Libertarian ping! To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here.
Posted on 02/05/2007 6:19:33 PM PST by JTN
CLEVELAND -- Red-light cameras installed at Cleveland intersections have become controversial.
5 On Your Side chief investigator Duane Pohlman said flashes are oftentimes the only clue the cameras caught cars speeding or running red lights.
Confirmation arrives later as a ticket in the mail, with a $100 fine.
The cameras are triggering key questions before Ohio's highest court.
"We are starting to lose our freedom," one motorist said.
At the very least, motorists said these devices are just plain unfair.
"I think we should get rid of them," another motorist said.
For the past six months, 5 On Your Side has been investigating the red-light cameras and found, from the sophisticated electronics to the system that supports it, the cameras not only can make mistakes -- they do, Pohlman said.
NewsChannel5 spoke with Dave Hatala, a 5 On Your Side videographer.
"Something's wrong with the whole system," Hatala said.
He got a ticket in the mail saying he was speeding on Chester Avenue at East 71st Street. He was cited for going 48 mph in a 35 mph zone.
The only problem is that Hatala insisted he never went that fast
"This was wrong, and I'm willing to fight that," he said.
Along with his ticket, Hatala got pictures showing his van and another car that appeared to be going faster.
"I immediately could see they ticketed the wrong lane," Hatala said. "A car going faster than me that you can clearly see is overtaking me."
Could the ticket be a mistake?
To get answers, Pohlman went to Chris Butler, a math professor at Case Western University.
"If you know the distance and you know the time you can calculate the speed," Butler said.
Hatala brought the measuring device. Butler measured the location using markers from the pictures.
He determined Hatala's real rate of speed.
"Dave Hatala was traveling 40.5 mph," Butler said.
He also found the real speed for that other car, too -- 48 mph.
Hatala brought the findings to court to challenge his ticket.
"Becomes pretty clear that it wasn't your vehicle that was speeding," the judge said.
He didn't have to argue much. Pohlman said the court admitted the ticket was issued to the wrong car, in the wrong lane.
"So based upon the testimony provided we are going to find you not liable for this violation," the judge said.
Pohlman reported a different problem at that same location on Chester Avenue at East 71st Street.
Bill and Sue Faber of Massillon said they haven't been in Cleveland for six months, but the city sent them a ticket.
"No way we could be in Cleveland," Faber said.
"Do you have witnesses for that?" Pohlman asked.
"Yes, we do," Faber said.
Yet Cleveland sent the ticket showing a car speeding, but the plate belongs to the Faber's truck.
Pohlman said you can't read the license in the picture at all. He said it appears Cleveland guessed and sent the ticket anyway.
"I always thought we were always innocent until proven guilty and now I find it's guilty until I can prove I'm innocent," Faber said.
After NewsChannel5 got involved, the city backed off, writing a letter informing the Fabers that the city made a mistake.
"I thought it was ridiculous," Faber said.
NewsChannel5 has received hundreds of e-mails about the red-light cameras and Pohlman continues his investigation at 11 p.m.
Somebody tried that gag here.
They sent him a photograph of a bench warrant.
we need to adopt a loser pays for CRIMINAL court.
If a defendant is found not guilty they they SHOULD be reimbursed for their legal fees for WHATEVER lawyer they have hired.
ride the bus if you are that threatened.
If you are in a bus then you don't have to worry about other drivers. Why not pass a national speed limit of 20 mph? MANDATORY FULL FACE HELMETS FOR AUTOMOBILE DRIVERS?
This is about nusance for revenue plain and simple. They don't give a poop about you or your family. Redlight cameras are documented as causing more rear end crashes. In DC the cameras were caliberated with a fast yellow. Another was coded to always show a red at the time regardless of actual timing.
enjoy the bus.
Explain how a red light camera actually prevents someone from running a red light.
The DC incident is very very common.
You also have the abilty to "hard wire" the camera to always give a positive if it has been triggered.
IOW: if the shot is in reality close, the program automatically issues the time code a full second earlier to put the person in the red light. (you could even have a delay to take the second shot of the red light even though the person passed a red.)
The DC incident was over 3 second yellow lights.
There is also a significant constitutional issue since the private company is paid by the fine. (another reason for the DC fraud)
In law school year ONE criminal law we study how a judge may not be compensated by the fines he issues. Here we have a camera company acting as judge being compensated for the crimes in which they generate the evidence.
all: millions of dollars are on the profit line, follow the money folks.
red light cameras prevent by intimidation.
of course the intimidation now cause more rear end accidents and paralysis victims.
Nah, don't think it works that way.
But again, the key issue here is that the government is using a system that:
a) Gives lots of false positives (deliberately??)
b) Has serious Constitutional flaws
c) Gives every indication that the government sees it more as a source of revenue than anything else
If safety is the goal here, there are more effective ways of attacking the problem
Then let's see it.
The same way criminal penalties keep people from robbing banks.
Libertarian ping! To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here.
Here's one writer's analysis of this situation:
http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=20437
Read the article linked to in Post 93.
It was unconstitutional for you to have to prove your innocence.
At least everywhere I've been ticketed, it's "bail." You can pay the money and go to court to get it back, or plead guilty and surrender the money.
When you're ticketed on vacation, hundreds of miles from home, guess what 99% of the population will do. That's why they target cars with out-of-state tags. When I've gone to court for local traffic tickets, the cops usually don't show up -- for my case or the others in court at the same time -- unless there's an accident, and if the cop doesn't show the ticket is dismissed.
If you look closely, you will see that groanup signed up in 1999.
Which makes you a Nazi.
Yeah.
I'll say. He got a ticket in the mail saying he was speeding on Chester Avenue at East 71st Street. He was cited for going 48 mph in a 35 mph zone.... Hatala brought the measuring device. Butler measured the location using markers from the pictures. He determined Hatala's real rate of speed.
"Dave Hatala was traveling 40.5 mph," Butler said.
He also found the real speed for that other car, too -- 48 mph.
Hatala brought the findings to court to challenge his ticket.
"Becomes pretty clear that it wasn't your vehicle that was speeding," the judge said.
But a REAL judge would have found him speeding regardless (40.5 in a 35 mph zone)
It's like a linebacker who's trying to time the snap count, in order to blitz lol.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.