Posted on 04/20/2007 11:58:21 PM PDT by the scotsman
A survivor of the Virginia Tech massacre has been describing how a colleague died to protect others. Although badly injured, graduate student Waleed Shalaan distracted gunman Cho Seung-Hui to save another person from his bullets.
Waleed saved another student's life.The surviving student, who wishes to remain anonymous, told of Waleed's heroics through an email to his supervisor.
He describes how he was left uninjured after Cho's initial round of shots.
Meanwhile, Waleed had been wounded but was still alive.
However, when Cho later returned to the classroom to inspect for signs of life among his victims, the surviving student struggled to remain calm.
He believes he would have been shot dead were it not for Waleed's "protective movement" that distracted the gunman.
Cho turned and shot Waleed for a second time, killing him, before leaving the classroom.
Randy Dymond, a civil engineering professor, has said the student asked to him to tell the tale "so that the family of Waleed understands the sacrifice."
Shaalan's mother broke down when she heard Mr Dymond's account.
"He was trying to save someone else," she said repeatedly.
Dymond said Shaalan's body was taken to a Blacksburg mosque so classmates, teachers and friends could say goodbye before he was sent to Egypt for burial.'
Why didn’t any of the people? What’s your point?
Why?
KATRINA SYNDROME
Defines otherwise able bodied people who have lost
the ability to defend themselves as well as their
instinct to survive due to induced dependence upon a
government, parent or other social system.
“Waleed could have done nothing, could have danced a jig, could have been totally dead — and it would not have made a bit of difference for that uninjured student. The shooter was never after him in the first place.”
C’mon ... isn’t it pretty easy to see that a gesture interpreted as “danger - stay down” that resulted in “A” staying still would have saved his life ? ....
HE thinks so.
You said — “I don’t understand why you are so convinced that all muslims believe exactly the same thing. There are different interpretations of the Koran just as there are different interpretations of the Bible. There are many good muslims that are apalled at what the extremists are doing to their religion.”
It really doesn’t matter what all Muslims believe. The Muslims populace does not form the “foundation” and the “framework” of the Islamic faith. It’s the foundational religioius documents that do. That would be the Koran and the Hadith. These documents are what forms “Islam” and not what some guy says that may or may not believe it all. So, you look to the foundational documents and you see what they say and mean. That’s how you know what the Islamic religion is all about.
All you can say about a Muslim that doesn’t believe (just for an example) that the Prophet Mohammed is the last Prophet and is the greatest — is that they are basically not a Muslim, in spite of the fact that they may say they are. They may pretend to be, but they aren’t. So what you have is a fundamental document and the *basis* for being a Muslim. This is what *describes* what Islam is all about. Therefore it’s not the “Muslim on the street” that describes it for me, it’s the foundational documents that describe it for me.
IN FACT — there is *very good reason* for disbelieving what the “Muslim on the street” says — because in Islam there is the principle of Takkiya, which means that you “lie through your teeth” to the infidel in order to protect the Islamic faith. You say whatever you have to, in order to shield yourself or the religion from danger or attack or whatever like that.
Therefore, because of “Takkiya” if you press the issue on certain things and if the Muslim feels either threatened (in his faith and belief) he can lie through his teeth to you and not allow you to know certain things. That’s basically what CAIR is all about. CAIR is *institutionalized Takkiya* here in the United States, directed at the American public for the purpose of “lying through their teeth” and straight to your face, until such a time as they can “kill the infidel”.
Also, in combination with Takkiya is the principle of “abrogation” in the Koran. That means that the newer sections of the Koran and what the Prophet Mohammed said are correct, while the older parts are “abrogated” — of no effect any longer. Thus, when people (and some Muslims) talk about “peace” and how Islam is a “religion of peace” — they are practicing Takkiya on you — because they very well know about the abrogated verses of the Koran. The peaceful verses (in the beginning parts) have been abrogated by the “kill the infidel” parts later on. And these “go to war” and “kill, kill, kill” and “take by the sword” are in effect now. Anything “peaceful” has been abrogated, by *their own principles*.
