Posted on 01/26/2007 9:16:25 AM PST by AdamSmithWasRight
As I read the news day in and day out from my perspective of being on the inside looking out, I look at my own home and couldn't be any more embarrassed than I currently am. It has been compounded from 9/11 by constant images and stories in the media about the actions of the Muslim community.
I must admit to myself if I was on the outside looking in I would probably look at myself in the same way so many others do. If all I saw were nihilistic thugs raping, robbing, murdering, and littering the streets of the world with the bodies of innocent people I wouldn't know what else to think of this group of people for religion.
As I now sit inside of the United States I find myself looking at this house in two perspectives. At times from the inside looking out and wanting to escape for this image that has haunts me day in and day out but also at times from the outside looking in. It is these proud patriotic times when religion takes the passenger seat or well I should say, isn't even in the car, that I look at that house and think, "Don't you people get it???"
At moments like this I realize and force myself to accept the reality that the real problem here is the Muslim community itself. It is no longer the fundamentalsits or Al-Qaeda alone, rather the very community itself that has failed to deliver or even show an attempt to remedy this nihilistic ideology within their ranks. As an American but also as a Muslim I would like to convey my most sincere apologies although I know to most this are just empty words in light of the death and injury of so many. For most we have reached a point where apologies and words will do nothing but further agitate the situation. Rather what is needed is action.
It is this which I do recognize and wish deliver, but I realize that I can only do this with help from others. I would hope that the American people, my brothers and sisters, would not so easily give up on the Bush doctrine of changing the face of the middle east where this dangerous threat to world civility and humanity is found. If we hope to find change I believe we can only find it in the overthrowing and or absolute destruction of the very regimes and elements that support this authoritarinism from within their midst. As long as we hold on to the Bush doctrine I honestly believe that we can one day watch the purple fingers of freedom wave from Morocco to Indonesia.
Until that day, if it comes, I apologize my friends and ask you to stick with the President and his vision for a new middle east.
Yes, but according to Islam, it supersedes the Bible which is viewed as incomplete and imperfect.
Additionally, later passages in the Koran supersede those before them, wherever a conflict or disagreement occurs.
I think your last sentence addresses what people mean when they say the USA was founded on Judeo-Christian principles.
I would certainly agree that the USA was NOT founded on religious dogma.
That isn't at all what I was using that for. I was using it to illustrate a point...being American has historically meant as shorthand those things.
For goodness sake, I am not saying it is the Constitution! Believe me, I am much more a fan of Friedrich A. Hayek then I am of Franklin D. Roosevelt!
Well heck, since we are all dancing on the head of pins in here...We are actually a Constitutional Republic!
I thought any muslim who abandons Islam must be killed? He's called an apostate.....and they aren't tolerated unless they confess to return to Islam. Unless of course they lie about it in the name of Allah.....
I can agree with everything up until "Christian foundation. The were not an exclusive "Christian" foundation as they were a product of a small sub-set of the Christian world who happened to develop the Enlightenment philosophy (built on medieval English common law) upon which this nation was founded. Much of the Christian world in 1776 would not and did not tolerate those principles, and even here, we were a long time in truly enfranchising "all men" into the concept of the "self evident right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness".
This is a nation that happened to be founded BY Christians, but it was not founded FOR Christians alone.
To the Hebrew Congregation in Newport Rhode Island Gentlemen:
While I receive with much satisfaction, your Address replete with expressions of affection and esteem, I rejoice in the opportunity of answering you, that I shall always retain, a grateful remembrance of the cordial welcome I experienced in my visit to Newport, from all classes of Citizens.The reflection on the days of difficulty and danger which are past, is rendered the more sweet, from a consciousness that they are succeeded by days of uncommon prosperity and security. If we have wisdom to make the best use of the advantages with which we are now favored, we cannot fail, under the just administration of a good Government, to become a great and a happy people.
The Citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for having given to mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy: a policy worthy of imitation. All possess alike liberty of con-science and immunities of citizenship. It is now no more that toleration is spoken of, as if it was by the indulgence of one class of people, that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights. For happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection, should demean themselves as good citizens, in giving it on all occasions their effectual support.
It would be inconsistent with the frankness of my character not to avow that I am pleased with your favor-able opinion of my administration, and fervent wishes for my felicity. May the Children of the Stock of Abraham, who dwell in this land, continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other inhabitants, while every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree, and there shall be none to make him afraid. May the father of all mercies scatter light and not darkness in our paths, and make us all in our several vocations useful here, and in his own due time and way everlastingly happy.
George Washington
I think you can see from the author of this thread, that there are many who are afraid publicly. (It is common is closed quarters --- if you are a father with kids in some damn crack neighborhood, are you going to trust the police to protect you from the gang-bangers if you tell on them?)
We can ask for their courage, but we have the obligation to protect them and sadly, as you indicated, we have institutions here such as the ACLU who support the terrorists, not those being terrorized.
