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Report: Tuskegee Airmen lost 25 bombers
AP - Yahoo ^ | April 1, 2007

Posted on 04/01/2007 11:40:19 AM PDT by EveningStar

At least 25 bombers being escorted by the Tuskegee Airmen over Europe during World War II were shot down by enemy aircraft, according to a new Air Force report.

The report contradicts the legend that the famed black aviators never lost a plane to fire from enemy aircraft...

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: aviation; blackhistory; history; p38; p40; p47; p51; tuskegeeairmen; ww2; wwii
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To: Condor 63
It is true because like most of us on many occasions he (Boyington) was an assh***.

Well, not to argue degree ... but Pappy got a top ranking in that category.

41 posted on 04/01/2007 12:39:02 PM PDT by BluH2o
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To: EveningStar
I'm sure whatever inaccuracies were out there... were dumped by our substandard, undemanding, politically-correct media.
42 posted on 04/01/2007 12:40:23 PM PDT by johnny7 ("Issue in Doubt." -Col. David Monroe Shoup, USMC 1943)
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To: Condor 63

Boyingtons AVG claims are no longer officially credited to his overall totals. I noticed this when checking the overall 'rankings' of our air aces.


43 posted on 04/01/2007 12:46:48 PM PDT by Tallguy
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To: longtermmemmory

"These men were complicit in a "symbolism over substance" pr stunt. The lie is the stunt.

They need to come clean fast, say mea culpa and now publish the record better. How many books are now wrong?

How many black history month propaganda films are now wrong but are NEVER going to be corrected in order to protect image over substance? Answer NONE."


Here is another link to a rewriting of history, it is about an award winning documentary that was revealed to be simply made up.

"It took a months-long campaign by veterans of the genuine liberator units to get PBS to disavow the 1992 documentary,"Liberators: Fighting on Two Fronts in World War II," which falsely credited the 761st Tank and another African-American battalion (183rd Combat Engineers) with liberating Buchenwald and Dachau, the two largest camps freed by Americans."

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b125b384e8f.htm


44 posted on 04/01/2007 1:07:50 PM PDT by ansel12 ((America, love it ,or at least give up your home citizenship before accepting ours too.))
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To: Tallguy
They may never have been officially credited. About the closest I could ever come to determining yea or nay was that the Black Sheep apparently thought they were and Pappy certainly thought they should have been. The book Once They Were Eagles makes this pretty certain since it contains a multitude of interviews with the Black Sheep. They were conscious enough of the kills to be keeping a running account and making sure Pappy went airborne whenever possible to increase his chances. If I remember right, that played into the flight that ended up getting him shot down which was one ordinarily he wouldn't have made.

Our Birmingham Black Sheep alum Harry Johnson apparently thought the AVG kills were still being credited the last time I read an interview with him, which has been a while back.

There was certainly a big stink about it and probably Pappy didn't help his case out too much considering the mutual aggravation factor he had going with Marine honchos. LOL

45 posted on 04/01/2007 1:16:22 PM PDT by Condor 63
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To: EveningStar

It would have been impossible for any fighter squadron not to have lost at least one bomber to enemy fire. The men are still heroes.


46 posted on 04/01/2007 1:41:57 PM PDT by driftless2
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To: Sam Hill

"They were used very early in the war, starting with the North Africa campaign."

They were sent to Africa, but never used there. They only continued training. In fact their first combat mission was not until the Sicilian invasion of July 1943 to attack the small island of Pantelleria in the Mediterranean Sea between Sicily and Tunisia. This is at least a year into the ETO operations, which I would not call the very early part of the war, but rather the latter half.


47 posted on 04/01/2007 1:42:38 PM PDT by Kirkwood
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To: EveningStar

April fools?

Seriously, AAA isn't particularly affected by the escort.


48 posted on 04/01/2007 1:45:51 PM PDT by BJClinton (Gore/Nader 2008!)
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To: Kirkwood

"The questions is, what took out those 20 bombers?"

