Are the Right People Becoming Teachers? ( Teachers are NOT Professionals)

EdNews.org ^ | January 9,2007 | Martin Haberman

[wintertime]

(snip)

1. The practitioners know and can do things the public in general cannot do. They have a specialized body of knowledge.

2. The specialized body of knowledge practitioners have takes an extended period of time to learn.

3. The educators who prepare the practitioners are experts who agree upon the specialized body of knowledge practitioners must have.

4. Admission to a professional training program is highly selective.( snip).

6. Only members of the profession set the standards for licensure and certification.

7. The primary responsibility and loyalty of a professional is to serve the client and not simply the institution or governmental agency in which the practitioner may be employed.

8. Neither the public at large nor an employing institution may control the way in which professionals relate to their clients, or the treatments, methods or procedures they use.

9. Neither the public at large nor an employing institution may set the purpose, goals or objectives for the practitioner’s practice with clients.

10. The public at large does not decide how to evaluate professionals.

11. Only members of the profession can determine malpractice and dismiss or disbar practitioners.

12. Professionals determine the cost of their services.

19. Professionals are trained to serve clients with problems. By definition “professionals” do not seek to perform services to clients without problems.

21. Professionals share a code of ethics to which they commit and adhere. They cannot be directed to perform or not perform services for clients which conflict with their professional code.

The case that teaching does not meet any of these twenty one criteria can be readily made.

[SoftballMominVA]

I know dozens of private school teachers, and I can only think of who ever even sent a resume to a public school.

Well, I know you don't 'know' me, but I can tell you my experience with private vs. public

I was offered out of the blue a position to head up a newly formed learning disabilities department at a private school in our area. Tuition at this school runs between 9-12k a year (depending on grade). I was told that one of the advantages was that I would no longer need to maintain my certification and therefore save hundreds of dollars a year in extra classes. I asked why and was told that in the Commonwealth of Va, private school teachers did not need to adhere to certification standards. The salary offered to me was less than 1/2 of what I make in the public schools. Why? Well, because the private school doesn't have to have state qualified teachers. Two of the teachers at that school do not even have college degrees. Granted, these teachers do not teach core areas - PE and art. But they come cheap.

That is my experience, others in other states may have a different one.

BTW, there was an article in the WaPo recently discussing the salaries of private school principals and 'heads.' These people earn much more than a superintendent of a public school system. Typical salaries ranged from 300k to 500k with huge perks. Now we know where the tuition money is going.

[SoftballMominVA]

I work in a public school. Am I stupid, evil, or greedy?

[esoxmagnum]

You've hit the nail on the head with that post, Thanks.

[JenB]

I actually do believe that there should be no government regulation of homeschools. We can still compare the completed product - graduated students - with public and private ones if comparisons are important which I don't think they are. Homeschoolers can take the SAT or whatever else they need to get into college and the government can stay out.

Because I just don't understand how one can logically say "this far, no further". The government can make us take tests, but can't mandate curriculumn. Or can demand certain subjects be taught, but not how or the exact content. Can require one parent has a high school diploma, but not teacher certification. A certified teacher evaluating the child, but not a psychologist. Etcetera, etcetera. It is none of the government's business!

Child abuse situations I concede to the government because they have a beauracracy in place and because the optimal solution - grandparents, neighbors, and church stepping in - won't always work. But I'm talking about physical abuse, starving a child or beating him. Denying a child education (which I am firmly convinced only happens in a sitation that is objectively abusive anyway) cannot be a standard for abuse. What should happen in such a sitation? Extended family or church should step in. Yes I'm aware that this isn't a perfect world and that won't solve all cases but hard cases make bad law. I want the law to respect the rights of the 99.99% of the good parents, not be written to deal with the 0.01% of bad parents.

[ContemptofCourt]

your obnoxious nature and inability to relate to your fellow man tends to reduce your threads to the jokes they become.

I took your advice and looked at her posting history. You summation of it is quite accurate.

BTW, I doubt that she will be impressed by your JD (nor mine...did I mention I graduated magna cum laude?), as you did not have to take Calculus III (whatever that is) to earn the degree, and therefore you have not taken one of the core courses necessary to determine your true intelligence (apparently).

[LanPB01]

On a related note, I've found a number of people in higher education that seem to "look down" upon the jurist doctorate. I believe a lot of it stems from resentment of the fact that our doctorate degree can actually be used in the free market, and we have the potential to make more than, say, a person with a doctorate in sociology. These same people tend to look down on doctors of medicine as well, so I give their opinion all the weight it deserves.

[perseid 67]

Your flattery of home-schoolers is a Trojan horse through which you are trying to thrust bureaucratic intrusion on home-schoolers. Once the government is allowed to pick and choose who will be allowed to homeschool, no one will be allowed to homeschool.