We need to find a way to give the moderates voice and expose the CAIR phonies for what they are.
Well, all I can say is take a look at your kids. Are you willing to speak out if their life is at risk? I ask because the 'crazies" would have no problem killing them if they can't get at you.
I think it will take more than asking individuals to speak. I'm not sure what the answer is but we need to find one.
Nope, how about next time you stand a little more closer to the keyboard and type a logical mature response as to why they can be both as opposed to the wonderful uneducated approach you selected.
We are on the same page in many ways. I too am a very imperfect Christian. Thanks for the great discussion. Have a wonderful weekend.
I hear what you are saying, but the founding fathers of this country did what they did, knowing full well they would swing if they were captured.
Our troops go into harms way to protect our rights. Their families are at risk of losing them.
Terrorism is a threat to civilization, not just western civilization, but all civilization. Until it becomes as taboo as incest or cannibalism, we will not be able to eradicate it.
People need to step up to the plate and do what is right, and that has to start with people taking sides in this. People ridicule President Bush for his black and white "with us or against us" stance, but that is what must be done. And it cannot be done with silence, and it cannot be done with statements like "I condemn the perpetrators of terrorism, but..."
The condemnation must be loud, it must be sustained, and it must be from all quarters. I appreciate the viewpoint of the gentleman who started this thread, as sincere as he seems to be. But he is a small voice in the wilderness.
Throughout history, people have had to take risky stands on issues, no matter the danger to their families or themselves. We can sit here safely, and be comfortably silent. But in time, and make no mistake, we will see car bombs going off on OUR cities, or worse if we do not act now.
Everyone always looks back after terrible events and says "I wish I had done such and such..." after the fact. After WWII, there were so many people who said "I wish I had actually listened to the rantings of that madman Hitler, instead of dismissing him as an inconsequental politician."
We have not had a nuclear device go off in an American city yet. No matter what we do, it may still happen. And let's not kid ourselves. I am not being hyperbolic here...if the 9/11 perpetrators had the capability, THEY would have used a nuclear device. But if people of good faith loudly and vocally condemn things that deserve that condemnation, then we can chip away at the pillars of support for those terrible things, and they may not come to pass.
A very good post you made. I have a brother-in-law who is unconditionally liberal along with his wife. He is a genius IQ even smarter than me (lol). 1600 SAT. Perfect score. Harvard, the works. He is now in his 60's. He challenged me to an e-mail debate. The issue was my daughter who had been at home alone with a friend - about age 12 - and thought she heard someone creeping downstairs. She shouted down: "I have a gun!".
In the e-mail debate I pointed out to my genius BIL that my daughter took the natural path, force. He said guns were bad. She should have said: "I'm a child, don't hurt me."
I responded: What if the bad guy had come into the house to rape the 12 year old, my daughter? What good would your response have done?
He never replied.
So, in relation to your black/white post, now that I have set this poor guy up as pitifully mis-informed, I will relate another incident.
While dining with the entire family (which is like a battalion) we were sitting together and they challenged me on something and I probably didn't give them a good backhand, but, then, he said: you have to understand, nothing is what it seems, nothing is black and white like Bush thinks, this table, for instance, if you put it under a microscope is not nearly as smooth as it seems. It would appear to be full of pockmarks and ridges.
I looked at the table and I looked at him.
"So let me get this straight, if your family is threatened by a piece of S((T with a pearl handled revolver, you want to call time out and x-ray the weapon."
Answer: "We don't care what you say. We don't have to listen to you. We are not interested in what you have to say."
Fantastic post. Thanks.
Sigh. You poor person. I have a Sister and Brother in Law who are not just social liberals, but believe in a lot of Black Helicopter stuff. The Triads and all that.
Fortunately, they keep it to themselves, so we are on good terms.
See...that is the difference. THEY are moral relativists, while you and I are closer to moral absolutionists. We DO believe there is good and evil, and the difference between the two is NOT where you live or what party you belong to.
The world stage is like a giant poker game. Bluff, raise, see. It is nothing more. Sure, there are a lot of things behind the scenes and a lot of nuances. But when you are POTUS like Bush, the only way to approach is as if you have just anted and your whole bank account is on the line. THAT's the way it works. Absolutes. Right, wrong. Good, bad. Anything else is noise.
If i'm not mistaken Sura 8 ayyat 12 refers to the Battle of Badr as described in ayyat 10-12. Aside from that, how is Islam infringing upon your rights? Islam is simply an idea. It's a faith, only people can infringe upon your rights not an idea. Your opinion about any religion is fine but let's be clear about what is infringing what and I don't see Sharia law or Islam forced down anyones throat here in the U.S.
"As an American but also as a Muslim"
You cannot be an American and also a muslim.
At least he identifies himself as first an American, and not a hyphenated one at that.....
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