Perhaps AAA or jets.


49 posted on 04/01/2007 1:47:04 PM PDT by Levante
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To: EveningStar

You did nothing wrong - whatsoever - in posting this article. I always doubted the "no losses" claim and am glad to know someone sat down and actully did the research. Why some people are getting so upset about this is beyond me. The truth shouldn't be so threatening to people. No one is harmed by the truth in this case.


50 posted on 04/01/2007 1:47:15 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: Kirkwood

Well, it's confusing. A lot of sites say they "entered combat" or were "ready for combat" starting in North Africa.

I am aware that the first mission where they actually engaged in combat was during the Sicilian invasion.

And I know that they got additional training in Morocco. But I believe they were considered a combat outfit at the time.


51 posted on 04/01/2007 1:52:37 PM PDT by Sam Hill
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To: vladimir998

The no losses thing has been questioned for quite some time. And the truth about it has been known since at least last December:

Ex-Pilot Confirms Bomber Loss - washingtonpost.com
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/16/AR2006121600849.html

And probably long before that.


52 posted on 04/01/2007 1:55:20 PM PDT by Sam Hill
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To: Kirkwood
The questions is, what took out those 20 bombers?

most of the bombers were lost to flack,still the fact is that they flew 200+ missions with no losses to enemy fighters(according to a blurb on the military channel)
AP's motto should be we never turn down a chance to denigrate our military so I would be skeptical of this article

53 posted on 04/01/2007 2:00:12 PM PDT by Charlespg (Peace= When we trod the ruins of Mecca and Medina under our infidel boots.)
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To: ansel12

Here's another snip from a review about Brokaws book about Johnnie Holmes that is not mentioned in the article you linked:

A case in point is the shocking story of Sgt Johnnie Holmes, who "encountered real, bitter racial hatred and segregation for the first time" when he arrived for training in Kentucky. Brokaw records that "Holmes is persuaded that Fort Knox dentists experimented on the black soldiers. He remembers being strapped in a dentist chair and getting his teeth drilled with no novocaine" (p. 195).
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ICK/is_2_14/ai_68507718


54 posted on 04/01/2007 2:01:55 PM PDT by Vn_survivor_67-68
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To: Kirkwood

"In fact their first combat mission was not until the Sicilian invasion of July 1943 to attack the small island of Pantelleria in the Mediterranean Sea between Sicily and Tunisia. This is at least a year into the ETO operations, which I would not call the very early part of the war, but rather the latter half."

Not really. The invasion of Sicily was one of the first ETO operations, if not the first.


55 posted on 04/01/2007 2:02:38 PM PDT by Sam Hill
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To: Sam Hill

"But I believe they were considered a combat outfit at the time."

I agree they were considered ready for combat, but they weren't used once they were deployed, which was my point of it being a tragic waste of highly trained and competent pilots.


56 posted on 04/01/2007 2:03:56 PM PDT by Kirkwood
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To: Charlespg

"according to a blurb on the military channel"

Well, I wouldn't consider that an authoritative source. That is at best a secondary and more likely a tertiary source of information and probably not to be trusted. I would even question the accuracy of official records in the fog of war.


57 posted on 04/01/2007 2:09:01 PM PDT by Kirkwood
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To: Kirkwood

flak, i'd say.


58 posted on 04/01/2007 2:10:10 PM PDT by ichabod1 ("Liberals read Karl Marx. Conservatives UNDERSTAND Karl Marx." Ronald Reagan)
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To: Kirkwood

Gotcha. And I agree.


59 posted on 04/01/2007 2:11:33 PM PDT by Sam Hill
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To: Sam Hill

"The invasion of Sicily was one of the first ETO operations, if not the first."

ETO was formed up and began deploying troops in the middle of 1942. Sicily was an invasion force, but US Army European operations were well underway for quite some time before the first invasion began.


60 posted on 04/01/2007 2:13:51 PM PDT by Kirkwood
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