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E85 (85% Ethanol) a loser for reduced miles/gallon
The Fargo Forum ^
| 03/04/07
| By Jack F. Carter and John D. Nalewaja
Posted on 03/04/2007 8:01:09 AM PST by Uncle Miltie
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To: GoldCountryRedneck
I take it you think Mobil One is worth the extra money. How often do you change the oil?
41
posted on
03/04/2007 9:16:32 AM PST
by
MSF BU
To: FreeManWhoCan
The polymer chains in synthetic oil are engineered to be more consistant in length than petroleum-based oils and don't break down under temperature and friction as easily.
42
posted on
03/04/2007 9:16:41 AM PST
by
ffusco
(Maecilius Fuscus,Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
To: Balding_Eagle
Oops! An INCONVENIENT TRUTH. If the president was serious about this, we would have 50% of the auto's sold in the united sates converted to diesel and running on canola oil, and you could grown the rapeseed for the oil in less acres than is currently used for corn are close to that amount.
43
posted on
03/04/2007 9:20:05 AM PST
by
org.whodat
(Never let the facts get in the way of a good assumption.)
To: Wonder Warthog
"
Which basically says that ethanol is a MORE EFFICIENT fuel than gasoline, based on the BTU/gallon ratios."
You're a publik skool victim, right?
I swear that reading comprehension and math skills in this country have severely diminsihed.
44
posted on
03/04/2007 9:20:46 AM PST
by
Outland
(Socialism is a mental disorder.)
To: Jacquerie
Oh yeah, and I forgot:
5. More expensive beef, pork and corn based items.
6. Expensive engine modification to burn the stuff.
Aside from the above, this Moscow on the Mississippi idea is great!
45
posted on
03/04/2007 9:30:28 AM PST
by
Jacquerie
(To the Socialists of All Parties.)
To: neodad
I'm reaching way back to my chemistry, but ethanol still will procuce C02 as a biproduct. So will butanol..
Straight Butane produces more, but butanol has the extra Oxy atom and so burns a bit more efficiently, and gives off part of it's exhaust as water vapor..
But it will still exhaust CO2..
Just about all fuels will, with the exception of hydrogen..
But basically, what you're dealing with here is methane..
Natural Gas.. ( which can be liquefied )
And this article is from the "Fargo Forum".. in ND..
North Dakota is one of the nation's largest producers of .. Liquid Natural Gas..
They "crack" it out of their massive coal fields and produce LNG for much of the nation's power plants..
It is, in fact, piped all the way to the East Coast..
You can kind of bet that North Dakota isn't necessarily that interested in ethanol, from a financial perspective..
They could produce butanol however, from that same coal source..
Butane is a product of the coal / methane process...
Yes, you can make butanol from natural gas / petroleum as well as "bio"butanol from sugar beets, etc., and it is the same thing..
46
posted on
03/04/2007 9:31:44 AM PST
by
Drammach
("If you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." -- Benjamin Franklin)
To: Wonder Warthog
Brad Cloven:
"Two publications, Consumer Reports and CARandDRIVER in recent road tests or on an oval track, in 2006 trials found that E85 (gasoline mixed with 85 percent alcohol) has approximately 30 percent less mileage as compared to 87 octane gasoline." Wonder Warthog: Which basically says that ethanol is a MORE EFFICIENT fuel than gasoline, based on the BTU/gallon ratios.
Huh? If you mix 0.85 gallons of ethanol at 75,670 BTUs per gallon and 0.15 gallons of gasoline at 115,400 BTUs per gallon, you get E85 at 81629.5 BTUs / gallon (assuming that does equal 1 gallon which isn't true for some mixtures). That 81629.5 is 70.7% of the gasoline energy density, thus I would expect it to get 29.3% less mileage than gasoline. That is almost identical to the 30% reduction Car and Driver found. I think you messed up by assuming that E85 had the same energy density as ethanol.
47
posted on
03/04/2007 9:40:00 AM PST
by
KarlInOhio
(Samoans: The (low) wage slaves in the Pelosi-Starkist complex.)
To: MSF BU
How often do you change the oil? Every 7,500 miles/6 months. My driving is strictly hi-speed freeway; YMMV.
48
posted on
03/04/2007 9:41:41 AM PST
by
GoldCountryRedneck
("There are no stupid questions. There are, however, many inquisitive idiots." - unknown)
To: thackney
Two publications, Consumer Reports and CARandDRIVER in recent road tests or on an oval track, in 2006 trials found that E85 (gasoline mixed with 85 percent alcohol) has approximately 30 percent less mileage as compared to 87 octane gasoline. At prices of gasoline and E85 in August, 2006, the fuel costs to travel 400 miles (road) with E85 ($3.99) would have exceeded gasoline ($2.49), or a Tahoe Chevrolet went 400 miles on a tankful of gasoline versus the Tahoe going only 290 miles on a tankful of E85. And now you know the rest of the story.
