennedy to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://www.jfklibrary.org
Lds Faq. (n.d.). What was the Haun's Mill Massacre? Retrieved April 28-2007, 2004, from Brigham Young University Web Site: http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/view.asp?q=57
Media Matters for America. (2007). Fox News whitewashes evangelical hostility to Romney's faith. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://mediamatters.org/items/printable/200702280002
Will such duplicity never end?
Your "why?" is an insertion not in the text.
In fact, there is an apt reason why the content of Gen. 6:8 precedes the content of Gen. 6:9.
To hear your attempt to paraphrase this account, you would chronologically arrange it this way (I'll highlight a word NOT in the text to emphasize the sequence you're trying to prove): "Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God. Noah THEN found grace in the eyes of the Lord."
So why can't you just leave the text alone minus trying to twist it around. (The very meaning of distortion is to twist?)
Let me quote it AS it's arranged: "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God."
There. Grace was there at the foundation. Such grace aided His justice, his perfection among others, and and his relational walk with God. It certainly was also there for the endurance needed (and reputation hit) as he built the ark.
Now certainly if somebody wants to claim that God in his sovereignty and provision saw that Noah was going to be a "cut above" his neighbors, and He, therefore wove that grace into Noah's life...the text isn't explicit on that, but it might explain the v. 8 reference to the "eyes of the Lord." ("provision"--which means to see the need ahead of time & supply it...is a big thing in Gen...Gen 22, for example...so, likewise, God saw the need to "rescue" humanity from the violence and corruption (Gen 6:11-13) and began telling Noah specifications for the ark in v. 14.
This reminds me, how do they square not being allowed tea, coffee etc with:
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:
Mat 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
Mat 15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
Mat 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
Mat 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
Mat 15:20 These are [the things] which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
First of all, when you take God at his word and apply it, yes that's obedience, but as you're about to see, it's primarily faith. You badly need a review of pre-Abraham's life--his life as Abram:
Why? 'Cause there ya go again. Starting at the end and trying impose that as the foundation that "forced" God's hand into "having" to bless Abraham because, wow, his greatness overwhelmed God.
Let's back up, shall we? Go to Gen. 12 when "Abraham" was Abram.
Who's the initiator in this relationship, Abraham or God? "Now the Lord said..." (Gen. 12:1). God? Good
Who blessed who? Was it Abram's lifestyle up til then that just blessed the socks off of God? (LDS, BTW, may have the only God who actually wears sox since he's a man like you me + a bit of immorta-li-ty...that could be made into a song)...Or possibly, just possibly, was it God who took the initiation in "blessing" Abraham: "I will bless thee..." (Gen 12:2). God again? Good.
Who made Abram's environs environmentally-friendly vs. environmentally hostile? Now was that Abram's great neighborly skills, his character, his moral prowess that did that? Or possibly, just possibly, was it God who said: "I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee..." (Gen. 12:3). God yet again? Good.
Now what is it Abram's great Brigham Young pioneer skills that landed him a land? "And the Lord appeared unto Abram and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land..." (Gen 12:7) God yet again? Good.
As for Abram's character, was he a man of truth at this early juncture of that wowed God? Let's look at the text, shall we? Well, let's just cut to the paraphrase in Gen. 12 'cause we all know how he figured his beautiful wife put his own neck at risk. So what did Abram do? Well, despite the BIG PROMISE about cursing those who curse him (a big security blanket if you ask me), he went underground as a hubby, told his wife to lie about their relationship, and frankly, didn't trust God. [Wow! I guess that kind of blows your theory about what attracted God to him in the early-going, eh?]
Still, God didn't abandon him and say, "Oops! There goes your temple recommend! God said He would be his shield (Gen. 15:1). What aspects of his faith life got him going in the right direction?
