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No deal, Rudy
Catholic Online ^ | 3/6/2007

Posted on 03/06/2007 5:39:37 PM PST by markomalley

They are saying that the next GOP presidential candidate might very well be a pro-abortion Republican who promises not to push that issue and is strong on other issues.

They hope that pro-lifers will “be reasonable,” not let the perfect be the enemy of the good, and go along quietly.

We won’t.

Republicans and Democrats in 1980 took radically different approaches to the right to life. Republicans wrote into their party platform that all abortions should be outlawed. Democrats wrote into their party platform that not only should abortion be legal, but families should be forced to pay for others’ abortions through their taxes.

Democratic leaders have been utterly committed to their party platform. But there’s a movement afoot for Republicans to shrug off this plank of the party platform altogether, and give a pro-abortion politician the reins of the party and, they hope, the White House.

In particular, Rudy Giuliani has become a favorite for president of conservative talk-show hosts, and pro-war and tough-on-crime Republicans. He’s also way ahead in polls like Newsweek’s, though it’s anyone guess what such polls mean so early in the process.

The way the pro-Rudy argument goes is this: For the past three decades, social conservatives have had the luxury of insisting on purity in the Republican Party. Their clout was such that any candidate had to undergo a “forced conversion” before running for national office. But 9/11 changed that. Now, extremist Islam and the war on terror are such all-consuming issues, and we can’t be so caught up with abortion anymore.

Since Giuliani is committed to the war on terror and is a great crisis manager with a track record rooting out the gangs of New York, we shouldn’t demand that he be pro-life, but instead we should be willing to make a deal.

Rudy’s deal: He’ll promise not to push the pro-abortion agenda, and he’ll nominate judges in the mold of Samuel Alito and John Roberts. Pro-lifers in the Republican Party in return would support him, but keep insisting that the party stay pro-life, and fight our fiercest pro-life battles at the state level, where they belong.

That seems like a good deal, at first blush. We’re well aware that “forced conversions” to the pro-life fold are far from the ideal. Think of the candidacy of Bob Dole in 1996. And it is true that the fight against judicial tyranny is an immense front in the battle for the right to life. Transforming the courts is a prerequisite to victory elsewhere.

But what dooms the deal from the start is the fact that it totally misunderstands what pro-lifers care about in the first place.

When they ask us to “be reasonable” and go along with a pro-abortion leader, they assume that there is something unreasonable about the pro-life position to start with.

We’re sorry, but we don’t see what is so unreasonable about the right to life. We’ve seen ultrasounds, we’ve named our babies in the womb, we’ve seen women destroyed by abortion. What looks supremely unreasonable to us is that we should trust a leader who not doesn’t only reject the right to life but even supports partial-birth abortion, which is more infanticide than abortion.

We also see the downside of Rudy’s deal. If pro-lifers went along, we’d soon find out that a pro-abortion Republican president would no longer preside over a pro-life party. The power a president exerts over his party’s character is nearly absolute. The party is changed in his image. He picks those who run it and, both directly and indirectly, those who enter it.

Thus, the Republicans in the 1980s became Reaganites. The Democrats in the 1990s took on the pragmatic Clintonite mold. Bush’s GOP is no different, as Ross Douthat points out in “It’s His Party” in the March Atlantic Monthly.

A Republican Party led by a pro-abortion politician would become a pro-abortion party. Parents know that, when we make significant exceptions to significant rules, those exceptions themselves become iron-clad rules to our children. It’s the same in a political party. A Republican Party led by Rudy Giuliani would be a party of contempt for the pro-life position, which is to say, contempt for the fundamental right on which all others depend.

Would a pro-abortion president give us a pro-life Supreme Court justice? Maybe he would in his first term. But we’ve seen in the Democratic Party how quickly and completely contempt for the right to life corrupts. Even if a President Giuliani did the right thing for a short time, it’s likely the party that accepted him would do the wrong thing for a long time.

Would his commitment to the war on terror be worth it? The United States has built the first abortion businesses in both Afghanistan and Iraq, ever. Shamefully, our taxes paid to build and operate a Baghdad abortion clinic that is said to get most of its customers because of the pervasive rape problem in that male-dominated society. And that happened under a pro-life president. What would a pro-abortion president do?

The bottom line: Republicans have made inroads into the Catholic vote for years because of the pro-life issue. If they put a pro-abortion politician up for president, the gains they’ve built for decades will vanish overnight.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: abestgopcandidate; abortion; catholicforum; cino; guiliani; homosexualagenda; liberalgop; marksanford; messageboardpost; moralabsolutes; norudy; prolife; rino; rudy; tomtancredo
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To: TAdams8591
As a Catholic, I find the twice divorced, thrice married, pro-homosexual union, pro-choice Catholic Guiliani despicable.

I support the candidacy of the once married, never divorced, father of five, grandfather of ten, MORMON Romney.

I find Mormon doctrine about man becoming God and God having been a man billions of years ago on a different planet despicable. I prefer an honest heathen or an honest Catholic in name only.

461 posted on 03/07/2007 8:58:52 AM PST by DungeonMaster (Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”)
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To: DungeonMaster
I find a cheating Catholic husband (Guiliani) who further hurts traditonal heterosexual marriage by divorcing twice, marrying three times and supporting homosexual unions, as well as promoting the barbaric practice of abortion, a complete an utter abomination to Christianity.

By contrast, Mitt has been faithfully married to one woman, has five children, ten granchildren, and is running on a pro-life, pro-heterosexual marriage plank - my kind of man and my kind of Christian.

