Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

My Year Inside Radical Islam
FrontPageMagazine.com ^ | January 31, 2007 | Jamie Glazov

Posted on 01/31/2007 5:39:03 AM PST by SJackson

Daveed Gartenstein-Ross discusses his climb into the heart of jihad – and his climb out.

 

Frontpage Interview's guest today is Daveed Gartenstein-Ross, a counterterrorism consultant. He frequently appears as an analyst on ABC, the Fox News Channel, MSNBC, al-Jazeera, and talk radio, and writes for publications that include Reader's Digest, Commentary, The Weekly Standard, and The Wall Street Journal Europe. Gartenstein-Ross's rise in the field has been aided by a very unusual background: born into a Jewish family, Daveed converted to Islam while in college, and his first job after college was with the Al Haramain Islamic Foundation, an international Wahhabi charity that proved to be an al-Qaeda financier. Daveed's new book, My Year Inside Radical Islam, documents his time working at Al Haramain.

Preview Image

FP: Daveed Gartenstein-Ross, welcome to Frontpage Interview.

 

Gartenstein-Ross: Thanks, Jamie. It's an honor to join you. I actually published my very first article about radical Islam in FPM. Although that was just a little over two years ago, it feels like ages have gone by since then.

 

FP: Tell us a bit about your youth and how you ended up converting to Islam.

 

Gartenstein-Ross: I had an idiosyncratic religious upbringing. My parents were New Age hippie Jews with syncretistic beliefs: when I was growing up, artwork of Jesus graced our living room and a small statue of Buddha stood in the backyard. My parents thought that truth and wisdom could be found in all spiritual traditions.

 

Some of my early debates with Christian friends triggered spiritual questions for me. I struggled most with the "liar, lunatic, or Lord?" argument first advanced by C.S. Lewis in his classic work Mere Christianity but popularized for college age readers by Josh McDowell. The argument was that there were only three possible things Jesus could be: a liar, a lunatic, or the Lord. Since Jesus claimed to be God in the New Testament, you had to either accept his divinity or else believe that Jesus had absolutely nothing to offer -- since he was either lying or deluded about an issue as fundamental as the nature of God. By the time I was a junior in college, I had a couple of brushes with death that made my spiritual questions particularly intense. I started to learn about Islam at that time, through a college friend, al-Husein Madhany. I felt myself attracted to the faith, and it seemed to answer the "liar, lunatic, or Lord?" argument by posing a fourth alternative: Jesus was a prophet with a close relationship with God, but he had never claimed divinity. Rather, his words were distorted over time.

 

FP: So what was the process of radicalization inside Al Haramain, the radical Islamic charity you worked for? And how did it happen that teachings that you once held as abhorrent eventually struck you as compelling?

 

Gartenstein-Ross: When I took the job, I assumed that I wouldn't see eye-to-eye with my coworkers on some spiritual matters, but that we could simply agree to disagree. Little did I realize that my ideas would instead fall into line with theirs. There were a number of reasons for this. I felt a great deal of peer pressure to accept radical conclusions. I complied more and more with external manifestations of the faith (growing a beard, eating only with my right hand, rolling my pants legs up above my ankles, refusing to pet a dog or shake hands with women) that were themselves not radical, but coupled with the prevalent teachings inside Al Haramain pushed me in a radical direction. The biggest factor, however, was that over time I became persuaded intellectually by the theological case advanced by my coworkers and the visiting scholars who frequently joined us.

 

FP: Can you give us some insights into other converts who became radicalized (i.e. Adam Gadahn, John Walker Lindh, etc.)? Are there parallels to your story?

 

Gartenstein-Ross: There are parallels to both Gadahn and Lindh. We all had fairly unusual religious upbringings and were looking for spiritual answers. Like both of them, one of the key elements in my radicalization was adopting a legalistic interpretation of the faith that became increasingly rigid. Raffi Khatchadourian's excellent New Yorker article on Adam Gadahn outlines his spiritual development. After his conversion, Gadahn joined a small Islamic "discussion group" that was quite legalistic. Zena Zeitoun, a black convert to Islam, told Khatchadourian: "Everything was haram [prohibited by Islamic law] to them in the United States. If they saw a girl walking down the street in a short skirt, that's haram. If they saw you with a beer bottle in your hand, that's haram. If they saw a man and a woman holding each other, that's haram. Everything was haram to them."

 

A key moment that, for me, was the bridge to accepting a fully legalistic interpretation of Islam was when I stopped listening to music -- something that many conservative Muslims regard as haram. This was not easy: I had loved music ever since I was a kid, and had an enormous CD collection. But after wrestling with the issue, I decided that I would stop listening to music, and even broke in half a favorite mixed tape from college. For Adam Gadahn, the moment that he stopped listening to music came very early in his spiritual development -- and it must have been very difficult for him, as he had been a death metal afficianado, and even a musician of sorts.

