Posted on 03/04/2007 9:45:43 AM PST by A_perfect_lady
My friends, my sister, and I were hanging out at a gay bar in West Hollywood last night (yes, really) because you can buy $1 draft beers during happy hour, and my little sister can flirt with men who won't actually try to take her home. She just moved out to Hollywood to live with me and, being only 29, she still likes to party. I'm the over-protective type, so I go with her and glower at anyone who gets too close.
Because it was a gay bar, all the men I met there were... oh, what's the word... gay, yes, that's it. I fell into a very interesting discussion with a 60 year old man who looked like a cross between Leonard Cohen, a biker, and a hippie. Long gray hair, black cowboy hat, wire rimmed glasses, big belt buckle. He has been "partners" with another fellow for two years now. His partner favors sequins and rhinestones, and whenever he meets a woman, he mulls over what movie star she resembles. It's very flattering. After a few drinks, I apparently look like Rachel Weiss. (I mean, after YOU have a few drinks, not me.)
Anyway. I was talking to this fellow, Michael, and I discovered the following: He has been an electrical engineer for 25 years. He was in a band. He was in the Air Force for at least six years, did a tour in Vietnam, one in Japan, and one in Oklahoma. He got out because they were going to station him next in Turkey and, frankly, the muslim world makes him a little uneasy.
He had one daughter before he came out of the closet. He recalls giving her a small allowance and then teaching her to budget with it. He emphasized education and sounds like he was a pretty tough dad. He thinks kids today are growing apathetic, lazy, spoiled, and he is worrying about what the overall declining work ethic is going to do to this country.
He thinks if the politicians would get out of the way and let the military do its job, we could handle the Islamofascists "immediately." September 11 didn't make him cry, it made him mad. He's still fiery-eyed about it.
And taxes today! Don't even get him started about how his hard-earned money is going to support an ever-larger stream of illegal aliens who come to this country to take advantage and give little back. He loves his country, his Harley... and some guy named Tony who wears sequins. I am not making this up.
He considers himself rather apolitical because he doesn't pay attention to prevaling political trends enough to know that he is unconsciously fairly conservative.
Now here is my fear: He and many others like him will be repelled back into knee-jerk DNC voting patterns because his perception of conservative thought will be influenced by things like Ann Coulter's blaring comment at CPAC suggesting that John Edwards is... oh, what's the word she used... I can't remember right now but it was one of those words that suggests that she, the uberconservative, feels that gay-baiting epithets are respectable political discourse.
Now, before you say anything, I know what some Freepers will think.
1) If my new buddies are gay, they are simply not the stuff of which conservatism is made. "Here we go," you might sigh. "Another one trying to convince us that gays are just like you and me but for one little, tiny difference." No, I'm not saying that. But conservatism... or at least, a willingness to vote conservative, can come in many guises, and Christianity or any other such moral code is only one. Many of us came to conservatism through Ayn Rand's writings, or through an admiration for our Founding Fathers. Some of us simply grew up and realized that liberal approaches are enabling disasters that encourage humanity to sink ever further into dependence, envy, and mediocrity.
If your conservatism stems from a philosophical or religious conviction that homosexuality flouts, please consider that the salvation of souls is a separate matter from voting for politicians who take our security seriously. Please do not shun or belittle those who might potentially come to agree with you on so many points, simply because they differ from you on this one. We do not want gays, feminists, et al, to be one issue voters. Let us not be one-issue discriminators. I know we would all like for others to live conservatively. But let us not reject the opportunity to encourage them to begin by voting conservatively.
2) The other protest that I have seen already, on different threads, is as follows: Ann is a private citizen, she can say what she wants, only a fool would think that Mitt Romney or Duncan Hunter feels the same way. But I submit to you that this is what I call "insider thinking." Of course, WE know whose stance is what... we are familiar with the nuances of conservative thought. We read up on politics every single day. But compare how an outsider such as Michael (and glittery Tony) views the conservative world: much like we view the muslim world. When a mad mullah or bomb-laden extremist foams at the mouth about decimating Israel and America, we look to the rest of the muslim world as if to say politely "And do you agree?" When all we hear are crickets chirping (and a few bombs going off prematurely because some Palestinian's cell phone got pinged) we notice. And we think, ah. I see. You agree.