462 posted on 03/07/2007 9:14:06 AM PST by TAdams8591 (Guiliani is a Democrat in Republican drag.)
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To: TAdams8591
I find a cheating Catholic husband (Guiliani) who further hurts traditonal heterosexual marriage by divorcing twice, marrying three times and supporting homosexual unions, as well as promoting the barbaric practice of abortion, a complete an utter abomination to Christianity. By contrast, Mitt has been faithfully married to one woman, has five children, ten granchildren, and is running on a pro-life, pro-heterosexual marriage plank - my kind of man and my kind of Christian.

I find people who call themselves Christians when they are cult members more offensive than people that call themselves Catholics and act the part. Lots and lots of Catholics get divorces and vote Democrat. Most RCs I know are Democrats. So there is no surpise to me when a Republican RC is a liberal.

463 posted on 03/07/2007 10:02:28 AM PST by DungeonMaster (Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”)
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To: DungeonMaster

Being a catholic in nmae only is not honest. Besides, most cinos vote straight democrat ... makes me wonder about you, noob.


464 posted on 03/07/2007 10:05:52 AM PST by MHGinTN (If you've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
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To: markomalley
The president can not make or repeal any law affecting abortion.

Ronald Reagan didn't and no one else will either.

It's up to Congress.

It amazes me how many people don't know how the system works.
465 posted on 03/07/2007 10:06:07 AM PST by Beckwith (The dhimmicrats and liberal media have chosen sides and they've sided with the Jihadists.)
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To: BunnySlippers

If the only thing Rudy has going for him is that he felt the pain of New Yorkers after 9/11, he hasn't got much going for him. I hope that, if you want Rudy for Prez, you can find other things to talk about than 9/11.


466 posted on 03/07/2007 10:06:13 AM PST by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: MHGinTN

noob back to you.


467 posted on 03/07/2007 10:07:44 AM PST by DungeonMaster (Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”)
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To: DungeonMaster

Are we having fun yet?


468 posted on 03/07/2007 10:10:39 AM PST by MHGinTN (If you've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
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To: MHGinTN

Are we?


469 posted on 03/07/2007 10:11:27 AM PST by DungeonMaster (Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”)
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To: markomalley
We also see the downside of Rudy’s deal. If pro-lifers went along, we’d soon find out that a pro-abortion Republican president would no longer preside over a pro-life party. The power a president exerts over his party’s character is nearly absolute. The party is changed in his image. He picks those who run it and, both directly and indirectly, those who enter it.

Exactly. Which is why I personally will NEVER vote for a pro-abortion Republican for president, no matter how bad his opponent is.

With a radical pro-abort like Rudy as the GOP standard bearer, pro-lifers are effectively left out in the cold with nowhere to look but perhaps to a 3rd party.
470 posted on 03/07/2007 10:16:37 AM PST by Antoninus (I don't vote for liberals, regardless of party.)
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To: gotribe
Many, many, many catholics vote Dem across the ballot. Rudy doesn't need you, and he's going to destroy hitlery.

Keep dreaming. The Catholic vote has been steadily coming toward the Republicans over the past 30 years. A candidate like Rudy will effectively send it all back to the Democrats.
471 posted on 03/07/2007 10:18:29 AM PST by Antoninus (I don't vote for liberals, regardless of party.)
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To: DungeonMaster

Oh yes! At times it is amusing around here.


472 posted on 03/07/2007 10:20:48 AM PST by MHGinTN (If you've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
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To: areafiftyone
First of all I'm a Roman Catholic and I don't know any Catholics who reads this tripe.

Uh, you're grotesque and enthusiastic support of a pro-abortion, pro-homosexual candidate when *there are several other viable pro-life, pro-family Republican candidates available in the GOP primary* belies your claim to be a Catholic. Do you know what the term latae sententiae means?

You can't be both Catholic and pro-abortion. Sorry, pal.
473 posted on 03/07/2007 10:23:56 AM PST by Antoninus (I don't vote for liberals, regardless of party.)
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To: voltaires_zit
There are lots of single issue voters who hold "this" or "that" to be inviolable and refuse to ally with anyone who doesn't support their point of view in its entirety.

I only agree with Rudy on one issue. As I'm not a single issue voter, I can't vote for him. Oh, well.
474 posted on 03/07/2007 10:28:47 AM PST by Antoninus (I don't vote for liberals, regardless of party.)
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To: GSlob
take care of the beam in your own eye before attempting to play an ophtalmologist.

Because I'm a sinner, murder should be legal?

I'm not following your irrationality.

475 posted on 03/07/2007 10:49:55 AM PST by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: Aquinasfan

Well, in my reference frame abortion is not a murder. The frame is purely secular, rational and self-consistent.


476 posted on 03/07/2007 10:58:46 AM PST by GSlob
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To: gotribe
Rudy doesn't need you, and he's going to destroy hitlery.

Okay. Then you'll have no objection to us voting for a third-party candidate. After all, you don't need our votes anyway. Constitution Party, here I come!

477 posted on 03/07/2007 11:04:15 AM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: Beckwith
It's up to Congress.

Uh...no.

It's actually up to SCOTUS.

The president can not make or repeal any law affecting abortion.

True. But what CAN a president do?

Reagan, while he wasn't able to get the appropriate laws passed, DID take many of the above executive actions.

It amazes me how many people don't know how the system works.

Me too.

478 posted on 03/07/2007 11:05:23 AM PST by markomalley (Extra ecclesiam nulla salus CINO-RINO GRAZIE NO)
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To: markomalley

excellent refutation to those that say the President has zip impact on abortion. please continue to post these facts.


479 posted on 03/07/2007 11:06:40 AM PST by xsmommy
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To: Corin Stormhands

Post of the day! ... LOL


480 posted on 03/07/2007 11:09:02 AM PST by DKNY ("You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it." --Margaret Thatcher)
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