Giuliani's Startling Departure on Civil Unions [Giuliani weaseling]

The New York Sun ^ | April 27, 2007 | RYAN SAGER

[Jim Robinson]

In a startling departure from his previously stated position on civil unions, Mayor Giuliani came out to The New York Sun yesterday evening in opposition to the civil union law just passed by the New Hampshire state Senate.

" Mayor Giuliani believes marriage is between one man and one woman. Domestic partnerships are the appropriate way to ensure that people are treated fairly," the Giuliani campaign said in a written response to a question from the Sun. "In this specific case the law states same sex civil unions are the equivalent of marriage and recognizes same sex unions from outside states. This goes too far and Mayor Giuliani does not support it."

The Democratic governor of New Hampshire, John Lynch, has said publicly that he will sign the civil union law.

On a February 2004 edition of Fox News's "The O'Reilly Factor," Mr. Giuliani told Bill O'Reilly, when asked if he supported gay marriage, "I'm in favor of … civil unions."

He also said, "Marriage should be reserved for a man and a woman." Asked by Mr. O'Reilly in the interview how he would respond to gay Americans who said being denied access to the institution of marriage violated their rights, Mr. Giuliani said: "That's why you have civil partnerships. So now you have a civil partnership, domestic partnership, civil union, whatever you want to call it, and that takes care of the imbalance, the discrimination, which we shouldn't have." In 1998, as mayor of New York City, Mr. Giuliani signed into law a domestic partnership bill that a gay rights group, the Empire State Pride Agenda, hailed as setting "a new national benchmark for domestic partner recognition."

[yuta250]

What makes you think Rudy is the only one capable of fighting this WOT? If we wind up with a democrat controlled Congress his hands will be tied on this issue anyway.

[Calpernia]

Ok, I'll risk getting suspended. Feel like I'm being baited here.

veronica said: 'Rudy is not a "gay activist"'

This obituary was prepared by Stuart Timmons, Hay’s official biographer, historian Martin Duberman, Joey Cain of the San Francisco GLBT Pride Parade, and Harry Hay’s niece, Sally Hay. IN Step’s Jamakaya also contributed to the story.

Excerpt:

Henry “Harry” Hay, the founder of the modern American gay movement, died on October 24, 2002 at age 90. He had been diagnosed weeks earlier with lung cancer. Despite his illness, he remained lucid to the end and died peacefully in his sleep at his home in San Francisco.

“Harry Hay’s determined, visionary activism significantly lifted gays out of op-pression,” said Stuart

Timmons, who published a biography of Hay, called “The Trouble with Harry Hay,” in 1990. “All gay people continue to benefit from his fierce affirmation of gays as a people.”

Hay devoted his entire life to progressive politics, and in 1950 founded a state-registered foundation network of support groups for gays known as the Mattachine Society.

(snip, much more at link and thread)

 
 

HARRY HAY and the SPIRIT OF STONEWALL New York, 1994

 

Harry made the following statement to a press conference on June 24, 1994, in the former Stonewall Inn on Sheridan Square in New York, site of the riots that launched the modern gay movement in June 1969. The press conference was called to announce the Spirit of Stonewall (SOS) contingent in the Stonewall 25 march two days later. It was moderated by SOS co-organizer and indefatigable activist Bill Dobbs. Other participants were Christine Martin, sex educator and documentary filmmaker; Glenda Orgasm (aka Glenn Belverio), drag queen activist and filmmaker; Scott O�Hara, editor and publisher of Steam magazine; Val Langmuir of Feminists Against Censorship (London); Julia Smedley, member of Stonewall Now; and Charley Shively of Fag Rag and professor of American Studies at the University of Massachusetts.

This statement was transcribed from a videotape of the press conference. A much shorter version�which omits any mention of NAMBLA or SOS, as well as the entire last half of the statement and the first paragraph�appeared in Radically Gay: Gay Liberation in the Words of Its Founder Harry Hay, ed. Will Roscoe (Boston: Beacon Press, 1996), p. 303. These omissions seem odd in view of the fact that Harry read from a written text. The truncated version also used capital letters for words such as �Brothers and Sisters� and �Queers,� a convention that is not followed here since this complete version is not based on a written text.

