Posted on 03/04/2007 8:01:09 AM PST by Uncle Miltie
E85 is a loser for reduced miles per gallon, as reported in published articles in recent magazines. Stories published in various magazines, e.g., Consumer Reports, CARandDRIVER, Bioscience, Scientific American, American Scientist and Science in 2005 and 2006 question the scientific and economic validity of ethanol (a mixture of gasoline and alcohol) made from corn grain or other fermentable carbohydrates (CHO).
Alcohol made from fermented cellosic material (wood from certain trees, plant materials from plants such as switchgrass or other grasses, etc. may be more feasible. However, cellosic materials are composed of complex CHOs which must be modified to more simple, fermentable CHOs to produce alcohol, and the needed economic procedures are not yet developed.
A significant fact is that gasoline from petroleum has 115,400 British Thermal Units per gallon whereas alcohol (ethanol) has only 75,670 BTUs per gallon, or, alcohol has only .66 the energy of gasoline.
Further, the energy input to produce corn, such as machinery, fertilizer, seed, etc., and the total process of conversion of corn grain to alcohol and by-products requires more energy than is produced in the ethanol, according to researchers at Cornell University (2007 publication) and others. However, others reported a 1.34 gain in energy from the ethanol from the corn when he included the energy of byproducts.
Two publications, Consumer Reports and CARandDRIVER in recent road tests or on an oval track, in 2006 trials found that E85 (gasoline mixed with 85 percent alcohol) has approximately 30 percent less mileage as compared to 87 octane gasoline. At prices of gasoline and E85 in August, 2006, the fuel costs to travel 400 miles (road) with E85 ($3.99) would have exceeded gasoline ($2.49), or a Tahoe Chevrolet went 400 miles on a tankful of gasoline versus the Tahoe going only 290 miles on a tankful of E85.
The author of the story in CARandDRIVER quoted that the Environmental Protection Agency has reported 28 percent reduction in mileage for E85 as compared to gasoline. E85 provided only 0.67 the mileage of gasoline.
Ethanol from corn has required large federal and state subsidies, a 51c/gallon federal subsidy of alcohol blended with gasoline, plus state subsidies and tax incentives to grow to its present 107 ethanol plants producing 5.1 billion gallons of alcohol in 2006, and growing.
The price of corn has increased
50 percent or more in six to nine months benefiting corn growers. The higher price of corn is hurting livestock producers (beef cattle, swine, poultry, etc.) because the price of feeder cattle has decreased significantly and the price of corn for feed has increased 50 percent in six months.
A potentially more efficient producer of liquid fuel energy is thought to be the “cellulosic” system, or production of alcohol from complex CHOs such as wood chips, plant material from corn stalks, and perennial grasses such as switchgrass. However, a basic problem is the development of enzyme(s) to convert complex CHOs to fermentable CHOs.
Economic transportation of such bulky materials also is a problem. Another problem is that the cellulosic plants will use about 500 to 1,000 gallons of water per minute or 1,440,000 gallons per 24 hours with plants closely spaced due to bulk of cellulosic material. (Says Dr. Thomas Robb, in Farm & Ranch Guide, Jan. 5)
The production and use of biodiesel (diesel from petroleum to which are added modified vegetable oils or waste fats) also have economic problems. Canola oil highly publicized for use now has a higher cost per pound or gallon than diesel fuel from petroleum, $3/gallon wholesale versus $2.47/gallon retail. Canola oil is popular for use in cooking or in foods.
Soybean oil has a lower price than canola oil but now has increased to 28.5c/lb. about 10 percent higher than the maximum, 25c/lb. at which using soybean oil in biodiesel will be economic.
The potential users of biofuels are urged to become better informed about their practical and economic feasibility. Stories in the popular press are mostly very favorable to “replaceable, sustainable biofuels” as are corn growers, speculators and most politicians. Other publications are skeptical to negative about the practical and economic feasibility of biofuels now produced from corn grain and other plant sources.
Carter and Nalewaja are professors emeritus in plant science at North Dakota State University.
Both had distinguished careers in teaching and research – Carter in flaxseed for food and fuel, Nalewaja in development of weed control practices. E-mail ImySm@aol.com
I take it you think Mobil One is worth the extra money. How often do you change the oil?