 

John Walker Lindh's fascinating Usenet postings (as doodoo@hooked.net) also reveal him becoming legalistic, as well as increasingly agitated by theological deviance. In July 1996, he asks in alt.religion.islam if musical instruments are actually haram. In May of the following year, he explodes at a Five Percenter (a member of an offshoot of the Nation of Islam that teaches that the black man is God) who claimed that the rapper Nas was a god: "Is Nas indeed a 'god'? If this is so, then why is he susceptable [sic] to sin and wrongdoing? Why does he smoke blunts, drink moet, fornicate, and make dukey music? Why is it if he is a 'god' that one day he will die? That's a rather pathetic 'god' if you ask me." By July 1997, Lindh was offering to sell his entire music collection.

 

FP: What are your thoughts about how radical leadership can drastically alter the dynamics in a Muslim community? Take, for example, the case of the community in Ashland, Oregon.

 

Gartenstein-Ross: Radical leadership can have a tremendous impact on the dynamics of the community. This happened in Ashland when the local group developed a relationship with the Al Haramain Islamic Foundation, and was dependent on Saudi money. A radical message was reflected in the literature that we distributed, and was amplified by the visiting scholars who would give sermons and teach classes. Members of Ashland's Muslim community who were there before the group became affiliated with Al Haramain tell me that local practices shifted in a markedly conservative direction after that connection was made.

 

Incidentally, there is still a Muslim community in Ashland. My understanding, based on discussions with local Muslims whom I trust, is that radical elements are no longer influential there.

 

FP: Share with us your climb out of radicalism and conversion to Christianity.

 

Gartenstein-Ross: If there's one thing that working for a Wahhabi charity can do for you, it is make you step back and rethink your religious views. In the summer of 2000, after my first year of law school, I found that I missed the tolerant, idealized version of Islam that I once practiced. But by this time my views on faith had shifted: I no longer saw the purpose of religion as forging a relationship with God that felt comfortable, but instead believed that I needed to truly understand the relationship that God wanted with me. I began that summer studying the Qur'an, the ahadith (Muhammad's recorded sayings and doings), and trying to revisit whether the moderate version of the faith that I once knew was indeed viable. Midway through the summer, during a stroll through Washington Square Park, I was struck by the realization that perhaps I hadn't found the truth in Islam. When the faith seemed to answer my spiritual questions, it was because those were the answers I had been looking for. It was then that I began to examine the arguments for Christianity with a far more open mind. I became a Christian before the end of the year.

 

FP: Do you have a story or two for us about how other people who became radicalized as Muslims have had to reconstruct their faith?

 

Gartenstein-Ross: Yes, there are a lot of people who have been radicalized who end up reconstructing their faith. Some leave Islam for another religion, as I did. Others reconstruct their faith and remain Muslim, but with a transformed practice. My college friend al-Husein Madhany drifted toward radical Islam at the same time I did. Today he remains a devout Muslim, but his practice of Islam is quite different. He again has a moderate practice, and I'm happy to say, is again the same friend who once meant so much to me. There's another Muslim with whom I discussed my book within the past few months who said that my story resonated with her: that she too at one point held radical views, but was able to reconstruct her faith and emerge with a moderate practice. These kind of discussions help give me hope.

 

FP: So what is the best way we can fight this terror war in an ideological sense? What is the most effective way we can help those Muslims who seek to fight the fanaticism within their religion?

 

Gartenstein-Ross: This is a critical question, one where I don't think the answer is obvious. In fact, I think the answer is both sufficiently non-obvious and also sufficiently important that I may devote my next book to exploring it.

 

Rather than attempt to prescribe at this point the best way to help Muslims fight fanaticism within their religion, I'll address the first part of your question: how do we fight the terror war in an ideological sense? There is a critical first step that most policymakers, analysts, and journalists haven't taken: understanding the importance of ideology to this conflict, and really seeking to understand the ideology of radical Islam. As the people charged with making decisions come to better understand this ideology, they will be able to adopt more informed policies. But almost five and a half years after 9/11, I'm disappointed that many critical decision-makers haven't developed even a basic understanding. The fact that important counterterrorism officials don't even know which groups are Sunni and Shia is indicative of the fact that many people charged with defending our national security are in fact committing professional malpractice.

 

FP: Daveed Gartenstein-Ross, thank you for joining Frontpage Interview.

