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Even If Entering Iraq Was a Mistake, Leaving Is Worse (Dennis Prager Rebukes Defeatocrats Alert)
Townhall.com ^ | 05/01/2007 | Dennis Prager

Posted on 04/30/2007 10:36:46 PM PDT by goldstategop

In arriving at their decision that America should withdraw its forces from Iraq, the Democratic Party and the Left around the world regularly make reference to what they regard as America's initial error -- invading Iraq.

Perhaps the Left is correct in its contentions that bringing freedom to a Muslim Arab country at this time in history is impossible and that an Iraq under Saddam Hussein would be better for American and world security.

But even if the war was a major blunder and even if everything the Left charges -- including "Bush lied" -- were true, none of these contentions has any bearing on the question of what should be done now.

The preoccupation of the Left with the alleged wrongness of the war and the alleged deceit of President Bush is another example of passion rather than reason determining a leftist position on a major issue.

A responsible, rational opponent of the war in Iraq and of George W. Bush would say, "I am appalled by the disastrous war in Iraq, appalled by the wasted American lives, appalled by the moral wasteland of Iraq, and I loathe this president. But we are in Iraq. And as much as I loathe supporting anything this president does and as much as I oppose this war, I know what is likely to happen if we leave Iraq. So I cannot in good conscience advocate an American withdrawal or fixing a specific date to do so."

In a recent column I argued that the Left rarely asks "What happens next?" when advocating social policy. I offered numerous examples. Withdrawal from Iraq and announcing that America has "lost the war" are the latest and most egregious.

If we leave Iraq:

It will be a great victory for the most dangerous ideology on earth today. The people running North Korea are presumably as evil as the Islamists. But there is no ideology emanating from North Korea that threatens mankind. We are fighting an ideology, supported by millions of people, that wishes to conquer the world and routinely engages in mass murder of the innocent -- especially the innocent -- to achieve its totalitarian goals.

No one will trust America's commitment for the foreseeable future. Nations and forces aligned with America against freedom-hating enemies will conclude that it is actually quite easy to defeat the United States of America. Just kill relatively few of that country's soldiers, and the U.S.A. will soon abandon you.

The very best Iraqis -- and members of their families -- will be slaughtered like animals.

It will mean the end of the possibility of the rise of a moderate form of Islam for the foreseeable future, perhaps generations. In the Arab/Muslim world, might is revered, and the victorious Islamists will therefore be revered. Moreover, they will have earned the right to claim that they constitute an unstoppable force. If America, the most powerful country in the world, surrenders to them because the Islamists murder fellow Muslims and killed the indescribably tragic but militarily small total of 3,000 soldiers in four years -- one-one-hundredth the losses the U.S. experienced in World War II -- who in the Muslim world will stand up to them?

Iraq will turn into a far more potent terror base than Afghanistan could ever be. One of the major powers of the Arab world, one of the most oil-rich countries in the world, may well be ruled by jihadists.

Moderate Arab regimes will likely be overthrown by a combination of an emboldened Iran and an Islamist Iraq that regards moderate Arabs and Muslims as loathsome as, if not more so than, Americans and Jews. It is almost inconceivable, for example, that the Jordanian monarchy would long survive an American defeat in Iraq.

The American military will suffer a crisis of morale that it will not soon overcome. Though defeated not by the Islamist enemy but by the American Left -- most particularly the Democratic Party and the mainstream news media -- it will be hard to convince many people to join or stay in the U.S. military. Why bother? Even if you do a great job, if you haven't done it all -- whatever 'all' means in a place like Iraq -- you will be told that you lost the war.

And those who have heretofore murdered fellow Muslims will focus their attention on murdering us. The left dismisses the argument that it is far better to fight them in Iraq than in Europe and America. But the dismissal is simply irrational. The people we are fighting, including Osama bin Laden and all the variations on al Qaeda, know that the battle for Iraq is the battle for their future -- that if they win in Iraq, they win all over the Middle East and beyond; that if they lose there, America and the West win.

