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Giuliani: Gun control helped lower crime
Yahoo ^

Posted on 02/11/2007 1:33:49 PM PST by Sub-Driver

Giuliani: Gun control helped lower crime

5 minutes ago

Rudy Giuliani addressed a potentially troublesome issue with conservative voters, saying his policies as mayor to get handguns off the street helped reduce crime in New York.

"I used gun control as mayor," he said at a news conference Saturday during a swing through California. But "I understand the Second Amendment. I understand the right to bear arms."

He said what he did as mayor would have no effect on hunting.

Addressing another potential trouble spot with conservatives, Giuliani spoke in favor of a border fence, saying, "You have to have secure borders, you have to have a fence, and the fence I think has to be a highly technological one."

The nation needs to know, he said, who is coming into the country and why. But he provided scant details on how he would deal with illegal immigrants already in the country. Citizens, he added, should be able to read and write English.

Giuliani was to make an address Monday in Silicon Valley and he was to appear Tuesday at an agricultural fair in the Central Valley.

Asked when he would make a formal announcement that he is a candidate for the Republican nomination, Giuliani said: "Well, formally announce? I don't know."

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 2008; armedcitizen; banglist; electionpresident; elections; giuliani; giuliani2008; gop; gungrabbingrino; lawrenforcement; liberalelite; lyinggungrabber; paleoasafraid; paleoskeywords; policestaterino; republicans; rudyonguns; voteduncanhunter
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To: meyer
This 08 election is really starting to worry me.

Guys at work keep on saying, "if you don't vote republican, then you'll be responsible for Hillary....blah blah"

I tell them all, I'm done voting for the lesser of two evils. You keep fishing in the same pond, your gonna keep catchin the same ol big mouth bass.

Vote change!!!!
261 posted on 02/11/2007 7:38:54 PM PST by servantboy777
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To: oceanview
"so as I said, the crime has to occur FIRST. "

That's right. Since when is prior restraint valid, or conviction w/o trial? Since when has reducing the entire population down to the lowest common denominator a good thing?"and the gang may be criminal enterprise"

May be? They are criminal enterprises! There's none that aren't.

" how do I know who is a member? "

It's never been all that difficult for me to tell.

"you are right, many urban police forces don't work well. and in those situations I agree with you, the choice between an ineffective police force, and broad gun carrying is an easy one - I'll take the gun."

It has nothing to do with ineffective police at all. It has to do with Freedom and a person's right to defend themselves. No one is justified in taking that right away, regardless. Criminals don't hit when they note police are around, or when it look dangerous for them. they hit when one least expects it, as a sneak attack, or after they size up an easy mark.

"Rudy didn't reduce murders in NYC from 2200+ to 700, by arming 5 million people."

He didn't reduce it by taking the guns away and leaving folks defenseless either. In fact he increased the number of those folks that got hit, because they were defenseless. Remember Bernard Goetz. How many times was he beaten, and had his gear stolen, or destroyed before he decided to mount the "illegal" self defense? He shot the perps, because they were going to stick him with a screwdriver. The bliss ninnies in NY got on him hard for that, because he was "violent". So, they held a candle light vigil party for the poor victim perps.

262 posted on 02/11/2007 7:41:14 PM PST by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani)
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To: oceanview

Also, the crime reduction resulted from the institution of aggressive police action, which replaced the former laxity. Again, disarming the citizens did nothing, except ot leave them vulnerable.


263 posted on 02/11/2007 7:43:30 PM PST by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani)
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To: servantboy777
I tell them all, I'm done voting for the lesser of two evils. You keep fishing in the same pond, your gonna keep catchin the same ol big mouth bass.

I'm with you - I did it in 2000, 2004, and 2006 (with that RINO Corker who shouldn't have even been on the ballot) and I won't do it any more. I've already cut the party off from any financial support. I will support individual candidates only, and they'd better be conservative.