 

Gartenstein-Ross: It has been a pleasure to join you, Jamie.

 

*

 

To read the Dinesh D'Souza-Jamie Glazov debate, click here.



TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: apesandpigs; infidels; islam; islamofascism; wot
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-35 next last

1 posted on 01/31/2007 5:39:04 AM PST by SJackson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

High Volume. Articles on Israel can also be found by clicking on the Topic or Keyword Israel. or WOT [War on Terror]

----------------------------

For those who might be interested, The Islamic Mein Kampf

2 posted on 01/31/2007 5:47:07 AM PST by SJackson (Let a thousand flowers bloom and let all our rifles be aimed at the occupation, Abu Mazen 1/11/07)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SJackson

Very interesting. I will watch for more about Daveed Gartenstein-Ross. Thank you for posting the interview.


3 posted on 01/31/2007 5:59:15 AM PST by syriacus (30 months in Korea => 30,000 US deaths. Average = 1,000 deaths per month under Truman.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: Baynative

Here is the Jewish version of the islamocrazy, from:

Headline News
Tuesday, January 30, 2007 by Staff Writer
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=178&nid=11361

Ultra-Orthodox modesty squad burns clothing

Ultra-Orthodox extremists continued to wage their immodest clothing war as they set ablaze women’s apparel they deemed impure.

The “clothes of impurity” were burned in an open square in Jerusalem as rabbis admonished the crowd.

“We will get rid of the tight clothes and the Holy One, Blessed be He, will place his mercy on us,” it was written on one of the signs held by the protestors. “Modesty is the only thing that needs to be corrected in our generation,” the rabbis clarified, saying this would solve the troubles of today. “We must overcome this hurdle,” they proclaimed.

The campaign for modesty offered women coupons to “authorized shops” to buy new apparel if they handed over their immodest clothing.

Clothing that is forbidden by the ultra-Orthodox rabbis include: Tricot shirts, Lycra shirts and skirts, open-collared shirts, short and tight skirts, skirts with a slit, skirts with a straight cut, long or bulky earrings, clothes and bags in loud, flashy colors, wigs that are too exclusive, transparent or colorful stockings and clunky shoes.

The crusade descended into violence as extremists attacked women who didn’t fit their criteria and caused damage to various clothing shops, ruining thousands of dollars worth of merchandise.


5 posted on 01/31/2007 6:11:27 AM PST by US admirer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: US admirer

Thanks for that US Admirer.

It's an instructive comparison, isn't it? It's notable that even at their worst, these Jewish fashion police don't appear to have raped and killed any 16-yr old girls nor strapped bombs to Downs Syndrome teenagers. There's something oddly likeable about them.


6 posted on 01/31/2007 6:51:39 AM PST by agere_contra
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: SJackson
...rolling my pants legs up above my ankles,...

That's a new bit of muzzie inanity to me.

Anyone have any info on what that is all about?

7 posted on 01/31/2007 7:19:55 AM PST by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SJackson
I felt myself attracted to the faith, and it seemed to answer the "liar, lunatic, or Lord?" argument by posing a fourth alternative: Jesus was a prophet with a close relationship with God, but he had never claimed divinity. Rather, his words were distorted over time.

So close...

8 posted on 01/31/2007 7:28:31 AM PST by papertyger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: agere_contra

LOL. Much more clever and well-reasoned (and effective) response than I would have given.

I just say "dittos."


9 posted on 01/31/2007 7:31:36 AM PST by MeanWestTexan (Kol Hakavod Lezahal)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: SJackson
The fact that important counterterrorism officials don't even know which groups are Sunni and Shia is indicative of the fact that many people charged with defending our national security are in fact committing professional malpractice.

Bump

10 posted on 01/31/2007 7:37:21 AM PST by Tribune7 (Conservatives hold bad behavior against their leaders. Dims don't.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: US admirer
Having a strict outlook on life isn't bad.

Blowing up other people for not sharing your outlook, however, is.

As long as these people were burning clothes they had purchased, or legally acquired, and were following local codes on open burning, they weren't doing anything wrong.

11 posted on 01/31/2007 7:42:24 AM PST by Tribune7 (Conservatives hold bad behavior against their leaders. Dims don't.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: SJackson

bump for later


12 posted on 01/31/2007 7:43:53 AM PST by diamond6 (Everyone who is for abortion has been born. Ronald Reagan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SJackson

A Jew has to be nuts or temporarily insane to go Muslim. I make a bit of an exception for Sufism because the way Sufism is practiced in the USA is hippy dippy New Age. They are harmless goofballs and many are Jewish. I still don't like to see it


13 posted on 01/31/2007 7:55:42 AM PST by dennisw (What one man can do another can do -- "The Edge")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SJackson

Interesting.

