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They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious Bigotry, alive and well today
Saundra Duffy

Posted on 05/04/2007 5:46:36 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy

They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious bigotry, alive and well today

May 4, 2007 - by Saundra Duffy-Hawkins

“I wouldn’t vote for a Mormon for dogcatcher, much less President of the United States!” There’s a lot of that kind of hateful rhetoric going around since Mitt Romney decided to throw his hat in the ring – as if Mormons are some kind of hideous evil monsters. The loudest anti-Mormon shouts, sad to say, are coming from America’s so-called “Christian right”. How can Mitt Romney hope to get a fair shake in this spiritually polluted atmosphere?

There was another man running for President who faced the same dilemma – John F. Kennedy – only he was the target of anti-CATHOLIC bigotry. In his 1960 speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, JFK said the following: “. . .I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end - where all men and all churches are treated as equal - where man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice - where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind - and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their words in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.” John F. Kennedy Library & Museum (Speeches, 1960). By the way, if you listen to the audio version of JFK’s speech, you will hear the hurt and frustration in his voice and the unfair treatment surely must have caused many a sleepless night.

Fast forward to 2007 where JFK might as well have been “whistlin’ Dixie”. The hostility toward Mormons today, in my opinion, is even worse than that suffered by JFK. Although it is said that JFK lost about a million votes to religious intolerance, Romney stands to lose even more if the anti-Mormon evangelicals hang together.

According to Media Matters for America - “. . . a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media” - FOX News is not reporting accurately on the level of evangelical hostility to the Romney run. Media Matters for America points out that among evangelical leaders rejecting Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson (National Day of Prayer and Focus on the Family, respectively), the Southern Baptist Convention (collectively), Pat Robertson (Christian Broadcasting Network), and Dr. D. James Kennedy (Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Florida). “Among many conservative evangelicals – who comprise a significant part of the Republican base – Mormonism is considered an un-Christian cult.” Media Matters for America (2007)

While stumping in Florida, a man in the audience stood up during the Q&A portion and said the following to Romney: “You, sir, you’re a pretender. You do not know the Lord. You’re a Mormon.” Media Matters for America (2007). This is the kind of un-American, disrespectful treatment Mitt Romney will apparently have to endure throughout the entire campaign – as if just being a Mormon is reason enough to open the floodgates for free flow of pent-up hatred and vindictiveness.

For the record, the Mormon bashers know full well that the official name of Romney’s church is “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” and the members should rightfully be called “members of the LDS Church” but the words “Mormon” and “Mormonism” have an aura of negativity so they prefer to use the “M” word as if it were dirty.

Less than five minutes cruising around the official LDS website (LDS.org) will show anyone who’s interested that the Church is a Christian organization, with Jesus Christ at the Head. There are no paid clergy – all are volunteers. Humanitarian aid is legendary. Members of the LDS Church believe in strong family values; they are patriotic, they are law-abiding upstanding citizens of their community. Many LDS young men right out of high school go on two-year missions – you know, the guys on bikes – and during their mission they don’t date, read newspapers, go to movies or watch TV; but rather they dedicate two years of their lives to serving others. Many women go on missions as well, and couples, only theirs is 18 months in length but the obligations are basically the same. Most members do not shop or go out to eat on Sundays – reminiscent of the good old days when shops and stores were closed in obedience to the Commandment, “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy”. If they can help it, LDS Church members do not work on Sundays, either, preferring to spend the day at church and with their families. Church members are encouraged to store up a year’s supply of food and water so they will be able to care for their families in the event of an emergency. The LDS Church believes in self-sufficiency and self-reliance but in the event of a financial hardship the Church distributes food and supplies through their welfare (Bishop’s Storehouse) program. Members of the LDS Church do not drink alcohol nor do they use illicit drugs; they do not drink coffee and tea. A Mormon in good standing, therefore, will not be found in a drunken stupor puking her guts out at 3 a.m. anywhere in the world. Furthermore, members of the church are encouraged to dress modestly, be polite and courteous. And members of the LDS Church are faithful tithe payers. Come on, people, what’s not to love?

