Embarrassed

January 27, 2007 | AdamSmithWasRight

[AdamSmithWasRight]

As I read the news day in and day out from my perspective of being on the inside looking out, I look at my own home and couldn't be any more embarrassed than I currently am. It has been compounded from 9/11 by constant images and stories in the media about the actions of the Muslim community.

I must admit to myself if I was on the outside looking in I would probably look at myself in the same way so many others do. If all I saw were nihilistic thugs raping, robbing, murdering, and littering the streets of the world with the bodies of innocent people I wouldn't know what else to think of this group of people for religion.

As I now sit inside of the United States I find myself looking at this house in two perspectives. At times from the inside looking out and wanting to escape for this image that has haunts me day in and day out but also at times from the outside looking in. It is these proud patriotic times when religion takes the passenger seat or well I should say, isn't even in the car, that I look at that house and think, "Don't you people get it???"

At moments like this I realize and force myself to accept the reality that the real problem here is the Muslim community itself. It is no longer the fundamentalsits or Al-Qaeda alone, rather the very community itself that has failed to deliver or even show an attempt to remedy this nihilistic ideology within their ranks. As an American but also as a Muslim I would like to convey my most sincere apologies although I know to most this are just empty words in light of the death and injury of so many. For most we have reached a point where apologies and words will do nothing but further agitate the situation. Rather what is needed is action.

It is this which I do recognize and wish deliver, but I realize that I can only do this with help from others. I would hope that the American people, my brothers and sisters, would not so easily give up on the Bush doctrine of changing the face of the middle east where this dangerous threat to world civility and humanity is found. If we hope to find change I believe we can only find it in the overthrowing and or absolute destruction of the very regimes and elements that support this authoritarinism from within their midst. As long as we hold on to the Bush doctrine I honestly believe that we can one day watch the purple fingers of freedom wave from Morocco to Indonesia.

Until that day, if it comes, I apologize my friends and ask you to stick with the President and his vision for a new middle east.

[pollyannaish]

That is a distinction lost on many I'm afraid. And here I thought all those hours reading primary sources, and stacks of books piled in the basement to hold up the Lego creations and Hot wheels tracks, were never going to be used properly again. ;-)

[presidio9]

It is the Muslim faith having a problem with a true Muslim being an American.

Ignorant oversimplification. There are many sects of Islam. Saying all Muslims are radical or have a problem with America is like saying all Christians are snake handlers.

[StructuredChaos]

It is unbelievable. It is unbelievable that some here presume to deny this Muslim his membership in the community we enjoy as Americans. And I think it beyond the pale for some here to question this gentleman's loyalty to America.

Unlike many of you, who state that a Muslim cannot be an American, this Muslim has earned the right to call himself an American. He has, by virtue of his post, as we all know the case to be, alienated himself from a substantial portion of the Muslim community. Moreover he has emblazoned a scarlet letter upon himself which marks him not just for ostracism but for death. Think about that before branding him as unfit and rejecting him.

Like Christianity, Islam is a great force and has the capacity to unify, focus and motivate billions. To cut Islam out of a Muslim is to remove his spirit and moral fiber. I think it much wiser to avoid the wholesale lobotomization of Muslims and instead to work to channel and reform such spirit and morality into impassioned Americana. You cannot stand against Islam as one cannot stand against the force of the Mississippi. But you can turn it and by doing so harness its great energy.

Many forget the countless bloody struggles by secular societies to harness or accommodate Christianity and vice versa. But, the backbone of what made America great, are the moral precepts which are central tenents of the Christian Faith.

I'm not naive. I am the first to scrutinize Muslims. I am a zealous supporter of the war in Iraq and only find fault in the fact that we have not leveled Iran. I was the first to make my Muhammad Cartoon shirt because I find censorship abominable. And, Yes I understand we have an awesome military and nuclear arsenal and that we could in fact stand against the river I mentioned above through the waging of atomic/biological/chemical warfare. But this will never happen. Yes I agree that Islam as currently practiced is incompatible with civilized society as I see it. Yes, I obviously don't believe in moral relativism. Yes I am aware that certain teachings in the Koran are antithetical to Western Democracy. But, having said all this, I'd note that if you think the Old Testament does not also contain such things then you have not read it. And if you think that Christianity was always tame then you have not read your history.

As Christianity has changed such that it now exists in a symbiotic relationship with Democracy so too can Islam. As the Yoga professor, who I never had, once never taught me, you must turn the great force of your opponent and put it to your uses.

