Posted on 01/09/2007 5:52:35 PM PST by joan
The thread were you bent over backwards to claim that the IRA have no interest in overthrowing the democratically elected government of Ireland, despite the fact it's a veiw held by our Justice minister and the leading Sunday broadsheet... sure.
Fortunately, De Valera WAS NOT Ireland. It is to their credit, and not through an fondness for England, that so many Irish volunteered to fight Nazi Germany.
I often wonder what would have been had Michael Collins not been murdered. I think Ireland would have played a significant role in the Nazi defeat...and the six counties would have returned to the nation.
You wrote:
"Of course, vladimir998 thinks it's not good enough!"
Considering the fact that 49,000 Irish died in WWI, the fact that only 40,000 (now 60,000) served in WWII doesn't impress me much. Then again that WWI figure may include N. Ireland as well.
bump for later
It has been suggested that the 1916 Rising screwed up that promise, but who knows.
Fortunately, De Valera WAS NOT Ireland. It is to their credit, and not through an fondness for England, that so many Irish volunteered to fight Nazi Germany.
Indeed, the Opposition Leader, James Dillon, questioned De Valera's decision to remain neutral, I guess from that alone you can gauge that a large section of the population did in fact want to go to war against the Axis.
I often wonder what would have been had Michael Collins not been murdered. I think Ireland would have played a significant role in the Nazi defeat...and the six counties would have returned to the nation.
The bullet that changed Irish history... Dev has blood on his hands somehow, at least historians agree that he in the very least knew about the assassination attempt beforehand.
I'm sure WWI figures refer to the whole island of Ireland, and the population of southern Ireland fell considerably between the Wars.
Yes, there were higher numbers of volunteers in WWI, 40,000 is still a good figure (I didn't say 60,000, some estimates say that, I quoted a conservative figure.).
Ah, I see. I wonder then what the figures are after the US entered the War? I can imagine a lot of Irish immigrants joined up.
What amazes me is so many modern IRA enthusiasts refuse to accept the fact that the Irish Republican Army disbanded when the flag of Ireland was raising in Dublin.
The splinter Provisional Wing refused the peace and launched their illegitimate war of terror. Unfortunately, what they've done will forever soil the truth and honor of the real IRA.
Belfast was bombed by the Germans in 1941 with much damage and human losses. DeValera sent firemen from the Republic to help out those from Northern Ireland who'd been working overtime.
Had Dublin been bombed, as Belfast was, it could well have toppled the government, and the Republic itself.
Moreover, the Irish would naturally have wondered if the British would have kept their promise and whether Churchill or his successor could have gotten the Ulster Protestants to go along with the deal.
So while we can wish that DeValera had acted otherwise and taken the offer, he had his reasons for not doing so, however much we might disagree ourselves in hindsight.
NOBODY gives a War and not invite the Irish ;^)
The cables between Roosevelt and Churchill concerning US airbases and anti-sub naval ports in the Republic State are still classified.
And Hitler never respected Ireland's neutrality as far as ships at sea. They were sunk without warning.
I believe he said so in 1966(?)
What amazes me is so many modern IRA enthusiasts refuse to accept the fact that the Irish Republican Army disbanded when the flag of Ireland was raising in Dublin.
Yes, the offical Irish name for the Irish Defence Forces is 'Óglaigh na h-Eireann', the IRA refer to themselves by the same name - they basically consider themselves a shadow government, in fact, the current IRA ceasefire is a tactical move to improve electoral success in the Republic, thus furthering their aims of overthrowing Irish democracy.
The splinter Provisional Wing refused the peace and launched their illegitimate war of terror. Unfortunately, what they've done will forever soil the truth and honor of the real IRA.
They are a disgrace to the people of Ireland!
Yes... we have a reputation when it comes to wars! ;)
I believe Hitler was planning to invade Ireland, but called it off at the last minute for whatever reason.
I heard something like that before but nobody seemed to know much about it. It's just hard to tell because of the date the card was sent.
IT,
You wrote: "The thread were you bent over backwards to claim that the IRA have no interest in overthrowing the democratically elected government of Ireland, despite the fact it's a veiw held by our Justice minister and the leading Sunday broadsheet... sure."
In case you didn't know, disagreeing over your interpretation of the facts, or invention of "facts" doesn't make me a sympathizer with ANYONE. And as I said, you already admitted once you were wrong when you falsely accused me of something. You have shown up in several threads where I had not posted to you just to make this bizarre and completely false accusation.
I don't know what your problem is, but get over yourself.