So what on earth is their beef, the anti-Mormon zealots? Why is there such disdain for the LDS Church and its members? In Hugh Hewitt’s book, “Mormon in the White House?” he states his thesis that the fierce anti-Mormon sentiment among main-stream Christians stems from one or two or all three of the following factors (in order of importance):

1) “It is just too weird.

2) “A Mormon president will supercharge Mormons’ missionary work.

3) “If there is a Mormon in the White House, Salt Lake City will call the shots, at least on the biggest issues.” Hewitt (2007, p. 221-227)

Hugh Hewitt has written an exquisite book about the Romney campaign and overcoming the “Mormon problem.” It’s a good read and I highly recommend it. Of the three problem points listed in the previous paragraph, Hewitt believes – unless some unforeseen blunder destroys his chances – none of the three is insurmountable for Mitt Romney. (Plus, he has the best hair.)

Well, I’m no Hugh Hewitt, not even close; he’s an icon on the conservative radio talk show circuit. Hewitt could talk circles around me (I’ve seen him in action in Sacramento); he’s brilliant; he’s well educated, well read, no doubt a genius, plus he’s kind of cute. I’m basically a “nobody” – an overweight grandma – but after having researched for this paper, I have come to a totally different conclusion as to why there is such in-your-face angst over Romney’s religion of choice: It’s all about money, power and control (in that order). I think they’re (the evangelical religious bigots, that is) scared half to death and are revving up their attacks, not to save souls, but to save their reputations (which if tarnished would lead to financial ruin).

As I said, all one must do is browse around the LDS official web site to see what the LDS Church believes and stands for. Any reasonable person would conclude that Mormons are not evil monsters at all. In fact, they are God fearing, Christ believing, Holy Ghost following people going about doing good. “You will know them by their fruit” and the LDS has plenty of fruit and they are willing to share.

Earlier, I stated that some high-powered ministries have publicly condemned Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson, the Southern Baptist Convention, Pat Robertson, and Dr. D. James Kennedy – just to name a few. There are hoards of others. Sunday after Sunday, preachers, evangelists, reverends and ministers from all Christian denominations pound the pulpit with anti-Mormon rhetoric. I heard the message loud clear when I was a Baptist and when I tiptoed through evangelical/Pentecostal territories. Was I ever miffed when I later learned for myself the Gospel truth about the LDS Church.

Just think about it, please. If Dr. D. James Kennedy, for example, who wrote the book, The Wolves Among Us, were to admit he’d been wrong in labeling the LDS Church a “cult” that leads unwary ignorant people astray (to hell), what would become of his multi-million-dollar ministry? Suffice it to say, there’s big money to be had by sale of books, tapes, CD’s, videos, and other anti-Mormon propaganda, not to mention speaking engagements and world-wide religious crusades. We’re talking trillions, all told. I realize the anti-Mormon aspect of these ministries is but a small portion of the business, but if the truth came out, that they had been using falsehoods about the LDS Church as a cash cow, their entire empires could tumble.

The ABC News program 20/20 aired on March 23, 2007, exposed the lavish lifestyles of some of the top evangelical preachers – million dollar mansions and personal jets. ABC News - 20/20 (2007) (Again, the LDS Church has no paid clergy.)

It’s nothing new. Severe harassment and persecution has been the lot of the LDS Church since it’s inception in 1820 when a 14-year-old boy named Joseph Smith saw visions and communed with heavenly beings. Rather than discuss the spiritual aspects of the LDS Church, however, let’s stick to facts of history. Taken from a college-level early American history textbook, Joseph Smith, upon experiencing the visions and visitations, believed “that God had work for me to do, and that my name should be for good and evil among all nations, kindreds and tongues.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 292). The textbook continues, “They were met with hostility virtually everywhere they went . . . . As the movement gathered momentum, hundreds of people joined the church; entire congregations of churches of other faiths joined . . .” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 293)