Drug pushers will not educate their kids in public schools or home-schools. The public schools have never helped the children of criminals.

Goebbels and other socialists used similar techniques to destroy their enemies.You are using an extreme example to scare people who are ignorant and easily led.

Unfortunately, the public schools have produced many people who are easily duped by such tactics.

[wintertime]

It is difficult to respond to personal attack.

How did this come about?

In the beginning I was asked about my educational background, and I responded with the truth. (It was in response to being mockingly called a chiropractor). If you review these many threads, you will see that most often I am not the person that brings up the topic of my personal educational credentials, others do in an attempt to denigrate me personally.

If you also review the threads, you will see that many Freepers draw upon their personal work experience to make a point. It is for certain that ***teachers***do. You have in this post as well. Although I have not revealed my profession ( for personal safety reasons) I too do the same.

I see that you are not reticent to proclaim your high standing in the academic world or accomplishment. Should I declare you obnoxious?

So...Since you feel that my profession is of "questionable", what can I do to show that it is not "questionable". If I gave you the exact work that I do, someone with evil intentions could easily track me. I can only state that it is a profession that requires many more years of formal education after a bachelors degree than teaching. Only those ranking in the top 1 or 2% of intelligence are accepted, or could manage the massive academic work load. Admission to any of the professional schools is highly competitive.

I do not have a doctorate in government. I work with patients.

By the way, congratulations for you high standing in the academic world. This is an admirable accomplishment, and I would not call it "questionable".

[wintertime]

You'd have to spend some time reading Wintertime's forum posting history to appreciate it. She manages to slip in the fact she's earned a dubious doctorate degree into every thread she appears, appropriate or not. She then uses conversation skills best suited to a toddler to berate those who don't agree with her position.

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More personal attack.

[wintertime]

So when you paint with that broad of a brush, you include me in on it.
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Well...you insist that your government school is different. You insist that your daughter has never witnessed bullying. I suppose you have never witnessed it either.

If this is true, then you are not part of the problem.

[wintertime]

Well, because the private school doesn't have to have state qualified teachers. Two of the teachers at that school do not even have college degrees. Granted, these teachers do not teach core areas - PE and art. But they come cheap.

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Proof that teaching is a trade. An enthusiastic amateur can succeed admirably.

[wintertime]

I work in a public school. Am I stupid, evil, or greedy?

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I don't know you school. You say that it is a wonderful school.

[perseid 67]

Authoritarian bullies will always support each other.

[SoftballMominVA]

As I have said before, you are not allowed to use my daughter or her experiences in any of your posts. Ever. Without exception. Do it again and I will hit the abuse button. She is a minor and off limits to you. I have never, and will never, include your children in my posts and I demand the same courtesy. We can discuss our own experiences as adults and that is fine and acceptable. We do not attack or make implications about the children of posters. Ever.

That is not a request, it is a demand. She is now and forever will be off limits to you.

[wintertime]

Having the government schools supervise homeschoolers, is comparable to the fox guarding the hen house. There is a serious conflict of interest. Every child who does not enter the government school system nibbles away at the foundation of a government school worker's paycheck.

[wintertime]

But I'm talking about physical abuse, starving a child or beating him.

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Invariably, when a child dies or is seriously injured in these cases, there have been **numerous** reports made to the CPS by relatives, friends, and neighbors. Then after dozens of visits by social workers and formal reports documenting the physical and emotional abuse, only then does the MSM proclaim the child a "homeschooler". What a kicker!

[wintertime]

Authoritarian bullies will always support each other.
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Thank you, for your support.

[sam_paine]

The only way the public education system in this country is going to change is if the business community pushes the change. We know that won't happen as long as they can bring in highly educated people from overseas who will do the jobs that Americans weren't educated to perform.

Your retort is filled with so much irony that it is difficult to read with a straight face!

I am a business owner. I want to "improve our public education system."

I walk down to my local school district building and tell the Administrative Vice-Superintendent that I've got some plans for fixing his schools. He kicks me out.

I go to a Jr. High School with some electrical engineering materials to interest the students. I'm cited for safety violations for lasers and soldering irons (hot lead.)

I go to an Elementary School and talk to a teacher about ways to encourage kids to understand math. I'm arrested for being a white man on school grounds with no children of my own there....obviously a pervert.

Let me tell you something! The only way to reform GOVERNMENT education systems is to bring in the TRUST BUSTERS and break up the monopoly and let "Independent School Districts" be independent entities again where businesses (aka free market) -can- influence them.

[sam_paine]

The only way the public education system in this country is going to change is if the business community pushes the change. We know that won't happen as long as they can bring in highly educated people from overseas who will do the jobs that Americans weren't educated to perform.

Nice catch!

[sam_paine]

Ooops! I posted the wrong quote!

This is what I meant! You caught them goofing off!

HI....are you teachers off today?

Nice catch!