Comparision of Arab and Jewish Nobel Prize Winners

jewishmag.com ^

[shrinkermd]

I don't know but if one worries about the White, Black educational gap one should first read THIS in respect how to artificially close the gap by changing the cutting score on tests. Then read THIS on a sophisticated discussion of IQ racial and sexual differences.

None of what this author (an academic who uses an AKA for political reasons)or Hernstein and Murray's Bell Curve are new or iconoclastic findings. They have been discussed in obscure academic journals for decades. Political correctness and the Marxists in Academe'have prohibited their wide, public dissemination.

Someone posted on FR Murray's recent article on "Jewish Exceptionalism" in Commentary.

[Bon mots]

If you Google “IQ and The Wealth of Nations” you will find the book by Professor Lynn and the Finnish guy - who’s name I’ve forgotten, but who is the father of the Finnish Prime Minister.

There is quite a lot of material on this subject at places like Le Griffe du Lion, etc.

[woofer]

Gee, all this talk about IQ’s and here I just finished working with a guy named MENSA, grandson of the founder of the Mensa Society. His IQ was not any more impressive than mine (135).

[docbnj]

People who go for more education are generally higher in IQ in the first place. You can’t raise IQ effectively just by educating people!

Anyway, even if you are not convinced that there is such a thing as native intelligence, then let’s consider culture. The Moslem culture must be pretty terrible to come up with results like these. I think that is the case.

I have met some rather intelligent Moslems. One, in particular, was also a very likeable and tolerant person. Some of the others were paranoid creeps. People differ.

[docbnj]

135 is very high. You can look up what percentile that is, and you will be impressed.

Remember, you are working with a bell curve. As you get toward the tails of the curve, the numbers of individuals are small.

[Verginius Rufus]

One thing the Arabs did not invent was "Arabic numerals" (which they got from India).

It isn't right to equate Arabs with Muslims. Not only are there some Arab Christians, but the vast majority of Muslims in the world are not Arab.

There are more Muslims in the countries of the Indian subcontinent (about 425 million) than there are in the Arab world. The country with the largest number of Muslims is Indonesia (about 213 million).

If you take the core Arab area (the countries of the Arabian peninsula, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, and Libya, and include the Arabs of Israel, the West Bank and Gaza, the total is about 198 million. If you add the Maghreb (Tunisia, Algeria, and Morocco), that's another 75 million, and the "Arab" parts of the population of the Sudan and Mauretania, that's about 17 million more, making a grand total of about 290 million.

The World Almanac's list of speakers of major languages divides Arabic into its dialects--if you take the 13 most-widely-spoken forms, the total number of speakers of Arabic is 181 million.

That's still a lot more than the number of Jews in the world, but a far cry from 1.4 billion.

[brotherWesUpNorth]

congrats Judah - Now just think if they added in the accomplishments of Ephraim / the northern tribes.

[Alter Kaker]

It has been known for at least 100 years the average IQ below the Sudan is 70 or less.

Sounds like pseudoscience to me. There are virtually no schools anywhere in Sudan outside Khartoum -- I don't know, but I suspect that might have something to do with recorded IQ scores.

I hope I'm wrong, Shrinker, but your posts strike me as yet another hopeless attempt to legitimize racial hierarchies.

[Alter Kaker]

You can’t raise IQ effectively just by educating people!

That's just not true. In fact, you can raise your IQ dramatically just by taking a lot of IQ tests. IQ is a notoriously poor measure of intelligence, not that the idea of innate intelligence has much validity to begin with.

The Moslem culture must be pretty terrible to come up with results like these.

I don't think that there is a "Muslim culture" -- how can you possibly compare places as disparate as Nigeria and Indonesia? I do think that most countries in the Islamic world have insufficient education systems, insufficiently diversified economies, and I'd agree with you that some Islamic cultures place too little emphasis on secular education. There are also places like Pakistan, where a relatively small elite places an enormous value on education, but where formalized education of any kind is essentially unavailable to a majority of the population.