During the dark time of American history when slavery was flourishing and when Native Americans were forced from their lands, the pioneers of the LDS Church also suffered at the hands of unscrupulous politicians, governmental leaders, and angry hate-filled mobs. “In the face of relentless persecution, Joseph Smith, the founder of the church, had led his flock to Illinois. There they had established the town of Nauvoo, which by the mid-1840’s had become the largest city in Illinois with over 15,000 people. . . In June 1844, a mob of non-Mormons broke into the jail where Smith was being held and killed both him and his brother. . .The Mormons abandoned Nauvoo in the spring of 1846 as anti-Mormons pounded the town with cannon, destroying the Great Temple. In a well-coordinated migration, 15,000 Mormons moved in stages to the Great Salt Lake.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 334-335) Many walked all the way and many died along the way, including innocent babes.

Joseph Smith at one time was tarred and feathered by a mob. No jury, no trial, no judge – and they had planned to castrate him, too. On October 27, 1838, the then governor of Missouri issued an “extermination order”: “The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the State if necessary . . .” Far West History (n.d.) Please note that the order called for exterminating “Mormons” making no distinction between men, women and children, and indeed women and children were subject to the extermination order.

In an event known in LDS history as “the Haun’s Mill Massacre”, precipitated by the extermination order, 30 to 40 LDS families were surprised by some 200 to 250 militia. After the smoke cleared, seventeen LDS people lay dead including a ten-year-old boy. Thirteen LDS members were wounded including a woman and a seven-year-old boy. “A few Missourians returned the next day and took plunder.” LDS FAQ (n.d.) No Missouri militiamen were killed but three were wounded. Just a few years earlier, the LDS folk who died that day had been members of other churches - Congregational or Methodist or Baptist or Presbyterian.

In l976, Governor Bond of Missouri officially rescinded the extermination order and presented apologies for the “unfortunate developments” it caused. Quoting from Governor Bond’s Executive Order: “WHEREAS, Governor Boggs’ order clearly contravened the rights to life, liberty, property and religious freedom as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, as well as the Constitution of the State of Missouri; and . . . Expressing on behalf of all Missourians our deep regret for the injustice and undue suffering rescind Executive Order Number 44 dated October 27, 1838, issued by Governor W. Boggs. . .” Far West History (n.d.) The individuals who harassed, abused, and even murdered Mormons in cold blood were never tried for their crimes.

I read Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.’s Letter from Birmingham Jail and it really touched my heart. There he was, suffering for the Lord in jail, and these religious leaders with highfalutin titles on the outside wrote an open letter (“A Call for Unity”) in which they criticize King’s tactics and basically blame King for the racial turmoil of the time. Though you can tell King is upset and hurt by the attack – made worse because he’s stuck in jail and can’t confront the religious leaders face-to-face – his response is gentle genius. “I wish you had commended the Negro sit-inners and demonstrators of Birmingham for their sublime courage, their willingness to suffer, and their amazing discipline in the midst of great provocation. One day the South will recognize its real heroes.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 881)

King has a few choice words for the Church, too: “If today’s church does not recapture the sacrificial spirit of the early church, it will lose its authenticity, forfeit the loyalty of millions, and be dismissed as an irrelevant social club with no meaning for the twentieth century. Every day I meet young people whose disappointment with the church has turned into outright disgust.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 880)

King signs off with “Yours for the cause of Peace and Brotherhood”.

There’s an eerie commonality between what JFK and MLK endured at the hands of the religious bigots of their day and what Mitt Romney is facing today. I hope and pray that Romney will be able to fend off these undeserved attacks from the religious hypocrites with the same grace, dignity and God-inspired resolve displayed by the other two.

A few popular bumper stickers read: “Honk if you love Jesus” and “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven” or “Jesus is my co-pilot”. Yet, apparently, these same bumper-sticker Christians are the ones waging war against Mitt Romney’s run for the Presidency solely on the basis of his chosen faith in a Church that bears the name of the Savior of the world.

References

ABC News - 20/20 (2007). Philanthropic donations come from your heart, but where do they end up? Ex-money manager says "enough!" to secretive Christian Ministry spending. Glenn Ruppel & John Stossel. United States: ABC News.

