Posted on 04/10/2007 6:38:39 AM PDT by Valin
bump for later
Sousa’s thesis is pure unadulterated baboonery. It’s not the culture, it’s the sociology, aka civilization.
I really dislike Rap Videos and I would like to see them disappear. But, if they did disappear, it would not diminish Islam's hatred for our society.
The Muslims do complain about our pornographic and violent movies and TV shows. But even here in the heart of darkness, I don’t have them in my house, and I don’t go see them. So far away in the pure Dar al-Islam, what are they complaining about? They don’t have to watch.
“So what? You don’t have to watch.” is an inadequate response here, where the rest of us do have to live in the cultural position, alongside people whose moral senses have been dulled - but the Muslims really should be able to keep it out.
Mrs VS
“cultural position” should be “cultural pollution”
Mrs VS
LOL! Yes, it's essentially a call to try to trick the barbarians into liking us.
No, he is spot on. Sociology is the study of how people interact with one another. A societies behavior is governed by culture and law. Society, culture and "civilization" cannot be divorced.
These fears the muslims have for their religion are well founded. American popular culture is depraved. It is depraved because secular humanists and sinners want it that way. It will continue to be depraved until the populus stops aiding and abetting it by consuming it.
The Muslims have been at war with every culture since its dawn. They have to spread their venom by the sword. Don't let the moderate Muslim fool you into believing that it's the American culture that's causing the Muslim blow-back. That's a handy excuse that just won't fly...not with me.
Let me also go on record and say that American popular culture is pure trash. There is not one redeeming value in it.
I think it's not as simple as that, and IMO the citation of the Singaporean example is apt --- Singapore is an example of a modern "sociological system" (to adopt your terminology) which is highly authoritarian and often described as "Puritian" in the public sphere without universally extending state control over the personal life.
This is an important distinction, and it's one the the government is explicitly aware of --- for example if both members of a marriage are Muslim, under Singapore's legal code they are assumed to have adopted Shira law as their "personal legal system", and are thus exempt from the body of "family law" applied to other citizens.
OK, so we should export "Little House on the Prairie" rather than "Baywatch." Got it.
D'Souza completely misses the point that our culture is what enabled modern civilization to develop. The whole idea of 'modernization without westernization' only means that the nation that adopts it will be forever living off of the leftovers from those that actually create things.
I doubt very seriously that "Baywatch" contributed anything to the advancement of western civilization.
I probably should have put up two posts - one sarcastic and one serious.
The “Little House” vs. “Baywatch” statement was a sarcastic commentary about what many foreigners see as ‘American culture’ and a response to D’Souza’s ‘What should we do about it?’
The second paragraph was intended as a more serious response, that the personal freedom that we enjoy as an integral part of our culture allows the degeneration we have seen but is also required for modern civilization to exist.
The author is mistaken to assume that we will jump through our own as$ h&^%# to accommodate them when THEY continue as always with their culture which systematically oppresses women and non-Muslims. Also, they initiate violence toward non-Muslims even in host countries which have been open and free enough to welcome them. They are trying in may places to expand territorially at the expense of their neighbors and disregard the territorial sovereignty of others in order to spread THEIR culture (such as it is). The US is NOT in a war for territory and will pack up and go home once the terrorist threat based in Iraq (where even though we are present, we try always to respect the indigenous culture) and elsewhere is put down. The terrorist fundamentalists will NEVER leave unless 'removed'. This author is not getting it!
D'Sousa is right on.
Radical Muslims see us as uncivilized, decadent, and immoral. We're morally unclean in their view. Bin Laden has said as much in his "Letter to America".
He even points to president Clinton's behavior in office as proof!
Now combine those feelings with the idea that Americans set foot in the Muslim holy land (Saudi Arabia) and you have 9/11.
Non-Muslims can be put to death simply for traveling through Mecca.
Interestingly, if people ‘over there’ did not WATCH Baywatch, then the stations would not show it. There MUST, therefore, be a market for it. hmmmmm.
I think its important to note that the reason many of us abhor current “western” culture isn’t necessarily because of what is portrayed (although it is often disgusting and offensive), but what constant exposure to those subjects does to influence ones actions.
For example, seeing women objectified in film over time may lead to treating women as objects. As disgusting as seeing it on film is, the possible translation to reality is the bigger worry.
The thing is, I’m not sure what possible change in actions could result in many muslim countries. Could they treat their women much worse, for example?
His point seems to be that America’s corrupt pop culture is not representative of all of American society. He is right on that point. Most Americans are solid citizens, have good morals and the majority are people of faith. The Islamic world is not made up of 1.2 billion terrorists. Only a fraction are terrorists, but that is what seems to be driving the Muslim world today. Our pop culture does seems to be pushing our culture off a cliff. There is a huge difference between depravity and terrorist, so I only make this point to indicate that perception is not always an accurate representation of the whole.
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