If we do not agree, we do indeed have the responsibility to say so, as conservatives.
In fact, at the end of the evening an incident occured that captures this second point nicely. A very intoxicated young man with a penchant for chanting hiphop lyrics in people's faces, and flicking his lighter perilously close to women's noses, tried to put his arm around me. I had already developed a dislike for this one, and gave him a slight elbow while I stepped away. Outraged, he pursued me and I gave him a good shove. My sister told the bouncer and the other guys gathered round and chimed in their outrage. Throw that guy out! The bouncer threw the guy out.
For the next ten minutes, gay men were coming up to me anxiously: Are you alright? He's gone now, don't worry. He was a jerk. I don't like him either. I hope you aren't upset. We aren't all like that. Are you sure you're alright?
They instinctively came to reassure me, knowing that as an outsider, I could not distinguish between them unless they made known their stances. And Tony said, "I may be gay, but I'm still a man. Woman are supposed to be protected, you know?"
I am not on a crusade to get other Freepers to love gays and hang out in West Hollywood with me. There isn't enough parking there as is. And I do not despise Ann Coulter, I like most of what she's said over the years. She's funny, she's witty, she makes connections that dazzle me because I never even noticed them till she pointed them out.
But I disapprove of her use of that word. I rate it almost with the N word if only in terms of its ability to project hostility, belittlement, and a deliberate attempt to hurt. I cannot tell anyone else what to do, but if anyone, gay or not, asks me what *I* thought of her remark, I'm going to tell her: Not all conservatives have the attitude that gays are not to be respected. I disapprove of Ann's use of that word, even for comedy purposes, and I hope it does not scare all the Michaels and Tonys into voting DNC just because they think that the DNC, at least, cares about how they feel.
Well stated.
2. When folks register shock at shocking things Ann says, I usually disagree, although sometimes very, very mildly.
3. Here, I agree with you. Coulter has a lot to say to everyone, things I really want people to hear. Stuff like this shocks for the sake of shocking, accomplishes nothing good, only shuts doors.
4. It is painful to see someone you like and respect, with a 98% good payload, disarming the whole by some foolish little misfire. Afterwards, all that is remembered is the misfire.
Actually, she is the one exposing me to it. LOL... but I can't stop her, she's almost 30. What I can do is watch over her.
But I have not thrown any stones. I simply think Ann's remark was detrimental to conservatism.
Could you summarize my conclusions and tell me how you disagree?
Rubbish!
Frankly, I'm always suspicious when you go to the person's profile and there is nothing there.
It is like they want to be "Drive-BY Commentators", where they shoot a thought, an insult, and are gone before you can see the tail lights go out of sight.
It helps to know a background, as you can see why they have a point of view.
A faggot is a bundle of sticks or branches. What's wrong with Coulter calling Edwards a bundle of branches? Is this some PC environment thing?
Yes, it was to draw attention to herself so she can make more money and be more famous.
It's all about Ann. She doesn't give a rat's a$$ what happens to this country as long as she can insult people along the way and get rich doing it.
Then show some spine and tell her you disagree with a lifestyle that gives you a 10,000 times greater chance of getting AIDS than normal people. Then you are fine watching her flirt, did you flirt too? Would you let her play Russian Roulette too, since she's 30.
You realize the average homosexual has had over 300 partners in a group that is a breeding ground for VD? What Conservative values are you standing for, besides condemning Queen Ann.
Pray for W and Our Troops
Folks participating in this life style need help, not "normalization" into society...making that statement alone will alienate many of them because they are so fixed on and wrapped up in a self destructive life style that their hearts and minds are not open to it.