264 posted on 02/11/2007 7:44:05 PM PST by meyer (Bring back the Contract with America and you'll bring back the Republican majority.)
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To: meyer
Ok, get ready, duck down into the foxhole......we fixin to have some incoming rounds lobbed at us.

Seriously though, it's nice to see someone that shares my views.

I've had so many on this forum attempt to demonize independent minded folks.

I don't OWE anyone my vote. Yes, it sucks to have a liberal/socialist in office, but sometimes it's necessary for people to experience that to bring about REAL conservative change.

Conservatives threw the liberals out 10years ago, and we'll do it again. Just may take a lil time.

God bless
265 posted on 02/11/2007 7:52:20 PM PST by servantboy777
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To: spunkets

yes, we might be able to "tell" who is a gang member - but we aren't going to be able to say "you don't look like you should get a carry permit, we don't like your haircut and tattoo".

the "stop and frisk" policy was the single most effective thing NYPD did to lower crime. why did it work? because it put some fear into all these thugs carry guns, that they would be profiled and stopped by the police for little cause, and if the gun were found they were going to do time. so they stopped carrying them. other urban police forces will not do that, NYC didn't do that in the past either.


266 posted on 02/11/2007 8:02:27 PM PST by oceanview
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To: servantboy777

you will not be able to recover the country from a Dem serving two terms in 2008/2012. you'll get a national health care plan, and once americans are slid into it and lose their employer provided care - the program will never be able to be dismantled. if a Dem wins in 2008, those SCOTUS picks will effectively end any conservative advancement on the social issues (abortion, gay marriage) until 2040.


267 posted on 02/11/2007 8:07:33 PM PST by oceanview
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To: Sub-Driver
hey Rudy, dork boy... the 2nd Amendment as no effect on hunting

pi$$ off
268 posted on 02/11/2007 8:07:40 PM PST by ezo4
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To: imahawk

Finally! Someone posts a viable couple of candidates that conservatives can get behind. Hunter/Gingrich or vice versa.
And don't give me that BS about Newt's baggage, as Rudy and McCain are carrying much more than he. Wait til he gets a chance to be in a debate with them and he will set things straight, with who really has the conservative bona fides.


269 posted on 02/11/2007 8:18:51 PM PST by Flyover Country
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To: oceanview
"yes, we might be able to "tell" who is a gang member - but we aren't going to be able to say "you don't look like you should get a carry permit, we don't like your haircut and tattoo". "

21 y/o, clean record, then he should get the permit. That's the way a just govm't and Freedom works. I don't see any criminal activity being done by permit holders anywhere that's not resulted in the permit being revoked, and those rare instances didn't involve shooting during criminal action. Ever read Lott's More Guns, Less Crime?

" "stop and frisk" ...other urban police forces will not do that,"

They do it all the time, as they see fit. I've been in felony stops in these places, for simply having an NRA sticker.

"because it put some fear into all these thugs carry guns,"

They were illegal. Then the citizens were disarmed, and left up to the mercy of both kinds of thugs. Remember Goetz?

"so they stopped carrying them."

No, most left town.

270 posted on 02/11/2007 8:19:43 PM PST by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani)
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To: oceanview
Are we seeing the advancement of conservative values now?

My opinion.......we are not.

Huge hike in non-war related discretionary spending
Adding billions to entitlement programs such as the new Rx drug benefit
Wide open borders/ amnesty for 20million illegals
Enormous trade imbalance

Are these conservative values.......I submit, they are not.

Just say a moderate or a liberal republican does get elected.

Would you be comfortable with amnesty for all these illegals?

How would you feel if the former mayor presented to congress some form of national gun control?

What about marriage redefined as same sex?

Is it ok to relax even further statutes governing abortion?
271 posted on 02/11/2007 8:20:57 PM PST by servantboy777
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To: Sub-Driver

"Gun control helped lower crime"
You continue to believe that, Rudi, you RINO.