So, when you hear a Muslim telling you about the peace-loving nature of Islam, you can be sure they know about the principle of abrogation and that they are practicing Takkiya upon you. And you know what — so many Americans are such *fools* that they actually believe them. What a bunch of morons!
.
And then you said— “If you are a Christian, how do you feel about being judged on all other Christian interpretations of the Bible. Should I assume you support gay marriage? I read a Christian interpretation of the Bible, from a major Christian religion that says that Jesus never condemed homosexuality. I must assume you believe the same.”
I will be judged on the basis of what the Bible says — but — I won’t be judged on the basis of what the “Christian on the street” says. In that fact, I draw great comfort.
AND — I also encourage *everyone* to judge all on the basis of God’s word — and never allow anyone else (Christian or no Christian) go against what God’s Word says, itself. Of course, that takes *knowing* God’s word in the first place to be able to do that, but, that’s what studying is all about, isn’t it.
So, since we establish the principle that we judge on the basis of the foundational documents of the faith (either Islam or Christianity) — let’s take a “gander” over to the Bible and see what *it* says about that other question of yours....
I’m going to quote a significant section so that it will be seen totally in context and will be *unmistakeable* in being understood.
Romans 1:16-32
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;
32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
.
Well, I hope that doesn’t *need* some “commentary” by me and that it’s plain enough by itself...
Regards,
Star Traveler
You said — “C’mon ... isn’t it pretty easy to see that a gesture interpreted as “danger - stay down” that resulted in “A” staying still would have saved his life ? ....”
Oh, I definitely do see that the uninjured student *playing dead* and not moving saved his life —for sure. The shooter thought he was dead already! It’s a good thing that he played dead. *That* is what saved his life.
It’s just too bad that Waleed did nothing to save the other student’s life and only contributed to his own death...
Regards,
Star Traveler
You said — “KATRINA SYNDROME
Defines otherwise able bodied people who have lost the ability to defend themselves as well as their instinct to survive due to induced dependence upon a government, parent or other social system.”
Hmmm..., well what do you call the syndrom for people who have “lost their mind” and can no longer distinguish truth from fiction (like this “MSM” story above) and they “buy into lies”?
It would seem that some people just can’t see the lie, in this story, even when it’s staring them right in the face...
Regards,
Star Traveler
“It’s just too bad that Waleed did nothing to save the other student’s life and only contributed to his own death...”
LOL you’ve reached the point where you accept everything that “A” says about the situation, yet the conclusion you reach is not the same as the person involved who actually experienced it -— so THEY must be wrong.
Please take it up with Mr. Brightside in HIS post #145.
I was the one correcting his statement that the MSM ignored her religion.
Lay off the snark unless you know what you;re talking about.
Hmm, thin facts, late arriving, clouded motives and perhaps a bit of projection going on.
Could be Walled was trying to run for his life and got killed for his efforts, I don’t doubt that there are muslims who sacrifice their lives to save others.
It is Iraqi Muslim police officers who are getting themselves shot and beheaded in Iraq after all.
Sorry, posted to the wrong person.
You said to Star Traveler...
“you accept everything that “A” says about the situation,”
Except...”A” never actually said anything about the situation...
Randy Dymond, a Civil Engineerng professor claims “A” said that Saalan etc etc.....
Dymond told Salaan’s Mom and the MSM that an anonymous student told him that etc....
We only have what Dymond imagined happened, or heard the story and put his own romantic spin on it, or actually relayed what was told to him by a fanciful and anxious student...
We have yet to hear from “A”, himself....
He should have stayed still. The Gunman could have shot him and kept shooting the others.
You said — “LOL you’ve reached the point where you accept everything that “A” says about the situation, yet the conclusion you reach is not the same as the person involved who actually experienced it -— so THEY must be wrong.”
He was laying right next to Waleed, so if he was looking, the killer would have seen him, so the uninjured student would be dead right now. Since he is not dead, he was not seen looking and thus, he could not have seen the killer in what he was doing — only heard and felt what was going on.