Ayers, E. L., Gould, L. L., Oshinsky, D. M., & Soderlund, J. R. (2004). American Passages - a history of the United States - Volume I: to 1877 (2nd ed.). Belmont, California: Thomson/Wadsworth.

Barnet, S., & Bedau, H. (2005). Letter from Birmingham Jail. Current Issues and Enduring Questions - a guide to critical thinking and argument, with readings (7th ed., pp. 867-882). Boston and New York: Bedford/St. Martin's.

Far West History. (n.d.). The Extermination Order and how it was rescinded. Retrieved April 28, 2007, from http://www.jwha.info/mmff/exorder.htm

Hewitt, H. (2007). A Mormon in the White House? 10 things every American should know about Mitt Romney. Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing, Inc.

John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum. (1960, September 12). Address of Senator John F. Kennedy to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://www.jfklibrary.org

Lds Faq. (n.d.). What was the Haun's Mill Massacre? Retrieved April 28-2007, 2004, from Brigham Young University Web Site: http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/view.asp?q=57

Media Matters for America. (2007). Fox News whitewashes evangelical hostility to Romney's faith. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://mediamatters.org/items/printable/200702280002


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: boggsforgovernor; cuespookymusic; election; lds; mormon; mormons; romney; whitesalamanderblues
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To: Colofornian
But for too many folks around here, they would tell us not to be critical of Clinton's religious beliefs.

Would you criticize his beliefs, or how he lived them out (e.g. his behavior and positions on issues)?

Wave a magic wand over any belief, designate it as sacred and therefore untouchable to criticism, and you can get away with most anything.

I don't recall saying that one cannot criticize another faith. The issue I've been discussing is the lunacy of voting against (or for) someone simply because of their 'faith label'.

Well, I guess we can't be too hard on Clinton for having a religious belief that life begins at birth."

Uh, abortion is a political issue, so it would seem to me quite valid to vote for or against someone based on their position on this issue.

1,261 posted on 05/08/2007 1:13:19 PM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: Degaston; DelphiUser
You said...

In fact I'm technically a High Priest.

I am convert and was converted by the power of the Holy Spirit so there is nothing technically about it!

Unless you are one of those who never had a testimony?

Beware of Pride

In my mind I was questioning not judging?

1,262 posted on 05/08/2007 1:19:03 PM PDT by restornu (Elevate Your Thoughts!)
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To: DelphiUser; colorcountry; MHGinTN; Colofornian; Pan_Yans Wife; FastCoyote; Netizen; MEGoody
Since there are “No pictures” and no refreshments, and not talking in the sealing room, just don’t go, go to the reception, that’s where all the fun is anyway. Nobody is forcing anybody.

DU, read that paragraph again to yourself. Seems a little callous and unfeeling to me. "Just don't go" isn't gonna cut it with loving parents that have looked forward for years to seeing their child married. And you accuse parents of just wanting to be there so they can chat and take pictures? Cold. "Nobody is forcing anybody!" Lovely.

1,263 posted on 05/08/2007 1:27:46 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Fred sez "I'm not interested in being the tallest midget in the room.." RUN FRED RUN!)
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To: MEGoody
Would you criticize his beliefs, or how he lived them out (e.g. his behavior and positions on issues)?

Both.

Listen. This is perhaps the best illustration on record: Hitler did not simply start rounding up Jews early in his political career. He first kicked into gear a smear campaign against Jews. In other words, beliefs about Jews preceded Krystalnacht and all that followed.

Whenever a people group has gotten in our way, we simply defined them out of existence. The heritage of the U.S. is not always worth defending: If Native Americans' land ownership was in the way, we simply labeled them as "savages" and took the land. If lack of currency prevented Southern plantations from employing enough crop laborers, we simply labeled them as "chattel" (Dred vs. Scott labeling) and took their free labor. The Nazis did the same thing w/the Jews: They simply labeled them as non-Aryans, and took their lives and all they owned.