I've been coming around to a position that's backed up a little bit by this guy. I think the time is coming upon us when we'll have to expand the fight to an ideological level-- the theological level. It's risky, but I think ultimately its the only way to actually defeat terrorism as it grows out of the Islamic world.

We (the "West") have to take on Islam itself, directly and head-on. We will have to show that Islam itself, in particular Wahhabism, is a false religion. Radicalism will not be defeated until it no longer attracts the faithful.

This is not a mission for governments, either. Especially not the U.S. government. For the American government to take such a position would only confirm Wahhabism's Jihad within their own rhetoric. The American governments job is just to ruthlessly hunt down and kill the radicals just as effectively as they've been doing.

I see it as the job of the Church writ large, with calm assurance and forceful apologetics, face the enemy and agressively take them on at the spiritual level.

Just a thought. Still developing.


14 posted on 01/31/2007 7:56:43 AM PST by Ramius ([sip])
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: US admirer
Clothing that is forbidden by the ultra-Orthodox rabbis include: Tricot shirts, Lycra shirts and skirts, open-collared shirts, short and tight skirts, skirts with a slit, skirts with a straight cut, long or bulky earrings, clothes and bags in loud, flashy colors, wigs that are too exclusive, transparent or colorful stockings and clunky shoes.

I cannot for the life of me figure out how a wig can be exclusive (or otherwise).
15 posted on 01/31/2007 8:00:15 AM PST by Xenalyte (Anything is possible when you don't understand how anything happens.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Tribune7
Well if they did not attack other people who don't share their fanaticism and only did crazy things, I guess that would only make them crazy and not wrong but these nut-jobs don't stop there.

Actually they beat up women who don't sit on the back of the bus and throw bleach on women who wear immodest dress and stone the windshields of people who drive on the sabbath in their neighborhoods. Does that qualify as wrong?

16 posted on 01/31/2007 8:01:46 AM PST by US admirer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Xenalyte
Clothing that is forbidden by the ultra-Orthodox rabbis include: Tricot shirts, Lycra shirts and skirts, open-collared shirts, short and tight skirts, skirts with a slit, skirts with a straight cut, long or bulky earrings, clothes and bags in loud, flashy colors, wigs that are too exclusive, transparent or colorful stockings and clunky shoes.

I cannot for the life of me figure out how a wig can be exclusive (or otherwise).

Would mean the wig stands out to much. Does not easily blend in with the wigs the other ultra orthodox woman are wearing. I have a female cousin who wears such a wig. They moved to Israel

17 posted on 01/31/2007 8:04:07 AM PST by dennisw (What one man can do another can do -- "The Edge")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: dennisw

Is wig-wearing an ultra-Orthodox tenet?

And why "exclusive"? That has never been used to mean "loud" or "flashy" or "attention-getting."


18 posted on 01/31/2007 8:06:36 AM PST by Xenalyte (Anything is possible when you don't understand how anything happens.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: US admirer
JEWISH FUNDAMENTALISTS-->>Well if they did not attack other people who don't share their fanaticism and only did crazy things, I guess that would only make them crazy and not wrong but these nut-jobs don't stop there.

Actually they beat up women who don't sit on the back of the bus and throw bleach on women who wear immodest dress and stone the windshields of people who drive on the sabbath in their neighborhoods. Does that qualify as wrong?

You are making a vile comparison with the Islamic fundamentalists. 
What you have to ask yourself is how many of these Jewish extremists are there on this planet?
And do they kill maim and murder others?

There are many many many more Islamic crazies and they will kill you, destroy Israel and subvert Europe

Your dumb comparison is similar to equating Abu Ghraib with what Saddam did.

19 posted on 01/31/2007 8:09:39 AM PST by dennisw (What one man can do another can do -- "The Edge")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Ramius
Only a small minority of students from other countries ever get to see the inside of an American home. We live in a "low context" culture, where interpersonal relationships take a distant back seat to individual interests, such as watching TV.

Yet so many of these bright young people are friendly, and willing to be friends, if approached with sincerity. Hollywood has taught them that Americans are indifferent (or even hostile) to family and God. It's an eye-opener for them to be made welcome in a family that values both.

I am asking God to raise up thousands of home-school families that "adopt" muslim nations, study their language and culture, and befriend students from those countries. Many universities have "language partners programs" where you can coach someone in English, and work on your own Turkish, or Farsi, or Arabic.

20 posted on 01/31/2007 8:11:02 AM PST by TomSmedley (Calvinist, optimist, home schooling dad, exuberant husband, technical writer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-35 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson