Assault Rifles for Hunters? (Zumbo goes mad)

Remington Country website ^ | 16 FEB 2007 | Jim Zumbo

[Zeon Cowboy]

Screw this guy.

[SampleMan]

Well, there are several ways to define "sporting". In the context that one needs to allow the animal a "sporting" chance in order to make it more fun for the hunter, I'm not a big fan. Hunting is what it is. If the animal isn't tied down then nothing is predestined.

If one is to define "sporting" as allowing other hunters an opportunity to take their share of game, by disallowing things like small canon, then I can see the point.

[oldfart]

I e-mailed the Remington CEO, telling him that I supported his action to dump Zumbo and that I'd probably be buying a new Remington rifle this spring, even though I don't really need one.
He surprised me by answering with a simple "Thank you." That's more than I've ever gotten from one of my congresscritters.

[Charles Martel]

I'll bet Remington is seeing a distinct change in the tone of the e-mails that they're receiving since yesterday. It's gratifying that they'd respond with thanks; I'll have to peruse their catalog to see what I "need".

[going hot]

Some people use the RPG for fishing.

Well, If you are in a hurry, and don't have a line and a hook, it works very well. LOL

[BigTom85]

Ted Nugent needs to kick this boob square in the ass a few good times! The nuge is a big time hunter and likes ALL things that go BANG!

[holymoly]

We also both know how easy it is to convert them to fully automatic

I don't know that. I've heard that claim made by the Brady Campaign and other gun-control advocates, as an excuse to ban semi-automatic firearms.

If you know how to handle a semi-automatic M 1 Garand, it should be pretty easy to figure out how to operate an M14. I guess an M16 isn't that much different. And THAT is the real reason for the Second Amendment.

Agreed, 100%.

However, none of this is to the topic at hand.

It is one thing to make a cogent argument that a certain firearm/cartridge combination may be unsuitable for a particular type of game, situation, etc.

E.G. I know some people who hunt deer with the .223 Remington, and others who consider the cartridge too weak for deer hunting. (I leave that debate to them.)

However, that isn't what Zumbo and other elitist, myopic "traditionalists" such as him do.

Zumbo stated that semi-automatic rifles, such as the AR-15, were unsuitable for hunting. Period.

He then went even further, and said they should be banned "from the praries (sic) and woods".

In doing this, he plays into the hands of the Brady Campaign, etc. whos' propaganda campaign for "common sense" gun control is never ending.

The Brady Campaigns' idea of "common sense" gun control includes a ban on so-called "non-sporting" firearms. This means a ban on all semi-automatic rifles, with detachable magazines.

Shortly after Zumbo posted his comments to his blog, the Brady Campaign was already using Zumbos' statements to further their subversive, anti-gun agenda (I posted links earlier).

Jim Zumbos words may very well be used in an attempt to convince legislators (many of whom are are uneducated about firearms), to ban these "terrorist" rifles.

While we both know the Second Amendment isn't about hunting, there are too many legislators who don't.

This is why I originally replied to you, and your comment that "He's right about hunting and military rifles."

Zumbo isn't right.

Millions of people hunt each year, with semi-automatic rifles. Semi-automatic rifles are no less suitable for hunting than bolt or lever action rifles. By stating otherwise, Jim Zumbo merely displayed his elitism and his admitted ignorance.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***I have read that at one time, the Mauser bolt action type rifle was considered very unsporting because it was a "weapon of war", not a sporting arm. ***

Back in the good old dark ages before the 1968 Gun Control Law the Mauser rifle was "evil" because it has been a military issued surplus. Thomas J. Dodd and Emanuel Cellar tried to get the imports banned as "non-sporting rifles" because they cut into the profits of the American gun industry (Remmington, Winchester, Savage). they were successful in 1968.
The very same rifle could be imported if it had been issued to a Police agency, but not Military.

[mountn man]

we weren't discussing anything about poaching. We were talking about magazine capacity.

Who cares if you have 30 rounds in your gun? Why should there be a limit? If your allowed 3 deer, and thats all you take, great. What does capacity have to do with it?

Poaching would be if I had a 30 round mag, and took 30 deer. Or just one over the limit.

Having 30 rounds doesn't make me poach, and doesn't make me a poacher.

Limiting capacity has nothing to do with hunting.

It has to do with someone who is afraid of guns taking a step to limit the freedoms of those not afraid.

The first step is to limit capacity.

The next step is to limit calibur.

The next step will be to limit semi auto's

The next step will be anything that looks evil.

The next step is that they all look evil.

[ModelBreaker]

Hunters should be careful, in Europe they are seen as wackier than the "wackiest" illegal gun owner for personal protection. Gun control does not stop there.

Yes. But we have an exchange student from Germany living with us this year. He can hardly wait to go shooting.

[ZULU]

"I don't know that. I've heard that claim made by the Brady Campaign and other gun-control advocates, as an excuse to ban semi-automatic firearms."

If I can build a rifle - and I can - I can convert a semi-automatic to a fully automatic. I know what the Brady nuts say. Not matter what the facts, they simply want to ban all guns - regardless if it is a single shot muzzle-loader or a a BB rifle or a picture of a gun - they are nuts - fanatics.

Persoanlly, I don't see what challenge there is in using a semi=automatic to hunt game or vermin. I guess if you want to eterminate a pest like coyotes, they have their usefulness.

"I don't know that. I've heard that claim made by the Brady Campaign and other gun-control advocates, as an excuse to ban semi-automatic firearms."