But none of this matters to the Left because Democrats and others on the Left do not ask what will happen if America leaves Iraq. They are certain that the war was wrong, and that, in addition to handing George W. Bush and the Republicans a defeat, is what they seem to care about.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: defeat; defeatocrats; democraticparty; dennisprager; dhimmicrats; drivebymedia; freedom; globalwaronterror; iraq; islamofascism; liberalism; msm; presidentbush; townhall; victory
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As our good friend Joe Lieberman stated the other day, a defeat for America is not good for Iraq and the world. The Defeatocrats seem to care more about handing the poisoned Iraqi chalice off to President Bush and the Republicans rather than pursuing a strategy to turn things around there and achieve victory. The Defeatocrats are so certain their opponents are wrong about the war that they do not stop to ask what happens if they hand a victory in Iraq to America's deadliest enemies.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

1 posted on 04/30/2007 10:36:50 PM PDT by goldstategop
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To: goldstategop

Excellent piece by Dennis Prager and he’s right. The far left moonbat dems are so consumed with hatred for our president they can see no further into the future than the end of their nose. If they force a premature pullout our country will suffer terribly from it in the not too distant future but they don’t care.


2 posted on 04/30/2007 10:56:39 PM PDT by jazusamo (http://warchronicle.com/TheyAreNotKillers/DefendOurMarines.htm)
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To: jazusamo
Dennis is so right and always is. I just found out tonight my husband is going back to Iraq in July (we thought it was September) and words cannot express the anger I feel towards this Congress. He and I both have served in this war and are proud of what we did, but I never imagined that politics would go this far. First of all, they do not support the troops, because if they did they wouldn't’t say the war is lost or we are murders or we are failing. One hard day in Congress does not equal to one easy day in Iraq. Angry? Angry does not begin to explain how I feel towards these cowards. They only want power and will do it on the backs of people like my husband. I pray there will be a movement to get them out of office and I will be there to do it.
3 posted on 04/30/2007 11:07:07 PM PDT by Bush Revolution (Daily nausea due to the DEMS control of Congress...)
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To: Bush Revolution

I thank you and your husband for your service. I can full well appreciate the anger and I’m sure the frustration you both feel. I feel it too, everyday!

My wife, son and myself have served in the Army but we were all fortunate in that we didn’t have elected officials acting like spoiled brats and holding hollow victory celebrations in our nations capitol while our military fought in a foreign land for freedom.

We all have to work extra hard to change the makeup in Washington this coming election in ‘08, our country’s survival could depend on it.


4 posted on 04/30/2007 11:19:59 PM PDT by jazusamo (http://warchronicle.com/TheyAreNotKillers/DefendOurMarines.htm)
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To: goldstategop
All entirely true, but it seems as if the Bush Derangement Syndrome is some sort of demonic influence...it’s power overwhelms any rationality of anyone smitten by it. Additionally, democrats celebrate a culture of death...the prospect of the death of hundreds of thousands of brown skinned people is of no importance to the racist democrats.
5 posted on 04/30/2007 11:20:21 PM PDT by highlander_UW (I don't know what my future holds, but I know Who holds my future)
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To: jazusamo

Thank you for your kind words of support, they mean more than you’ll ever know. We will win, if they let us.


6 posted on 04/30/2007 11:32:04 PM PDT by Bush Revolution (Daily nausea due to the DEMS control of Congress...)
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To: jazusamo

I thank you for your service and your wonderful family.


7 posted on 04/30/2007 11:33:13 PM PDT by Bush Revolution (Daily nausea due to the DEMS control of Congress...)
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To: goldstategop

Like it or not, Iraq is the center of the WOT. As the President has said over and over, “fight them there, or fight them here”.

The plan is working!


8 posted on 04/30/2007 11:39:54 PM PDT by Coldwater Creek
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To: Bush Revolution
We are a military family as well. There are no words that can be expressed for my disdain for Reid, Peloci, Murtha et al.
9 posted on 04/30/2007 11:42:38 PM PDT by Coldwater Creek
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To: Coldwater Creek
It’s amazing how words either overwhelm you, or you cannot find them when you need them. This Congress is beyond defeatist, they are down right anti-American. I will call them unpatriotic and not apologize for it. It’s so great to come to a forum like this and get to talk great people like you and others on FR.
10 posted on 04/30/2007 11:58:27 PM PDT by Bush Revolution (Daily nausea due to the DEMS control of Congress...)
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To: Bush Revolution
One hard day in Congress does not equal to one easy day in Iraq. Angry? Angry does not begin to explain how I feel towards these cowards. They only want power and will do it on the backs of people like my husband. I pray there will be a movement to get them out of office and I will be there to do it.

I agree with you 100% and I heartily thank you both for your service.

Congress has NO CLUE as to what is really going on in Iraq. They come over here for their two-day photo-op trips just so they can say they've been here and they never really see anything beyond Camp Victory or the IZ.

I wish they'd just get out of the way and let the rest of us get the job done.

Bringing democracy to Iraq is a difficult task, but is by no means impossible. I guess "difficult" to Dems translates to "just give up."

They sicken me.

11 posted on 05/01/2007 12:54:19 AM PDT by Allegra (Hey! Quiet Down Out There!)
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To: jazusamo

Many thanks to your wife, your son and to you for your service.


12 posted on 05/01/2007 12:55:57 AM PDT by Allegra (Hey! Quiet Down Out There!)
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To: Bush Revolution
The reason that the Bush administration isn't engaging critics about "why we are in Iraq" is because there is no "end game" in the middle-east. It's the same situation with death and taxes - there is no real end game since Islam will never cease to seek the extermination of all infidels, Israel will continue to defend itself unto death and oil will always be a necessity.

Bush went into Iraq to lance a large boil named Saddam Hussein who had made death threats against Father Bush and was a very easy take-over target.

If you were seeking to acquire middle-eastern assets in a business sense - then Saddam Hussein was the most likely and most easy target.

Deposing Hussein achieved many simultaneous goals: The threat to Father Bush was eliminated, Iran was checkmated, A hole-in-the-wall hideout for Al-Qaeda and Muslim brotherhood terrorists was closed to a large extent and the large reserves of oil in Iraq were secured for the purposes of western civilization - not to be a cash flow resource for evil dictators and thugs.

Someone needs to speak out loudly and drown out the liberal rants about failure in Iraq. There is no failure in Iraq since there is no end game - no way to create a stable political solution in a place that is the crossroads of religious and political tension for the Middle-east. The liberals whine about failure in Iraq without consequence. The conservatives are afraid to "look bad" and have bought into the liberal lies about "failure in Iraq".

13 posted on 05/01/2007 2:48:10 AM PDT by x_plus_one (As long as we pretend to not be fighting Iran in Iraq, we can't pretend to win the war.)
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To: x_plus_one
We are still in Germany, Japan and Korea; and will be for years to come. The same will happen in Iraq, unless the Democrats win big in 2008.

I love this country, our freedom to travel from state to state without identification, our right to worship as we please, our free education for all. These are just a few of the things we will lose if Islam becomes the LAW of the land.

I fail to understand how women could not support this war. We have the most to lose. No more women drivers, no more mixed swimming parties, no more day of shopping with the girls, no more quality education, no more working women, no more dating... the list is endless.

We think the Amish live a basic life, just wait for Islam to arrive. No more air conditioned tractors for farmers, but methods used in the 600's. Movies, music, books, and television will be censored, as will art in all it’s forms.

I fail to see how this is better for us.

On the other hand, I believe if we dropped zip lock baggies, swiffer dusters, and Tupperware all over the middle east, the women would stop the fighting in order to buy refrigerators to store food, in the baggies and Tupperware, and dusting would be a breeze, so women would have more time to socialize, etc., etc., etc.

Sorry for the early morning rant!

14 posted on 05/01/2007 3:27:12 AM PDT by Yellow Rose of Texas (Thoughts, feelings, and emotions are NOT facts!)
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To: goldstategop

The Defeatocrats will do anything to keep everyone focused narrowly on Iraq.


15 posted on 05/01/2007 3:45:37 AM PDT by familyop
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To: goldstategop

really good read. the most valid point from my perspective (one of a UK ally) is that moderate muslim states in the Middle East are under great threat of insurrection from more hardline members of their own population. think if the US, and its allies, are defeated in iraq then the idea of paying lip-service to the military/economic power of the West will be dissipated. these are countries such as Egypt and Arabia.

also one would find an increasingly isolated israel that would resort to ever more drastic means to defend itself. We have to stay in iraq, and try to find a solution to the mess we have got ourselves into.


16 posted on 05/01/2007 6:30:25 AM PDT by Rikstir
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To: Yellow Rose of Texas
the women would stop the fighting in order to buy refrigerators

One thing no one talks about is how Islamic women are co-conspirators and do nothing to stop the mayhem and anarchy that is Islam.

The continued genetic cousin-to-cousin inbreeding prevalent in Islamic culture results in men and women who are genetically unable to think for themselves.

Muslim women surrender their consciences, their self-control and independence of thought for the security of plural marriage and the supposed laws of Islam. The women of Islam are born and bred to surrender their souls to Allah, not the God of Moses.

17 posted on 05/01/2007 8:11:59 AM PDT by x_plus_one (As long as we pretend to not be fighting Iran in Iraq, we can't pretend to win the war.)
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To: goldstategop
This is what I've been saying for 3+ years now.

The problem is that the left controls the debate. Therefore their terms, and analysis, stand as the conventional wisdom.

Why do we still even call it "The Iraq War"? Why do people think there is still such a thing as "The Iraq War" taking place? The purpose of the 2003 invasion, which is what started "The Iraq War", was to oust the Hussein government. Well? We succeeded. As part of reconstruction and counterinsurgency, we have kept a military presence there since then, but why does that mean "The Iraq War" is still going on? Does our military presence in Germany mean that "World War II" is still taking place? If "The Iraq War" is still taking place - who is it against? Who is our enemy? What are the remaining military objectives? What territory needs to be taken?

At the very least, an honest analysis would recognize that the endeavor we're in now is a different war from the one fought against Hussein, who, for crying out loud, is DEAD. Yet people still call it "The Iraq War". All the other mistakes that Prager talks about follow directly from this misidentification. After all, if we're still engaging in "The Iraq War", and the left can prove that the invasion was wrong, we should leave. This is silly logic but it follows from the silly terminology in widepsread use today.

18 posted on 05/01/2007 8:21:32 AM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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To: goldstategop

Sort of a no-fault screw up which must be continued regardless of cost. Religious wars have been going on that neck of the woods for thousands of years. The latest mission creep to end such wars is fruitless. If they want to kill each other, let’s get our troops out of the way. We don’t need boots on the ground when we can defend serious enemies with air and sea power. If that works with Russia and China it surely can succeed with guys who use improvised devices, car bombs and stolen planes.


19 posted on 05/01/2007 8:41:21 AM PDT by ex-snook ("But above all things, truth beareth away the victory.")
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To: jazusamo
I couldn't agree more, jazusamo.

Last night on History Channel I watched a good piece on the Tet Offensive, including real footage and computer generator reenactments. I learned stuff I never knew about the details - we really handed the enemy his ass in a handbag, and were only slowed down temporarily by not being allowed to damage that ancient city.

It was a heroic effort and an overwhelming victory for the US and our ally, and yet everytime I have heard the press or educators refer to it since I was a kid, this victory was for the other side - we were routed and decimated, with the next and last image of the war impressed upon us was the helicopter on the roof of the US embassy.

This documentary actually dared to mention how the misreporting of Cronkite and the Democrats who were running on a peace ticket mischaracterizing the battle translated this glowing moment in our military history into a defeat, for purely political reasons, and went on to describe - briefly - how the South Vietnamese were over run as soon as we left.

This is exactly what the left is doing now - it's what they always do. I can't help but wonder if the reticence for other countries to join us in Iraq was already influenced by the perception that America's house is too divided, that our congress will abandon our allies in an instant if it helps the careers of roughly 270 politicians.....

BTW, Thank You for your family's and your own service to our country.

20 posted on 05/01/2007 9:48:31 AM PDT by 4woodenboats (Democrats on terrorists - We'll say you can't beat them, then we'll join them!!)
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