With the pre-born, our country and the world simply defines them out of existence ("unwanted," "choice," "potential life" etc.) because, they, too, get in the way of our careers, relationships, economic goals, etc. Clinton, too, settled in on this definition of "potential life" and made it easier to choose no defense on their behalf.

It's this ability to first reconfigure people according to a less-than-human mindset that serves as a precursor to actual treatment as less-than-human.

I don't recall saying that one cannot criticize another faith. The issue I've been discussing is the lunacy of voting against (or for) someone simply because of their 'faith label'.

OK. I'll take your word for that. (I was actually broadening the focus to "folks around here" & you say that doesn't include you. Fine).

Uh, abortion is a political issue, so it would seem to me quite valid to vote for or against someone based on their position on this issue.

Yes. But you're missing my point: My point is that abortion is a political issue, but it's also a religious issue. It intersects and transcends both dimensions. But just because it's a religious issue, doesn't mean it's off-limits. My point is that Mitt's religious beliefs is both a religious issue AND a political issue, since his religion is tied into his character and values, and we evaluate candidates politically on both counts. So, likewise any candidate's religious beliefs intersects and transcends his political life.

1,264 posted on 05/08/2007 1:38:04 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Degaston

Sorry you lost you testamony Degaston I have found that science and religion are compatable.

First of all there is a Creator for all this order.

That so be ones benchmark, that you work on your theory until it squares with the originator!


1,265 posted on 05/08/2007 1:51:10 PM PDT by restornu (Elevate Your Thoughts!)
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To: MEGoody

The only reason abortion is a political question at all is because of people’s RELIGIOUS beliefs.


1,266 posted on 05/08/2007 1:55:16 PM PDT by colorcountry (It is wrong to criticize the leaders of the church even if the criticism is true ~Dallin Oaks)
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To: colorcountry
"I didn’t say it. Your Prophet John Taylor said it. If God tells a PROPHET that blacks represent Satan on earth, then as a Mormon you had better believe God said it....or wouldn’t that make Taylor - other-than-prophet. Then couldn’t Joseph Smith be other-than-prophet. And what does that make Gordon B. Hinckley?"

Please show me where he said this and in what context, and not just whatever snippet is posted on your ammo sites. I want to see what you refer to if you make such a claim. Blacks were and have been baptized into the church practically from day 1, in 1830. Priesthood privileges were denied them until 1978, but thousands and thousands joined the church prior to that time.

1,267 posted on 05/08/2007 1:55:17 PM PDT by sevenbak (A LIE travels around the world while the TRUTH is still putting on its boots -Winston Churchill)
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To: colorcountry
The only reason abortion is a political question at all is because of people’s RELIGIOUS beliefs.

However, the 'faith label' someone wears doesn't automatically tell you what position they take on abortion. You have to look at their positions on the issues and their behavior to determine that. So again, voting for or against someone solely on their 'faith label' is not smart.

1,268 posted on 05/08/2007 1:59:30 PM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: greyfoxx39
"Since there are “No pictures” and no refreshments, and not talking in the sealing room, just don’t go (as the parents of their first born who happens to be the BRIDE you state, 'Just don't GO?), go to the reception (as a matter of FACT, we did because we PAID FOR IT ALL), that’s where all the fun is anyway (I can assure you, no one in the Bride's family was "having any fun". Were too busy tearing up by this tragedy referred to as a "Beautiful Mormon Wedding.) Nobody is forcing (no you just stole my child away so she could be a part of your CULT!)anybody.
1,269 posted on 05/08/2007 2:01:32 PM PDT by zerosix
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To: zerosix; DelphiUser

Zero, I am so sorry for your pain. I pray that your daughter will come home to you.


1,270 posted on 05/08/2007 2:09:55 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Fred sez "I'm not interested in being the tallest midget in the room.." RUN FRED RUN!)
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To: Colofornian
He first kicked into gear a smear campaign against Jews.

Yep, that's a behavior.

In other words, beliefs about Jews preceded Krystalnacht and all that followed.