[BroJoeK]

I notice you had some trouble above spelling the word “comparision.” Is that a sign of your own rapidly failing IQ?

As a certified doctor of IQ, might I suggest you eat a smarter pill? You remember those I’m sure, from the old joke? They taste really bad, but they make you a lot smarter real quick.

I have to eat them myself regularly — otherwise, I’d forget which way is up! (it’s a joke!)

[Joe 6-pack]

"Additionally...Jews who have been awarded Nobel prizes live in the former Soviet Union and the developed nations of the West, whereas the vast majority of Arabs and Muslims live in the developing world."

Now there's a real chicken and the egg conundrum for ya'....

[ozzymandus]

A lot of the Jewish prize winners were German citizens or German-born. Does that figure into your calculations?

[Alter Kaker]

Now there's a real chicken and the egg conundrum for ya'....

Not really. Countries are rich or poor for a variety of reasons, having to do with culture, geography, access to resources, and even random dumb luck (in the sense that a great man can make or destroy a country).

I don't think that South Korea was desperately poor 50 years ago because Koreans were innately stupid, any more than South Korea is wealthy these days because Koreans are innately intelligent.

[mjolnir]

Sounds like pseudoscience to me. There are virtually no schools (in Sub-Saharan Africa)... I don't know, but I suspect that might have something to do with recorded IQ scores.

I agree, Alter Kaker. Having dealt with many of below 70 IQ, as well as with people of "sub-Sudanese" ancestry as well as people native to it, experience simply doesn't bear out such claims; pretty much anyone who's taught children or young adults this side of Michael Levin will agree. How to weigh the impact of culture and other "nurture" externals is basically a guessing game. In "Jewish Genius", the markers Murray chooses are far too blunt to achieve the subtlety of perception that is needed for his conclusion: "In the last two decades, it has also been established that obvious environmental factors such as high income, books in the house, and parental reading to children are not as potent as one might expect."

I should go without saying that reading to children is not the same as teaching children to read. In point of fact, Chinese and Japanese (and Jewish)parents prize and therefore inculcate intellectual virtues in their children which are accessible to all of us and make a far larger difference than "a few points". In fact, given the gap in devotion to intellectual virtue, as someone who has taught children of virtually all races, I'm surprised the gaps in performance aren't larger.

[Beckwith]

You’re arguing against yourself — most amazing circular logic I've ever seen.

[dead]

In your face, Islam!

[Alter Kaker]

You’re arguing against yourself — most amazing circular logic I've ever seen.

How's that?

[Joe 6-pack]

"Not really. Countries are rich or poor for a variety of reasons, having to do with culture, geography, access to resources, and even random dumb luck (in the sense that a great man can make or destroy a country).

I don't think that South Korea was desperately poor 50 years ago because Koreans were innately stupid, any more than South Korea is wealthy these days because Koreans are innately intelligent."

Countries are rich or poor based primarily, if not exclusively on the relative amount of freedom their peoples enjoy. The two Koreas are a perfect case in point, as were East and West Germany.

Many nations in Africa are riddled with valuable natural resources yet can not feed their own people. My own state of Louisiana was far and away the wealthiest state of the antebellum south. It's endemic corruption and cultivation of dependency in the post-reconstruction era has left it amongst the poorest states in the entire US.

[Alter Kaker]

Countries are rich or poor based primarily, if not exclusively on the relative amount of freedom their peoples enjoy.

I think that's part of the story, but it's not anything close to the whole story. Just for starters, look at Equatorial Guinea and India. India has been a multi-party parliamentary democracy for 60 years, whereas Equatorial Guinea is one of the least free, most repressive countries on earth.

Yet Equatorial Guinea is the world's wealthiest country, measured in terms of per capita GNP, and India is, despite recent growth, still very poor. In this situation, the difference is natural resources, but there can be any number of things at play.

[beeber]