Sir Julian Huxley, the great English biologist, said, at the beginning of this century, no negative trait�and, as you know, a negative trait is one that does not reproduce itself�no negative trait ever appears, and reappears, millennia after millennia after millennia, unless it in some way serves the survival of that species. We gays and lesbians may embody, or have discovered, some things that you folks desperately need to know about.

I�m here today as a survivor, as well as the founder of the first ongoing gay organization in the United States, the Mattachine Society, first formed in 1950 in Los Angeles, and now, naturally, a member of SOS, the Spirit of Stonewall, because things we discovered about ourselves and principles we developed in 1950 to �53 are now being trashed by queers who don�t know their own history, all over the place.

We decided from the beginning that, first, because we were still discovering our parameters, we wouldn�t censure each other. If people like NAMBLA self-identify themselves to me as gays and lesbians, I accept them as brothers and sisters with love.

Second, when we decided to rejoin the social or political mainstream again, we would integrate as the group we saw ourselves to be, complete with our own set of values, or we would not integrate at all.

And third, we would no longer permit any heteros�nationally or internationally, individually or collectively�to tell us who we are, what persons our groups should or should not consist of. We assert our right to self-determination, we assert our right to collective self-definition. We queers will decide for ourselves who our members should be.

Members of SOS, notably NAMBLA, have been accused of child molestation. Insofar as child molestation is concerned, the most common form is the sexual coercion by which gay and lesbian children are bedeviled into hetero identities and behaviors. And this is practiced daily by the whole national and international hetero community�parents, family, teachers, preachers, doctors, lawyers, and Indian chiefs, not to overlook U.S. senators and pooh-bah media.

This outrageous coercion of gay kids into hetero identities and behaviors against their wills is not only sexually abusive, it is spiritually devastating rape, because the child unbeknowingly is being led into developing self-loathing at the same time. For this gigantic criminal trespass against not only today�s children but against all of us also�all of us�since childhood, from the queers my age of 82 down through all the generations of queers assembled here in New York, to the gay kids still being bedeviled by sexual coercion against their wills, we the international gay and lesbian people here this week should unite to sue the whole guilty heterosexual community lock, stock, and barrel to within an inch of their lives, and for every nickel they�ve got, as a beginning of compensation. And while we�re at it, we should request our first-class citizenship as well. This could be the class-action suit of the century.

Copyright © NAMBLA, 2003. All rights reserved.
 

Much more at link and thread

note : "SPIRIT OF THE REBELLION" mid-letter

S.V.A. Honorary Members (STONEWALL Veterans' Association)
(all 14 are supportive, considered and voted upon)

Liz J. Abzug, Rebuild Our Town Downtown, Co-Chair
(www.Abzug.com)
N.Y.C. Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg
(www.MikeBloomberg.com)
N.Y.C. Councilmember James E. (Jed) Davis, In Memorium
(www.Council.nyc.ny.us)
Congressmember Geraldine A. Ferraro
(www.search.Britannica.com)
Borough President C. Virginia Fields
(www.NewYorkers4Fields.com)
America's Mayor Rudy W. Giuliani
(www.GiulianiPartners.com)
B. Thomas Golisano, Paychex, President
(www.Paychex.com)
N.Y.C. Public Advocate Betsy F. Gotbaum
(www.PubAdvocate.nyc.gov)
Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.
(www.Riverkeeper.org)
Councilmember Margarita L. Lopez
(www.MargaritaLopez.com)
Martha Reeves, Motown Singer & Detroit Councilwoman
(www.STONEWALLvets.org/songsofStonewall-7.htm)
N.Y.S. Attorney General Eliot L. Spitzer
(www.Spitzer2006.com)
Steven L. Wesler, R.D.P. Group, President
(www.RDPgroup.com)
N.Y.S. Assemblymember Keith L.Wright
(www.WrightForTheFuture.com)

 
 

HARRY HAY and the SPIRIT OF STONEWALL New York, 1994

 

Harry made the following statement to a press conference on June 24, 1994, in the former Stonewall Inn on Sheridan Square in New York, site of the riots that launched the modern gay movement in June 1969. The press conference was called to announce the Spirit of Stonewall (SOS) contingent in the Stonewall 25 march two days later. It was moderated by SOS co-organizer and indefatigable activist Bill Dobbs. Other participants were Christine Martin, sex educator and documentary filmmaker; Glenda Orgasm (aka Glenn Belverio), drag queen activist and filmmaker; Scott O�Hara, editor and publisher of Steam magazine; Val Langmuir of Feminists Against Censorship (London); Julia Smedley, member of Stonewall Now; and Charley Shively of Fag Rag and professor of American Studies at the University of Massachusetts.