My point is simply that remaining fixed and firm in those convictions, in my experience, will alienate many of them without any need or desire to resort to hateful behavior in the least.
Such a set of cirumstance should not deter us from continuing in our determination to address the issue for the problem that it is.
Open gays, for example, should not serve in the military. It is hurtful and in fact dangerous to troop moral and group cohesion, just as fratenizing with the opposite sex would be and is disallowed. You cannot have the captan or the sergeant "in love" with the 2nd Lt. or Corproal or enlisted man and therefore making decisions based on that emotion as opposed to the accomplishment of the mission. In the end, that does not serve to defend our country...it just makes it more vulnerable.
Anyhow, that is just one example and not meant to be an attack on you or your statements, just a response to one aspect ofthem.
And her jokes are usually great. This one wasn't.
B) The joke used the word faggot, because a person had gone to rehab for using that word.
Yes, I know. Still not funny.
C) The point wasn't to call Edwards a faggot, but to mock the absurdity of going to rehab for using the word.
No, I don't think anyone is going to fall for that explanation. It's a little like Kerry's "stuck in Iraq" blunder. It is what it is and we cannot explain it away.
Since you are denizen of the homosexual world you surely must know they call each other faggots all the time.
This was only my 2nd time there so I'm not a denizen of their world, but the sneer in your voice here is unmistakable. It's this emotional hostility that I am concerned with. It's unworthy of conservatism. Moreover, blacks call each other a certain word all the time too. It doesn't mean it would be a good idea for a white conservative pundit to start slinging it around. Imagine if Ann had said that and Obama instead of "faggot" and Edwards.
Coulter herself has no animus towards homosexuals whatsoever and has championed homosexuals joining the conservative movement.
Hey, I like Ann. I think she's great. But this was a blunder and I wish she hadn't said it.
All you have done is pile on onto the dozen of Coulter-bashing threads that have already been posted, when you don't really know what you are talking about.
Could you please look back and tell me where I "bashed" her? I'll ask the moderator to remove it.
But it's OK to call me a Nazi? A terrorist? Gun carrying wacko?
Cry me a river.
Well, I'm just not one to tell my life story. But if you search me in the forum, you'll find that I have been here, and active, for many years. I am not a troll. If you are curious, I can tell you that I am former military and am now an English teacher.
Maybe this video will provide some context to the joke
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AE847UXu3Q
You don't seem to understand: my sister is not gay. She just likes hanging out with them because she thinks them fun, nice, and non-threatening. And no, I don't flirt with them. I get into political discussions with them. I am trying to lure them into a more comprehensive view of conservatism. I'm surprised you would disapprove.
Ann Coulter doesn't know where to draw the line - let alone not to step over it. She should be denounced as Michelle Malkin has done.
Thank you, but your statements don't seem to be a response to anything I said. What I said is that many of them could possibly be persuaded to vote conservative if we don't alienate them with deliberately hurtful remarks. I don't quite get how your list of your views on homosexuality in general addresses my post.
The gay community asks for tolerance of their beliefs yet are intolerant of ours....who are the prejudiced ones? When I am in California I am treated with intolerance and curiosity because I am from the South, especially gays...
Do not throw your pearls before swine....
C) The point wasn't to call Edwards a faggot, but to mock the absurdity of going to rehab for using the word.
No, I don't think anyone is going to fall for that explanation. It's a little like Kerry's "stuck in Iraq" blunder. It is what it is and we cannot explain it away.
+++++++
Sorry, your pretentious language made me think you might at least take a stab at being reasonable.
But have it your way. Coulter called Edwards a faggot. She did so to drive homosexuals away from conservatism and to embarrass the movement and the GOP in general.
And consequently we should listen to you, since you've been to a gay bar twice, and drum her out of the movement and apologize to the homosexuals.
Yes -- that makes much more sense.
Thank you for your splendid contribution to the discussion of this weighty issue.
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