The polymer chains in synthetic oil are engineered to be more consistant in length than petroleum-based oils and don't break down under temperature and friction as easily.
If the president was serious about this, we would have 50% of the auto's sold in the united sates converted to diesel and running on canola oil, and you could grown the rapeseed for the oil in less acres than is currently used for corn are close to that amount.
You're a publik skool victim, right?
I swear that reading comprehension and math skills in this country have severely diminsihed.
Oh yeah, and I forgot:
5. More expensive beef, pork and corn based items.
6. Expensive engine modification to burn the stuff.
Aside from the above, this Moscow on the Mississippi idea is great!
So will butanol..
Straight Butane produces more, but butanol has the extra Oxy atom and so burns a bit more efficiently, and gives off part of it's exhaust as water vapor..
But it will still exhaust CO2..
Just about all fuels will, with the exception of hydrogen..
But basically, what you're dealing with here is methane..
Natural Gas.. ( which can be liquefied )
And this article is from the "Fargo Forum".. in ND..
North Dakota is one of the nation's largest producers of .. Liquid Natural Gas..
They "crack" it out of their massive coal fields and produce LNG for much of the nation's power plants..
It is, in fact, piped all the way to the East Coast..
You can kind of bet that North Dakota isn't necessarily that interested in ethanol, from a financial perspective..
They could produce butanol however, from that same coal source..
Butane is a product of the coal / methane process...
Yes, you can make butanol from natural gas / petroleum as well as "bio"butanol from sugar beets, etc., and it is the same thing..
Wonder Warthog: Which basically says that ethanol is a MORE EFFICIENT fuel than gasoline, based on the BTU/gallon ratios.
Huh? If you mix 0.85 gallons of ethanol at 75,670 BTUs per gallon and 0.15 gallons of gasoline at 115,400 BTUs per gallon, you get E85 at 81629.5 BTUs / gallon (assuming that does equal 1 gallon which isn't true for some mixtures). That 81629.5 is 70.7% of the gasoline energy density, thus I would expect it to get 29.3% less mileage than gasoline. That is almost identical to the 30% reduction Car and Driver found. I think you messed up by assuming that E85 had the same energy density as ethanol.
Every 7,500 miles/6 months. My driving is strictly hi-speed freeway; YMMV.
And now you know the rest of the story.
I wonder how many dollars per mile butanol costs, compared to ethanol?
The farmers in NoDak LOVE Ethanol. They're all driving new Corvettes funded by ecoweenies in California. Corn is the new Meth!
* Higher energy content (110,000 Btu’s per gallon for butanol vs. 84,000 Btu per gallon for ethanol). Gasoline contains about 115,000 Btu’s per gallon.
* Butanol is six times less “evaporative” than ethanol and 13.5 times less evaporative than gasoline, making it safer to use as an oxygenate in Arizona, California and other states, thereby eliminating the need for very special blends during the summer and winter months.
* Butanol can be shipped through existing fuel pipelines where ethanol must be transported via rail, barge or truck
* Butanol can be used as a replacement for gasoline gallon for gallon e.g. 100%, or any other percentage. Ethanol can only be used as an additive to gasoline up to about 85% and then only after significant modifications to the engine. Worldwide 10% ethanol blends predominate.
ABC pointed this out on the evening news. Yeah, that's the ticket.
Not my field of science, but would ethanol produce even more CO2 per mile than gasoline does? Seems like ethanol is intended for the US to get free of terrorist-produced oil rather than qualities like efficiency or cost.
I am more than familiar with the territory..
Especially Sugar Beets..
One of my first jobs was as a "beet hoe'er".. ( that's just funny.. I don't care who ya are..)
Those beets can be used for ethanol, methanol, butanol, and even Sugar..
Don't that beat all?
Corn is the new Meth..
Give the NDSU / UND chemistry staffs some time, they will find a way to MAKE "meth" from sugar beets.. ( or corn )
Metric system??
So if a plane in Europe crashes and it's reported that 110 people were killed then in the USA if the same plane crashed only 75 people would have been killed.
(my humble attempt at humor)
/r/jane
What is it now? 20 or 30 per cent...?
I'd pay $3.70 per gallon for a fuel with mileage comparable to gasoline, that would cut off the flow of petrodollars to Islamic terrorists.
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