I could agree that his beliefs drove his behavior, but clearly, when he was smearing Jews, you could see how he was interpreting the beliefs (although I don't think Nazism even existed before Hitler, so 'interpretation' isn't the right word).

My point is that abortion is a political issue, but it's also a religious issue.

Yes, it can be both. But one's 'faith label' doesn't automatically indicate that individual's position on abortion.

My point is that Mitt's religious beliefs is both a religious issue AND a political issue

I could agree if you are also saying that his behavior, how he lives out his beliefs, his positions on issues are what you consider to be part of his religion and not just the fact that he is a Mormon. In point of fact, it is relatively recently that Mitt indicated he is pro-life. Previously, on this particular issue, his position was in opposition to that typically considered to be the position of the Mormon faith.

When you get right down to it, politically, I have quite a bit in common with most Mormons on social issues, because they are very socially conservative. And that is why I don't support Mitt - because his 'conversion' to social conservatism is recent enough to be suspect.

1,271 posted on 05/08/2007 2:12:01 PM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: colorcountry; greyfoxx39
You were taking part in the practice of Millet. Answer the question greyfoxx SHOULD have asked.

You simply started out your answer with a dodge. To me it appeared that you were hoping most people wouldn't read farther than the first sentence. I am well versed in the many ways Mormonism presents its "truth." Women say prayers all the time in Sacrament meeting. The blessing of the sacrament is a priesthood function though, so no, they don't.

Color, this is really beyond the pail! You accuse me of deception when I clearly stated the facts. And you also rail on me because I can't read minds (what greyfoxx SHOULD have asked)

I didn't' start with a dodge, I told the truth. If you honestly think readers will read 1 sentence and leave the thread without reading the next sentence, then you have absolutely no respect for the majority of FReepers, lurkers, or otherwise. Let me say it again for the 3rd time, so EVERYONE can understand.. Wait, wait for it, it's coming, just past the next sentence...

Are you all still here? Here it comes...

Don't go away, it's right here, after this first line...

Ready, ok, I'm letting it roll! 3rd times a charm...

"Women say prayers all the time in Sacrament meeting. The blessing of the sacrament is a priesthood function though, so no, they don't."

Now, sorry to get all rousted up, but that really gets my goat! It is one of my responsibilities in my calling to get prayers fro Sacrament Meeting each week. I usually alternate between men and women during the same meeting, and it makes no difference what sex says the opening or closing prayers. Likewise, countless other times, Sunday School, Relief society, Ward Council, etc, etc, etc., women say the prayers.

Color, would it surprise you to know that our Relief Society President comes to our Priesthood Executive Committee meetings too, even though she technically isn't supposed to? We value her insight and judgment, and perspective and spiritually that she can and does bring.

Please stop trying to paint me into your already defined discriminatory corner. Thanks!

1,272 posted on 05/08/2007 2:13:19 PM PDT by sevenbak (A LIE travels around the world while the TRUTH is still putting on its boots -Winston Churchill)
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To: greyfoxx39
Seems a little callous and unfeeling to me.

Me too. Other faiths do similar things, and that's too bad.

Of course, this issue has nothing to do with whether or not to vote for someone.

1,273 posted on 05/08/2007 2:14:37 PM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: tantiboh; colorcountry

Thanks.

I’m calming down now, I’ll try to be nicer.


1,274 posted on 05/08/2007 2:16:35 PM PDT by sevenbak (A LIE travels around the world while the TRUTH is still putting on its boots -Winston Churchill)
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To: sevenbak
It seems John Taylor (third LDS prophet) taught that black skin had survived the flood so that Satan would be represented on the earth.

I cannot imagine anyone saying anything so utterly cruel.. It is found in the Journal of Discourses, Volume 22, p. 234.

There is an old version of the book "The Church and the Negro" by John L Lund published in 1967. It's sick and disgusting.

"When people rebel against God's commandments, either during their pre-earth life or while in mortality, they are given a dark skin so that those who are of the chosen seed will not intermarry with them."