I saw a special on TV about Eskimos who use a .22 to shoot polar bears. They just get real close and use the right shot placement - not for me. They are also the Mafia's weapon of choice - again - get real close, make little noise but proper shot placement in the head.

"While we both know the Second Amendment isn't about hunting, there are too many legislators who don't. "

In my correspondence with most legislators, most of them haven't the foggiest notion of the difference between a fully automatic and semi-automatic and couldn't care less. Most of the bills they introduce are written by legilstiave aides who know even less than they do. I had interesting conversations with idiots who want to ban .50 caliber guns of all types and didn't even know Brown Bess'used in Revolutionary War re-enactments were .75 caliber.

I guess I'm a bit of an elitist. I remember reading "The Man-Eaters of Kumoun" by Corbett. He used a bolt action or a double barreled gun. And some bolt actions have removable magazines.

[ZULU]

Check this site out: http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/php/thornily.htm

Interesting.

[roaddog727]

Gee Jim,

So it's OK to use a .460 Weatherby Magnum to shoot buffalo, but not an AR15/SKS/AK47 to blast cayotes? Come on. Vermin is vermin. blast 'em with a mortar.

[from occupied ga]

I don't know that. I've heard that claim made by the Brady Campaign and other gun-control advocates, as an excuse to ban semi-automatic firearms.

First, the Brady buch are liars (what a surprise). It isn't all that easy, since the ATF won't certify a firearm for sale unless it's difficult to convert to full auto, typically requiring considerable machining of the reciever and a whole separate set of internal parts, and second SO F***ING WHAT?

What's so bad about a fully automatic weapon? We've been hammered with anti-gun propaganda for so long, that even progunners tend to concede that full autos should somehow be regulated. What a crock. If the cops and the military have them, then every person in the general populace who wants one should have them too. I remember getting into it in this forum with some lame brain from NY (or some other communist dictatorship in the northeast) about this very subject. The rtard just couldn't see why people should have unregulated access to military weapons.

[caver]

"I have read that at one time, the Mauser bolt action type rifle was considered very unsporting because it was a "weapon of war", not a sporting arm."

I was looking over Remington's web site and noticed that they quite freqently refer to the Mauser design being the basis of a number of their rifles. I wonder is Zumbo thinks a Mauser is an assault rifle?

[caver]

"Besides most of you hunting types like to "sporterize" (i.e. butcher) the rifles you mentioned by mangeling the stock and ruining the barrel with telescopic sites and putting rubber buttplates on them to protect your tender shoulders."

Not all of us do. I like my military rifle sto look like the way they were when they were issued. You seem to have the same problem as Zumbo.

[A. Patriot]

Wasn't it Adolph Hitler who first enacted "sporting use" gun laws in Germany?

[holymoly]

It isn't all that easy, since the ATF won't certify a firearm for sale unless it's difficult to convert to full auto, typically requiring considerable machining of the reciever and a whole separate set of internal parts,

That's what I thought.

What's so bad about a fully automatic weapon?

Not a damn thing.

We've been hammered with anti-gun propaganda for so long, that even progunners tend to concede that full autos should somehow be regulated.

Not me. I want a PPSh41.

But for me, it's one thing at a time.

For now, I want people, such as Jim Zumbo, the leftist media, etc. to stop disseminating anti-gun mis-information and propaganda.

Irregardless of whether or not fully-automatic weapons should be un-regulated, a semi-automatic WASR-10 is not an "assault rifle".

Referring to it as one is ignorant, dishonest, or both.

I have my hands full, just trying to pound simple facts like this through some peoples' head.

There's a hell of a battle coming. Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY) has already introduced a new "assault weapons" ban.

On her website, she spouts off about the PA & UT shootings, stating:

"In Philadelphia, a gunman opened fire on his colleagues using an AK-47 assault rifle he legally purchased. These dangerous weapons, which are intended to hit multiple targets in a short period of time..."

"I have again introduced legislation to permanently ban assault weapons. These weapons have no practical use. They are not used by hunters for sport or by individuals for self-defense.  (Emphasis added.)

The woman is, of course, a congenital liar.

Sadly, you have elitists like Jim Zumbo, and apparently some people here at FR, who agree with her.

This is the kind of ignorance, propaganda, mis-information and hyperbole that I try to fight.

One battle at a time.

[GunRunner]

The first step is to limit capacity.

The next step is to limit calibur.

The next step will be to limit semi auto's

The next step will be anything that looks evil.

The next step is that they all look evil.

When I went duck hunting, it took me 25 seconds to screw the plug into the magazine tube. When I got home it took me 25 seconds remove it. Call me crazy, but I didn't get the feeling that my freedoms were being infringed upon. There are much scarier and more dangerous regulations out there that truly affect 2A right than requiring you to plug your shotgun when you're on public land.

[holymoly]

Persoanlly, I don't see what challenge there is in using a semi=automatic to hunt game or vermin.

And therein lies your problem.

A semi-automatic rifle takes no less skill to hit a target than a bolt-action or lever-action rifle.

What do you think? Do you think people go into the woods with semi-autos, with 30-round mags, and hose down everything in sight? If so, you're just as ignorant as Jim Zumbo.

In my experience, people who hunt with semi-autos fire one round at a time, just like people who hunt with bolt-actions and lever-actions.

Second of all, not everyone hunts for "sport" or the "challenge".

I hunt for meat.

I guess I'm a bit of an elitist.

You also sound very much like Carolyn McCarthy, who I quote in post #318.