It is your favorite ploy to pretend that people who disagree with you are pro-IRA. On Feb. 25, 2006 I posted the following in response to something your wrote. I re-post it here only so everyone can see what you are like. Notice, I make no mention whatsoever about the IRA in the following: "Can't compare Orangemen to Nazis? Nazis oppressed Catholics. So did Orangemen. Nazis loved to bully their enemies in the streets with parades and brawls. So do the Orangemen. Nazis loved to remind their defeated foes who was boss through public acts of humiliation. So do the Orangemen. Nazis were bigots. So are the Orangemen. Granted, the comparison is limited, but it works within reason."
I said nothing about the IRA in that post. NOTHING. That was my very first post in that thread as well. How did you respond? This way (and this was your entire post; I left out nothing): "I don't recall a genocide in Northern Ireland, and the Famine wasn't genocide. Go to somewhere else if you want to defend the IRA!!"
I never even mentioned the IRA at all anywhere in my post and that was my first post in the thread!!! You automatically assumed I must be pro-IRA because I dared to disagree with you about the Orangemen. That's how you operate. As soon as someone disagrees with you you lash out that they are supporters of the IRA!!!
I also didn't mention the IRA in my follow up response to you either! Even then I had to point out to you, because you made up what I didn't say: "Did I ever once say the two were related? If you're going to attack what I say wouldn't it help to actually start with what I did say rather than just imagine something?"
And I had no problems admitting exactly what the IRA had done either: "And yes, they most certainly have killed 2,000 people in Ireland and elsewhere."
And again, "The IRA has murdered those who get in the way of its larger enterprise (making war on the Brits) and its subsidiary enterprises (gun running, smuggling, illegal businesses of all kinds, political opponents, Protestant thugs, innocent Protestants whose deaths can be exploited, etc)."
You later admitted to me that you were wrong to accuse me in another thread -- about what I no longer recall.
Yet, your stupid attacks against me continue.
Why do you lie?
Pyss-poor reasons.
De Valera seems to have been pro-Nazi, or at least pro-German, which after 1939 was the same thing. He deserves to be condemned by history.
Yes, I admit I got it wrong on that previous occassion, I got my wires crossed, it wasn't a deliberate lie, my apologies on that.
But, I don't see you unequivocally condemn all IRA actions, if you can do that, then I'll apologise for that.
IT,
You wrote:
"Yes, I admit I got it wrong on that previous occassion, I got my wires crossed, it wasn't a deliberate lie, my apologies on that."
Thanks, but with the continued lies on your part that seems like a very insincere apology. Empty and meaningless. Read on and you'll see what I mean.
"But, I don't see you unequivocally condemn all IRA actions, if you can do that, then I'll apologise for that."
Wait a minute. I have to do something so that you won't lie about me? Why don't you just not lie about me instead? Seriously, you are so full of it! I have to satisfy you so that you won't lie about me? Are you kidding me? YOU'RE LYING ABOUT WHAT I DO AND SAY!!!!! What part of that do you not understand?
It is wrong, immoral and indecent to lie. You are lying about me by saying that I am pro-IRA or an IRA defender. That's a lie!!! You wrote and repeat that lie based on exactly NOTHING but your tendency to label ANYONE who disagrees with you as pro-IRA. And now I have to satisfy you so that you won't lie about me?
Do you see where I might have a problem with the idea that I have do ANYTHING so that you'll stop lying about me?
Where the hell do you come up with this crap?
If I were to lie about you cheating on your wife, would it make any sense for me to insist you denounce adultery BEFORE I stop lying about you?
IT'S A LIE!!! What part of that do you not understand?
I called the IRA murderers - because they are murderers. That wasn't enough to satisfy you? Oh, no! I must satisfy Irish Thatcherite or else he won't stop lying about me!
Irish Thatcherite, just stop lying. I don't need your apology. It would be meaningless from you anyway. I would have absolutely no reason to believe it is sincere. Anyone who can repeatedly lie about a person and then demand that the person he has lied about must satisfy HIM FIRST or else he won't stop lying or won't apologize, isn't worth getting an apology from.
I unequivocally condemn all IRA terrorist actions. Whether they call themselves the INLA, the Provos, or whatever, I absolutely and positively condemn all terrorism, all murders.
I didn't write that to satisfy you Irish Thatcherite. I wrote that simply so I could say the following without any hint of doubts or second thoughts in my conscience:
Take your insincere apology and go to hell, Irish Thatcherite. You're a liar.
I apologise anyway, even though you still accuse me of lying, an honest mistake isn't a lie.
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