(1) He trusted God to be a pilgrim and journey "as the Lord has spoken unto him" (Gen 12:4). "By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went." (Heb. 11:8)
(2) "He believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness" (Gen. 15:6) In other words, He trusted in God, took Him as His Word (faith), and then lived out that faith.
(3) "By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac;" (Heb. 11:17...see LDS look at what a man does and say, "See, works!!!" The Bible looks at what a man does and says, "See, faith!!! Faith in action!!! Faith that takes God at His word and applies to life!" )
Now before point #3 above, he started going off-course again, when his wife convinced him to have sex with the maid. [Now that would make an interesting Hollywood movie, right?]
So up until this point, besides exercising faith in points 1 & 2, what exactly did Abraham do that was so right before all of the commendations he rec'd in Gen. 26:5? I guess the sex-with-the-maid activity kind of blows your theory about the early-going morality of this man, eh? Oh, I'm sure it's possible he took the "high road" on this one...he only had sex with the maid to fulfull God's promise, right? Perhaps. Perhaps not. (The text doesn't say...I'm sure folks like Joseph took all of the extra wives because God told him, too, right?)
Anyway, what was the result of that experience? Did God bless this "end-run tactic?" Well, folks now say that the people groups that resulted from the child born to the maid, are the folks who are now the biggest rivals to Jews and Christians: Muslims. What does the text say? "And the angel of the Lord said unto her...he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him..." (Gen. 16:11-12)...
Now God then had enough of that. He decided it was time for a sit-down, drawn-up covenant time with Abram in Gen. 17. Abram was now 90. He told Abram to "walk before me, and be thou perfect" (Gen. 17:1) So He made a covenant w/Him; ensured that his elderly wife would become pregnant (you're not going to tell me it was because of His wonderful bedroom talent that she got pregnant, are you?)
From that point on, the sinful Abram has been projected to become the patriarch Abraham. The name marks a point of conversion, where God begins to transform the man. He becomes an intercessor in Gen. 18. But was he "perfect" as instructed to be in Gen. 17:1? Hardly!!! For every step forward, there's a step back. Abraham reverts to his "wife is my sister" routine in Gen. 20 (even for an elderly wife) and God has to intervene for this patriarch, this prophet, this healer--but only a healer through praying to the God who heals (Gen. 20:17).
Even Abraham's "obedience" which was crucial to depict a Father who was giving His son as a Sacrifice, like our Father in heaven would do His Son, was billed in Heb. 11:17 as "faith"--trusting God--rather than overemphasizing "obedience" and works.
Now Abraham in the last part of his life was exactly as Gen. 26:5 reads. But that's not what "attracted" grace to His life.
Any other biblical characters that you would like to twist their life story? (Actually, you have excellent resume qualities to be a Hollywood script writer)
Does all this mean that we should eat unhealthily, breath carcinogens, destroy our liver, look trashy, or dress immodestly?
Many of the “rules” that CC mentions are nothing more than wise council. We have the Word of Wisdom, that is true, which forbids alcohol, tobacco, coffee, and caffeinated teas; but what respectable father wouldn’t tell his daughter to dress appropriately? Similarly, we are given various good-sense guidelines that help us to respect and be wise stewards of our bodies. (And remember, the Word of Wisdom was provided back when all of those things it proscribes were widely considered healthy. Coincidence...?)
Still, I know of noone who has been found “unworthy” because they eat twinkies. I’d be in trouble.
Unfortunately, CC has an impression of the Church as some kind of domineering, authoritative monster. It is nothing of the sort. Our ecclesiastical leaders give us wise council that helps us be better people in today’s world, just the same as any good minister or pastor would do. The scriptures do not say “Thou shalt not have more than one pair of earrings, or thy seed shall be cursed for three generations. Wo, wo, wo unto him that tatooeth himself!” But it’s still a good idea in our culture to be modest in appearance. It’s often a reflection of a healthy attitude and self-image and sends a message to others about one’s values. This can in turn keep a person out of all sorts of trouble.