This statement was transcribed from a videotape of the press conference. A much shorter version�which omits any mention of NAMBLA or SOS, as well as the entire last half of the statement and the first paragraph�appeared in Radically Gay: Gay Liberation in the Words of Its Founder Harry Hay, ed. Will Roscoe (Boston: Beacon Press, 1996), p. 303. These omissions seem odd in view of the fact that Harry read from a written text. The truncated version also used capital letters for words such as �Brothers and Sisters� and �Queers,� a convention that is not followed here since this complete version is not based on a written text.

Sir Julian Huxley, the great English biologist, said, at the beginning of this century, no negative trait�and, as you know, a negative trait is one that does not reproduce itself�no negative trait ever appears, and reappears, millennia after millennia after millennia, unless it in some way serves the survival of that species. We gays and lesbians may embody, or have discovered, some things that you folks desperately need to know about.

I�m here today as a survivor, as well as the founder of the first ongoing gay organization in the United States, the Mattachine Society, first formed in 1950 in Los Angeles, and now, naturally, a member of SOS, the Spirit of Stonewall, because things we discovered about ourselves and principles we developed in 1950 to �53 are now being trashed by queers who don�t know their own history, all over the place.

We decided from the beginning that, first, because we were still discovering our parameters, we wouldn�t censure each other. If people like NAMBLA self-identify themselves to me as gays and lesbians, I accept them as brothers and sisters with love.

Second, when we decided to rejoin the social or political mainstream again, we would integrate as the group we saw ourselves to be, complete with our own set of values, or we would not integrate at all.

And third, we would no longer permit any heteros�nationally or internationally, individually or collectively�to tell us who we are, what persons our groups should or should not consist of. We assert our right to self-determination, we assert our right to collective self-definition. We queers will decide for ourselves who our members should be.

Members of SOS, notably NAMBLA, have been accused of child molestation. Insofar as child molestation is concerned, the most common form is the sexual coercion by which gay and lesbian children are bedeviled into hetero identities and behaviors. And this is practiced daily by the whole national and international hetero community�parents, family, teachers, preachers, doctors, lawyers, and Indian chiefs, not to overlook U.S. senators and pooh-bah media.

This outrageous coercion of gay kids into hetero identities and behaviors against their wills is not only sexually abusive, it is spiritually devastating rape, because the child unbeknowingly is being led into developing self-loathing at the same time. For this gigantic criminal trespass against not only today�s children but against all of us also�all of us�since childhood, from the queers my age of 82 down through all the generations of queers assembled here in New York, to the gay kids still being bedeviled by sexual coercion against their wills, we the international gay and lesbian people here this week should unite to sue the whole guilty heterosexual community lock, stock, and barrel to within an inch of their lives, and for every nickel they�ve got, as a beginning of compensation. And while we�re at it, we should request our first-class citizenship as well. This could be the class-action suit of the century.

Copyright © NAMBLA, 2003. All rights reserved.
 

[veronica]

That’s the thing. Anyone can talk a good game. If you are a results-oriented person, you want to see someone in the WH who has made things happen. Someone with a track record of wrestling with the issues and getting results.

[Leatherneck_MT]

Didn’t say you were bud :)

But the war on terror is just as important on that border as it is overseas. We cannot fight them over there and ignore the fact that they are infiltrating our country over here.

[veronica]

Of course, those articles also lied by omission.

Newsmax is a lying lefting rag now?? I guess I missed THAT memo. :)

[Liz]

So, just how many times can you crossdress before you're an official transvestive anyway? And how many times can you cavort about, dancing close in the arms of another man, before people start waiting for you to come bursting out of the closet?

W-e-l-l, this is just a guess, mind you.....but an educated one, of course......BUT I do think Rooty is trying to tell us something. ROTFL.