"Each Individual was judged according to his faith, talents and individual worthiness. Each was assigned to come to earth in a particular race, time and nation commensurate with their works and use of their free agency in the pre-mortal sphere. In other words, all those who are descendants of Cain (blacks) have been restricted concerning the Priesthood because they were unworthy in the pre-existence."

This choice book was written during the height of the Civil Rights Movement, and during the time that Mitt was reaching the age to become a deacon.

Thousands and thousands of blacks joined the church prior to 1978?? Oh by all means, please let me see your references.

In the meantime perhaps you should peruse this site
http://www.irr.org/mit/Skin%20Color%20&%20LDS%20Church.pdf

1,275 posted on 05/08/2007 2:16:47 PM PDT by colorcountry (It is wrong to criticize the leaders of the church even if the criticism is true ~Dallin Oaks)
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To: MEGoody; DelphiUser; tantiboh; sevenbak; greyfoxx39; MHGinTN

You don’t understand Mormonism very well do you? We have sevenbak and DelphiUser giving each other high fives ‘cuz they finally have caught up to the official Sunday School lesson and are on the same one as the rest of the 12,000,000 members worldwide.

The LDS machine tells you what you must teach on any given Sunday no matter what holiday it might be, what country you live in, or what disaster may have befallen your congregation. Any deviation from the “lesson plan” must be corrected as soon a possilbe.

The LDS Church sets rules (guidelines) on how many earrings you may wear, how short your shorts can be, what you may eat or drink, and the exact language of prayer (ye olde english, of course). There isn’t a great deal of diversion among the LDS, and when there is you hear about it. Harry Reid is a prime example. Do a search and see what Mormons think about how he colors outside the lines.

When you say Mormon, you ARE in fact stating where someones posistion probably lies. If their posistion deviates too much, you have someone like me, a Mormon who is ostracized.


1,276 posted on 05/08/2007 2:26:05 PM PDT by colorcountry (It is wrong to criticize the leaders of the church even if the criticism is true ~Dallin Oaks)
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To: sevenbak; colorcountry; Colofornian; Saundra Duffy
If you can find precedence in the holy bible of Christ of His apostles giving the priesthood to women, or women performing ordinances such as baptism, blessing the sacrament, etc, then we can have a logical discussion about this. When you find it, let me know.

Again, Saundra was complaining about her husband not being called on in a prayer meeting. My question addressed whether she felt the same slight about only men being allowed to pray on some occasions.

There was no statement of precedence in my question. It was about feelings. She felt he was slighted.

I belong to a church that "allows" women to be ministers, elders, deacons, board chairpersons. No one need feel slighted there.

And, I stated that since the LDS is running a massive PR campaign to be considered "mainstream", perhaps they might consider the "sisters" who are considered unworthy for performing some ordinances.

Color, was their not a recent action by the general authorities in SLC removing the Ladies Relief Society from the leadership of women and substituting men?

1,277 posted on 05/08/2007 2:27:07 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Fred sez "I'm not interested in being the tallest midget in the room.." RUN FRED RUN!)
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To: zerosix

I’m so sorry zero, truly I am.


1,278 posted on 05/08/2007 2:28:36 PM PDT by colorcountry (It is wrong to criticize the leaders of the church even if the criticism is true ~Dallin Oaks)
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To: greyfoxx39

I have heard that. I am not familiar enough with the Relief Society to comment.

Except that I am completely surprise to hear sevenbak say the Relief Society (women’s organization) attends priesthood meetings.

This simply would not have been allowed to take place in any Ward that I was part of.


1,279 posted on 05/08/2007 2:39:18 PM PDT by colorcountry (It is wrong to criticize the leaders of the church even if the criticism is true ~Dallin Oaks)
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To: restornu

Paul and the saints tried to maintian the Word until the last apostle was killed off or take from the earth!


It was already being corrupted at the time of John!

1 John 4
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

1 John 2
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


1,280 posted on 05/08/2007 2:43:07 PM PDT by Netizen (If we can't locate/deport illegals, how will we get them to come forward to pay their $3,250 fines?)
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