Wanna explain the segment of the Frontline/American Experience PBS recently where they were talking about the typical LDS missionary 2-year experience? They basically said that just about every hour was "scheduled" out for them. [When you said "domineering, authoritative..." that part of that show is exactly what I thought of...]
And that’s the real problem, having enough humility to accept that the Book of Mormon is fictional. The scientific evidence is pretty clear on this. Its no more factual than Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.
Evidence and faith are at odds with each other. They can be used to back up each other, but in a conversion unto Christ, they are at odds.
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
The BOM says it another way:
Either 12:
6 And now, I, Moroni, would speak somewhat concerning these things; I would show unto the world that faith is things which are hoped for and not seen; wherefore, dispute not because ye see not, for ye receive no witness until after the trial of your faith.
If the gospel was easy and provable, the Jews would have recognized their Messiah. Instead they mocked Him, spit upon Him, denied His miracles, and put Him to death.
But, He lives and offers us hope, if we come unto him and believe, nothing doubting.
All the best!
LOL! How so? Are you then condoning the behavior of NN?
It must be a conspiracy, the Mormons and the Mods have joined forces to thwart you at every turn. /sarc
Don’t you mean his flips? His flops have yet to happen. He moved from the left to the right, but no the other way,
Ironically, after so many threads like this one, one would assume that Mitt would be applauded, lauded, heralded, praised and pampered if he were to change his views on religion, but heaven forbid he change his views politically to ones you aspire to hold. Does this tact seem odd to anyone else?
Conservatives should be welcoming converts. It Mitt were not a Mormon, and held the views he does today, he would be heralded by the right, and unstoppable in the election. As it is, I'm not sure if he can get past the fear of his religion that so many people have.
I can name 15. See my post about Masonic POTUS.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1828301/posts?page=749#749
How many times in the passed election have you heard many say...
"I would vote for the so & so if he was Pro Life or what ever was their personal preference"?
In 1857, the Tenth Regiment or Iron Military District was composed of four battalions, nine compa-nies and approximately forty-five platoons. Klingensmith was a private in one of the platoons in CompanyD of the Second Battalion, Cedar City. Philip Klingensmith (1815-1881 or later) was born in westernPennsylvania of German and Scots-Irish heritage. He moved west to Ohio, then Indiana, where he joinedthe Mormon church. Following the arc of most Mormons, he moved to western Illinois, then to UtahTerritory. In the 1850s Klingensmith settled in Cedar City, worked as a blacksmith and served as bishop. Inthe early 1860s Klingensmith was disillusioned and moved to Nevada. He rarely returned to Utah. In1871, he prepared an affidavit about the massacre. He was among nine militiamen named in the 1874murder indictment. In 1875, following a plea bargain he turned state’s evidence and testified in the Leetrial. Later, he reportedly moved to Arizona, then to Sonora, Mexico.The sources disagree as to his death,some holding that he died violently in 1881; others, that he died of natural causes some time later.
Not necessarily, See Alma 32.
We all need a little dung now and then. ;-)
You left out taking pictures of the groom and his blushing 'possession'.
But some can have the best of both worlds, Clinton did.
Wait… that was the McDonalds Jar, not the Cookie Jar.
“Wanna explain the segment of the Frontline/American Experience PBS recently where they were talking about the typical LDS missionary 2-year experience?”
What about it? Missionaries are there for a specific task. They are taught how to use their time wisely. I find it to be an excellent life skill to know how to plan out my day.
Why are you so concerned with the minute details of how we live our lives? Why is it your concern how I choose to schedule my time?
Disagreed with answer. I think it means just what he said, that God is our Father, too and God our Father is Jesus' God, too.
Here are links to the podcast if you missed it.
More like he felt he needed to, to buy the poor scapegoat’s silence. I think its called CYA.
The one they usually show here all the time is the one about reading any good books. As soon as I see it starting I hit previous channel!
Motzeltof
Lecheium
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