[jacknhoo]

Fred Thompson:

Voted NO on adding sexual orientation to definition of hate crimes. (Jun 2002)
Voted NO on loosening restrictions on cell phone wiretapping. (Oct 2001)
Voted NO on expanding hate crimes to include sexual orientation. (Jun 2000)
Voted NO on setting aside 10% of highway funds for minorities & women. (Mar 1998)
Voted NO on ending special funding for minority & women-owned business. (Oct 1997)
Voted YES on prohibiting same-sex marriage. (Sep 1996)
Voted NO on prohibiting job discrimination by sexual orientation. (Sep 1996)
Voted YES on Amendment to prohibit flag burning. (Dec 1995)
Voted NO on banning affirmative action hiring with federal funds. (Jul 1995)

http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/Fred_Thompson.htm

[CharlesWayneCT]

I wish every freeper would recognise secondary sources, and find primary sources, when making arguments.

But veronica did quote an article from newsmax about Fred. The article WAS trying to make Fred look more liberal it seems, and the ARTICLE misrepresented his position, as another poster noted.

But people use newsmax here every day to bash other people’s candidates, usually the more “liberal” ones like Romney.

I wouldn’t mind if people stopped using newsmax against our own candidates, because I DO think they misrepresent the facts to suit their own political opinions, like the author did here with Fred Thompson.

There is much to fault veronica for, but I think not for quoting newsmax as a source.

I really hate getting in the middle of these arguments.

[dirtboy]

Newsmax is a lying lefting rag now??

I dunno about leftist, but the columnist did lie by omission.

[wagglebee]

It sure looks like homosexual activism (or at least pandering) to me.

[Skywarner]

“What makes you think Rudy is the only one capable of fighting this WOT?”

I never said that that I think he’s the only one capable of fighting the WOT. That’s an assumption that just isn’t true.

[Sloth]

The war against Islamofascism is the ONLY priority in my decision making process at the moment regarding the upcoming elections.

There will be no United States worth protecting from foreign enemies if we surrender to the Constitution's domestic ones.

[CharlesWayneCT]

When you use other liars (NewsMax???) to back you up

Thanks for saying that. You should try coming and saying that in a Compean/Ramos thread, where they use Newsmax and WorldNetDaily at lot. Newsmax is well-liked around here because often their bias is toward the conservative position.

In fact, while veronica used it to help Rudy, the article in question was likely written to hurt Fred because they want a more conservative candidate.

[CharlesWayneCT]

the quote she gave was from the newsmax article, which did NOT quote the original transcripts. The author of the newsmax piece lifted it out of context.

[veronica]

Newsmax used material from a FoxNews interview, and I have in the past linked to that article. Anyone is free to go read it (the address was posted on this thread) and judge for themselves what Fred’s position is.

[Jim Robinson]

No excuse. I’ve warned these people about trashing conservatives while pushing their favorite liberal. If they want to do that, they need to take it to DU.

[TommyDale]

"So, just how many times can you crossdress before you're an official transvestive anyway?"

"And how many times can you cavort about, dancing close in the arms of another man, before people start waiting for you to come bursting out of the closet?"

It is my understanding that Rudy rehearsed one appearance for a full MONTH prior to appearing. The guys just enjoys the women's clothes far too much to just imply he has a "sense of humor". I think it implies a sickness. The fact that he is seen in various poses in different women's clothing prove he has done this on multiple occasion, thus enforcing that thought.

[jacknhoo]

Rudy is a liberal, not a conservative. If one supports Rudy, they supoort liberalism and atheistic socialism.

[Skywarner]

“There will be no United States worth protecting from foreign enemies if we surrender to the Constitution’s domestic ones.”

Agreed.

Yet, it would be all a moot issue if the Islamofascists and their allies (and they do have allies even here at home...) destroy a major US population center or introduce bio weapons potentially killing millions. Even a “small” attack would cripple our nation’s economy for some time at a minimum.

Despite what the defeatist Harry Reid might think, that day is rapidly approaching, and we need to have the internal fortitude to prosecute this World War to a successful - and complete - conclusion.

[veronica]

Former Sen. Fred Thompson on 'FOX News Sunday'....

I certainly did not lie, but I can't stop people from accusing me of it. I've been called worse in the cyber world.