272 posted on 02/11/2007 8:21:31 PM PST by BuffaloJack
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To: oceanview
If you lived in NYC, you'd know that this approach would not work here. It's fine in most other places - go ahead and use it. But in an urban environment built around public transportation, with almost zero "personal space" while interacting with fellow citizens, having everyone armed just won't work.

Setting aside the Constitutional argument right now for the sake of discussion: I live in an urban area, and the RKBA works here to prevent crime and help residents protect themselves.

But let's accept that because of its size and unique character, NYC requires very different governance than the rest of the country. Doesn't that mean, by definition, that Rudy's experience as NYC mayor isn't relevant to the experience he would need to lead the entire country (Texas and its loose gun laws included)?

273 posted on 02/11/2007 8:27:46 PM PST by ellery (The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away, for expedience, and by parts. - Edmund Burke)
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To: servantboy777

on abortion and gay civil unions - at best those are going to be decided by the states. most states that have put the gay issue to the voters, it has been defeated. abortion is one SCOTUS pick away from returning to the states as well. but if a Dem wins in 2008, forget those two issues - they are gone. Roe will remain in place, and the federal defense of marriage act will go.

The Rx program for medicare was a logical extension of it, given how prevalent drugs are to treat illnesses today.

the republican House was the only body standing in the way of amnesty - and enough conservatives "sent a message" in 2006, and shot themselves in the foot by helping to oust the one body that was blocking it. that's a perfect example of how the "cutting off your nose to spite your face" approach in politics doesn't work too well.


274 posted on 02/11/2007 8:30:32 PM PST by oceanview
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To: mr_hammer

I don't think RKBA is a social issue -- I'm a small government conservative with little interest in seeing the federal government meddle in social concerns, yet Constitutional issues such as the Second Amendment are central to me.

The problem is, social conservatives are a fair-sized segment, and small-government/fiscal conservatives are a fair-sized segment, but the two are often in opposition. Would it be possible to find common ground by electing a fiscally conservative president who would send social issues to the state level? Yes, that would preclude passing social conservative bills on the federal level, but it would also mean that federal-level liberal mandates would (inlcuding Roe) would be opposed. I'm interested in your thoughts.


275 posted on 02/11/2007 8:32:57 PM PST by ellery (The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away, for expedience, and by parts. - Edmund Burke)
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To: ellery

when he proposes federal gun control restrictions like NYC has - for everyone - then we'll talk.

the most likely outcome on this issue would be - the status quo. if Rudy were to be president, the status quo on the gun issue would be retained, I doubt it would move in either direction.

what has Bush done on the gun issue?


276 posted on 02/11/2007 8:33:55 PM PST by oceanview
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To: spunkets

they were "illegal guns" - yes, because they couldn't get permits for them. but allow an easy permit process in a place like NYC, and they would. oh sure, we'll revoke that permit after they conduct their first killing or robbery - once they are caught and convicted. again, that's not the expectation people have regarding effective urban policing.


277 posted on 02/11/2007 8:40:34 PM PST by oceanview
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To: oceanview
it sounds like most of the people on this thread - don't want any gun laws at all.

That's kinda what the 2nd Amendment is all about.

278 posted on 02/11/2007 8:43:47 PM PST by jmc813 (Please check out www.marrow.org and consider becoming a donor. You may save a life.)
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To: jmc813

even the NRA doesn't believe that, or won't dare test it in federal court.


279 posted on 02/11/2007 8:50:23 PM PST by oceanview
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To: oceanview
sure, its a great idea to give "law abiding" folks the right to carry a gun. how do you decide who the "law abiding" folks are? you can't. in an urban environment, if I could get a CCW permit in NYC, so could some 18 year old inner city youth gangbanger or MS13 member with no criminal record or reason to otherwise be excluded. now sure, that same person intent on misdeeds could get that gun illegally (and they do).

So basically, you don't trust minorities with guns.

280 posted on 02/11/2007 8:52:23 PM PST by jmc813 (Please check out www.marrow.org and consider becoming a donor. You may save a life.)
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