You see..., the uninjured student gives two things — (1) “facts” of what happened, and (2) interpretations of what happened.
We can assume that the “facts” of what happened were as he said. But, “interpretations” are always open to discussion. So, if the killer came into the room, that would be a fact. And if he came in twice, that would be a fact. If the student says he was “playing dead”, we can take it as a fact. If he says he was laying right next to Walid, that’s a fact. And if the killer shot Waleed again, that would be a fact.
But, once we know that the uninjured student was right next to Waleed (again a “fact” that we accept), then we also know that the uninjured student cannot be seen “looking” at either the killer or at Waleed, or *he’s dead*. And since he’s not dead, we know he “played being dead” pretty good — enough to *fool* the killer. And you don’t “fool the killer” by being seen looking around.
Therefore, the uninjured student can only be “interpreting” what he cannot see (again, he can’t be seen by the killer to be alive, since he’s right next to Waleed).
So, if he’s interpreting sounds and movement, and *perhaps* a peek under his arm (if his hand was over his head, for example) — that means that he can’t *know* what Waleed did. He can only guess according to hearing some clothing move, maybe even hearing a gasp out of his mouth, maybe hearing “don’t” (representing begging or whatever), and feeling the body shudder and go still when shot. It’s all interpretation, since he *cannot be seen* looking — or else — he’s dead.
What we *do know* is that the uninjured student *played dead* pretty good — and *that* saved his life.
Good for that student saving his own life...
Regards,
Star Traveler
“Except...”A” never actually said anything about the situation...”
... and you know this how ?
“A” never said it to YOU, or the media, but that dosen’t presume that “A” never said it unless your presumption is that Dymond is not telling the truth.
Is that your idea ?
Yep.
You said — “He should have stayed still.”
Yeah, Waleed should have stayed still. He might possibly be alive today if he had stayed still and not moved.
In fact, I think one can prove that by noting that the “uninjured student” who played dead — did stay still and that is what saved his life. The article noted that the killer came back *two times* looking for anyone who was still alive to kill them.
So, when the uninjured student played dead, convincingly, the killer did not shoot him. But, when Waleed moved, the killer saw that and shot him dead on the spot.
And remember — the uninjured student *and* Waleed were right next to each other. So, just a mere inches apart and one is pretending to be dead (and convinces the gunman) and doesn’t get shot, while Waleed — just a few inches over, moves and gets finished off.
Too bad for Waleed. Of course, it could be that he was in pain and was involuntarily twitching, too. So, it might be that he was moving because he couldn’t keep still. That would really be too bad...
Regards,
Star Traveler
NEBUCHADNEZZAR SYNDROME:
People who have “lost their mind” and can no longer
distinguish truth from fiction.
******************************
Some just want to argue. Your logic is sound and your
explanations are clear ... but they stubbonly refuse
to accept the obvious. Perhaps the answers lie in The
Romans Road.
So faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of Christ.
But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed
they have; “THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO
ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS
OF THE WORLD.” (Romans 10:17 & 18)
For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and
worshiped and served the creature rather than the
Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. (Romans 1:25)
You said — “NEBUCHADNEZZAR SYNDROME:
People who have “lost their mind” and can no longer
distinguish truth from fiction.”
Oh boy! I had a good laugh on that one. That was good... LOL
“He was laying right next to Waleed, so if he was looking, the killer would have seen him,...”
I stopped reading your post here as you have no idea of the logistics of the situation ...
How close is “right next to “ by “A”’s standards ?
What angle were they at ?
Was “A” facing away from the shooter ?
Did “A” have only the eye closest to the ground open at the time of the gesture ?
Was “A” wearing glasses/sunglasses ?
Did the gesture take place before the shooter was close enough to them both to see “A”’s eyes ?
Was “A”’s arm over his head ?
You know nothing of this.
BTW - is it established that “A” is male ?
Agreed. Moderate Muslims are out there and many of them are extraordinary heros. Including this guy. Including the guy quoted in my tagline.
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