Posted on 03/01/2007 7:51:41 PM PST by rellimpank
Don't take what I said as gospel since it was heresay, I was just quoting what a class 3 dealer I used to go to full auto shoots with told me a couple of years ago about the price police departments paid for subguns. I suspect on the theft market it's kind of like buying a used car. Whatever price both parties agree on :-)
The PD was grossly incompetent at Columbine. Why else would it take them 3 hours to finish clearing the building? By the end, there were 600+ officers on site.
Contrast the performance of the Santa Barbara County Sheriffs Department January 30, 2006, when a woman entered a postal processing center and killed 7. The SB Sheriffs entered the building rapidly and did not wait for hours safely behind barricades.
He was SWAT. Most SWAT members have a choice of the MP-5 or M-16.
clearly not a Hobo, they only use Shotguns.
What was he doing with it in his personal vehicle?
As opposed what a highly trained SWAT team member could do if he was charged with confiscating your guns?
The next time somebody shoots at me I sincerely hope he's on full auto. That means he gets to miss that much faster. There is a specific (well several) pattern that one should use when using full auto to take advantage of muzzle climb. I used to use the low/high method of deliberately aiming low and stitching a neat vertical group right up the front of a target. That puts more effective rounds on target than off. When engaging a vehicle, you can go with the "Z" pattern that starts off to the rear of the vehicle and rakes the fire laterally across the target LOW from rear to front then shifting at the front to an upward cant of the pattern again raking the vehicle from low front to high rear and then a third swipe this time at the top from rear to front again. Each burst should be between 7-10 rds. When dealing with a vehicle it almost always works better to be using something like an M2HB cal 50 that something like the MP5.
OTOH the M16 got the gift of the (hated) three round burst limiting device because spray and pray had become the norm and that was a scary thing when entering a tightly packed room with other soldiers and attempting to neutralize multiple targets. That's why we invented the technique to split the room into halves with one high and one low sweeping to intersect at the middle. The H&K MP5 Suppressed is IDEAL for this situation.
Looks like there are too many cops and too many swat teams.
Though....US v Rock Island is kindof amusing.
"Since its passage in 1934, the registration, taxation, and other requirements of the National Firearms Act ("NFA") have been upheld by the courts under the power of Congress to raise revenue. (Footnote 5) However, 18 U.S.C. sec. 922(o), which became effective on May 19, 1986, prohibits possession of machineguns, and thereby repealed or rendered unconstitutional the portions of the National Firearms Act which provided for the raising of revenue from the making, possession, and transfer of machineguns made after such date. As the government conceded at oral argument, the United States refuses to register or accept tax payments for the making or transfer of machineguns made after 1986. (Footnote 6) Thus, sec. 922(o), as applied to machineguns made after May 19, 1986, left the registration and other requirements of the National Firearms Act without any constitutional basis. "
Do the right thing: delete your post and stop repeating that crap.
Yeah, I know there's been a lot of pressure around Denver to quiet things down before the Democratic Convention comes to Denver in 2008.
I believe I'll wait until it's actually announced that all the families have dropped all their legal attempts to find out what really happened to Dan Rohrbough. Who, by the way, held the door open that day and probably saved the life of Columbine senior Nick Foss, thereby earning and deserving real respect and admiration a whole bunch more than the cops who ran away and hid behind cars, then shot at anyone/anything that moved, [they admit firing at least 141 rounds of the bullet casings that were recovered from the high school] and then later gave neat little hero medals to each other- at least 50 awards *for valor*- after they'd cleared some rooms inside the school with automatic weapons fire long after Klebold and Harris were dead. [Except for Kennedy High school police officer Lew Padilla, who really did save Lance Kirklin life by driving his patrol car close enough for Kirklin, who'd been shot in the legs and had been bleeding for 3 hours, to jump into the car's trunk]
1999:Carpenter returns to park with 13 memorial crosses
2000: Answers promised for Columbine victims' relatives
Killing of two [more] Columbine students reopens old wounds
2001: Family: Columbine Student Killed By Cop
2001: Jeffco sheriff story shaky
2002: Rohrbough mystery shouldn't have been
2003: High court refuses to consider fight over Columbine memorial
2003: WHAT WENT WRONG AT COLUMBINE
2004: Columbine cover-up alleged; Released reports conclude officials hid damaging evidence
2004:Secret Columbine meeting linked to missing documents
2005: Columbine Kin Rip Judicial Pick
2005: Investigation clears lawyers; Five attorneys were in secret meeting after Columbine
2006: Columbine Killers' Journals, Not Home Video, Will Be Released
Parents of Columbine gunman Eric Harris don't object to sealing sworn statements for 25 years
What the hell do police in Smallville USA need with MACHINE GUNS anyway?
You've obviously never heard the term "active shooter."
Things were different pre Colmumbine. Just as they were different pre 9/11.
Pre Col the cops were TRAINED to set up a perimeter and wait for negotiators just as pre 9/11 everyone was trained to let the highjackers have the plane and negotiate with them on the ground.
Now it is common for active shooters to execute as many hostages as possible as quickly as possible - so the first cops on the scene are TRAINED to move in immediatly. And passangers are now TRAINED not to be passive when being highjacked.
But the issue I have is that you are calling a cop who may have made a mistake and shot an innocent soul, grossly incompetent. Unless you can back up your charges, which I don't think you can, you should retract.
Course lots of people talk big on the net. You might be one of the people who'd say that to the cops face -doesn't mean you are right though.
Why don't you give the cop a break and retract. Let it be between the cop and the poor kid's families.
My brother is a retired LAPD officer who left on a medical after being shot in the line of duty a second time. I know what he thinks about Columbine, and base my appreciation of police tactics on his experience.
So all cops do have automatic weapon based on the fact that cop had one?
Once a shooter learns how to control muzzle climb he is well on the way to becoming effective with his weapon.Then he can concentrate on leading targets.I spent a lot of time practicing instinct shooting with my MP-5 and M16,I'm convinced its the right technique.
Where did I say "all?"
Move to New Hampshire - we get NFA firearms here with just the police chief's signature.
You need that firepower when you are out drinking at Jackson's Hole.
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