That said, the only way to transform Islam is to garner its respect. Islam respects the sword and the strong. Therefore the first matter at hand is the non pc waging of war. By all appearances America is incapable of doing this. For this I wish to thank the democrats and their msm allies for making us look like Pansy's.

[presidio9]

I do agree with your remark that apologies are too little, too late, unless the apologies are followed by action by more than a few scattered Muslims.

I DO agree with the sentiment that Muslims in general, and American Muslims in particular have not done enough to denounce some of the more recent and disgusting actions that Muslims have taken. I'm not saying that Christians and Jews don't have things to apologize for from time to time. Just that your silence adds fuel to some of the uglier sentiments that we have witnessed here.

[Jeffrey_D.]

I just want to Thank you for starting this thread for a number of reasons. Most importantly, you have exposed some less than admirable fellow posters.

Good luck with your studies, I'm sure your going to find greatness.

Jeff

[rattrap]

There's apparently no restriction on being an American and an asshole though.

[Nathan Zachary]

Separation of church and state is a cannon of the Church, not an American concept. It came here along with the first Americans, who were Christians. Freedom of religion was not freedom FROM religion, it was meant as freedom for all denominations of Christianity to practice without prejudice, that there be no interference by government on any church establishment, Not meaning "the establishment of any church in government". They stepped of the boat carrying their Gospels, not Korans or any other text. It isn't hard to see the intent, because those that wrote it were strongly Christian themselves. Muslims, Buddhists, Hindu's weren't even a passing thought at the time.

[Aurorales]

No, not ignorant, far from it. Maybe I did simplify it but I chose to.
A true Muslim will have problems with our laws and belief system.
From my reading on the subject of Muslims, this is what I believe.

[Nathan Zachary]

"It basically says that if you want to worship a Golden Calf, Congress will not interfere with your choice or force you to worship or support any particular faith."

Doesn't say that at all. All it says is that no one (of the Christian churches) ie Catholic, protestant, Anglican, will have favor over the other. It's freedom OF religion, not FROM religion. And government will not interfere with the church.

[presidio9]

Either you are lying, or you are just ignorant. Which is it?

"In his autobiography, Jefferson recounted with satisfaction that in the struggle to pass his landmark Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom (1786), the Virginia legislature "rejected by a great majority" an effort to limit the bill's scope "in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan." George Washington suggested a way for Muslims to "obtain proper relief" from a proposed Virginia bill, laying taxes to support Christian worship. On another occasion, the first president declared that he would welcome "Mohometans" to Mount Vernon if they were "good workmen" (see page 96). Officials in Massachusetts were equally insistent that their influential Constitution of 1780 afforded "the most ample liberty of conscience … to Deists, Mahometans, Jews and Christians," a point that Chief Justice Theophilus Parsons resoundingly affirmed in 1810."

Source: The Library Of Congress

[presidio9]

A true Muslim will have problems with our laws and belief system. From my reading on the subject of Muslims, this is what I believe.

So what? I am a Catholic. I reject Roe V. Wade. Does that make me unAmerican?

[Nathan Zachary]

There are TWO main secs, three if you count Sunni/wahabism. All others are not considered Islam and are apostates by those three. They are what 90% of all Muslims belong to.

Except for a few sura's in the Koran and a few hadith, they all read basically the same Koran as well.

The other secs do not add up to much.

[Jeffrey_D.]

You're good..........!!!!

[jcb1379]

Re-read what I said. We are a "Christian nation" insomuch as the majority of our populace is Christian. Germany is a "Lutheran nation," England an "Anglican nation," Pakistan a "Muslim nation," China a "Buddhist nation," and so on and so on. We are not a LEGALLY Christian nation, as the Christian religion is not codified in law. We are a SOCIALLY Christian nation, as the majority of our population is Christian.

[jcb1379]

Ah, c'mon, you are supposed to use reinforced papertowel rolls for structural support! Thataway, your books can hold open stubborn doors or even out wobbly tables!

[jcb1379]

Excellent rebuttal.

[Nathan Zachary]

Really? Seems that is someone narritive you've posted, not Jeffersons Autobiograghy.

[jcb1379]

Doesn't say your take on it either; simply says that Congress can't make any law favoring or disparaging any religion. SO, if I want to worship a golden calf, Congress can't encourage it nor can Congress deny my right to do so. Thus the original statement stands.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." i.e. Congress will not establish a national religion, nor will they prevent any religion from practicing.

[Ditto]

"nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof" (i.e. worshiping Golden Calfs if you choose)

[pollyannaish]

Oops. I'll take the penalty for improper use of equipment. :-)

I'm out of here, but I see I'm leaving the place in stellar hands.

Have a good one.