49
posted on
03/04/2007 9:42:59 AM PST
by
sportutegrl
(This thread is useless without pix.)
To: taxcontrol
I wonder how many dollars per mile butanol costs, compared to ethanol?
50
posted on
03/04/2007 9:43:04 AM PST
by
Mr J
(All IMHO.)
To: FreeManWhoCan
More expensive to purchase but better by far for wear. Mobile 1, as I recall, says that German auto manufactures such as Porcshe claim no measurable wear @ 200,000 miles. So, if I was planning on keeping a vehicle forever and all the while actually drive it, I would load it with synthetic whever I could. There are synthetics for engines, manual transmissions, and rear differentials. I am not sure about automatic transmissions.
My last automobile that I intend to purchase for my self is the new Camaro, Z28. (When available.) It will only see synthetic and you can take that to the bank.
Back in the oil embargo days I considered modifying my dad's 428 Merc and 440 Chrs. to use methanol. Contacted Colt industries, Holley Carb Division, for initial jetting recommendations and was blown away by the response. For a bread and butter 3310 92 primaries and NO secondary jets. Fuel economy would have been about 5 MPG with a tail wind. And with all the hassles and cost associated with making the stuff I threw that idea out. Interesting about it dissolving cured resins.
51
posted on
03/04/2007 9:45:16 AM PST
by
Nuc1
(NUC1 Sub pusher SSN 668 (Liberals Aren't Patriots))
To: Drammach
"You can kind of bet that North Dakota isn't necessarily that interested in ethanol, from a financial perspective.." The farmers in NoDak LOVE Ethanol. They're all driving new Corvettes funded by ecoweenies in California. Corn is the new Meth!
52
posted on
03/04/2007 9:52:38 AM PST
by
Uncle Miltie
(McCain / Feingold - 2008 ... "Shut Up or Go To Prison")
To: Mr J
Presently about $3.70 per gallon... ( 100% butanol )
Costs are projected to decrease with new production methods.. possibly as low as $1.35 gal..
* Higher energy content (110,000 Btus per gallon for butanol vs. 84,000 Btu per gallon for ethanol). Gasoline contains about 115,000 Btus per gallon.
* Butanol is six times less evaporative than ethanol and 13.5 times less evaporative than gasoline, making it safer to use as an oxygenate in Arizona, California and other states, thereby eliminating the need for very special blends during the summer and winter months.
* Butanol can be shipped through existing fuel pipelines where ethanol must be transported via rail, barge or truck
* Butanol can be used as a replacement for gasoline gallon for gallon e.g. 100%, or any other percentage. Ethanol can only be used as an additive to gasoline up to about 85% and then only after significant modifications to the engine. Worldwide 10% ethanol blends predominate.
http://www.butanol.com/
53
posted on
03/04/2007 9:56:00 AM PST
by
Drammach
("If you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." -- Benjamin Franklin)
To: pyx
ABC pointed this out on the evening news. Yeah, that's the ticket.
To: neodad
ethanol still will procuce C02 as a biproduct Not my field of science, but would ethanol produce even more CO2 per mile than gasoline does? Seems like ethanol is intended for the US to get free of terrorist-produced oil rather than qualities like efficiency or cost.
55
posted on
03/04/2007 10:00:36 AM PST
by
RightWhale
(300 miles north of Big Wild Life)
To: Brad Cloven
I grew up in Casselton, ND, about 25 miles west of Fargo..
I am more than familiar with the territory..
Especially Sugar Beets..
One of my first jobs was as a "beet hoe'er".. ( that's just funny.. I don't care who ya are..)
Those beets can be used for ethanol, methanol, butanol, and even Sugar..
Don't that beat all?
Corn is the new Meth..
Give the NDSU / UND chemistry staffs some time, they will find a way to MAKE "meth" from sugar beets.. ( or corn )
56
posted on
03/04/2007 10:04:53 AM PST
by
Drammach
("If you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." -- Benjamin Franklin)
To: honestfreedom69
"We will never successfully deal with our energy problems until we accept a large dose of nuclear power."
Bingo, this is the correct answer.
57
posted on
03/04/2007 10:10:56 AM PST
by
MarkM
To: Balding_Eagle
Metric system??
So if a plane in Europe crashes and it's reported that 110 people were killed then in the USA if the same plane crashed only 75 people would have been killed.
(my humble attempt at humor)
/r/jane
58
posted on
03/04/2007 10:14:59 AM PST
by
SkyDancer
("Those That Would Rather Have Security Than Freedom Deserve Neither")
To: MarkM
What is it now? 20 or 30 per cent...?
To: Drammach
$3.70 per gallon I'd pay $3.70 per gallon for a fuel with mileage comparable to gasoline, that would cut off the flow of petrodollars to Islamic terrorists.
60
posted on
03/04/2007 10:35:15 AM PST
by
Mr J
(All IMHO.)
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