Posted on 01/09/2007 5:52:35 PM PST by joan
A NAZI war criminal given asylum in Ireland after the second world war lived here under an assumed name approved by Eamon de Valeras government, according to new research.
The Nazi collaborator was advised by de Valera to continue using an alias so that if the French government asked if he was in Ireland, the taoiseach could truthfully answer no.
Célestin Lainé was leader of the Bezen Perrot, a Waffen SS unit, and responsible for the torture and murder of civilians in occupied Brittany. He joined the SS when the Germans recruited local help and took command of the region, ordering the torture and execution of resistance fighters who had once lived alongside him.
In 1944, as the allies liberated Brittany, many Nazi collaborators fled France. Some of those captured were found in possession of letters of recommendation written in English and addressed to the Irish consulate in Paris.
In 1947 word reached Lainé that the Irish government was prepared to grant him asylum. In an interview with RTE to be broadcast this week, Dan Leach of the University of Melbourne reveals that the former head of the Breton Nationalist Party met de Valera to discuss Lainé.
De Valera advised him (that Lainé should) continue using his alias so that if the French asked him if Lainé was in the country he could truthfully answer no, Leach said. Lainé kept a low profile in Ireland until his death in 1983.
Another Nazi to take advantage of the soft approach of the Irish government was Andrija Artukovic, who was responsible for the death of 1m people in Croatia. Cathal OShannon, who has researched Irelands treatment of the Nazis after 1945, has discovered that there is a file on Artukovic in the Department of Foreign Affairs but the government has refused to release it.
Victims in Artukovics camps died from a mixture of hard labour, starvation and poisoning. He had a particular penchant for poisoning children and enjoyed having his picture taken with dead bodies.
Artukovic worked for Hitler as the minister for the interior in Croatia. He arrived in Ireland in 1947 after being referred by a Franciscan church in Switzerland and lived under the assumed name Alois Annick in Rathgar, south Dublin.
After gaining an Irish identity card he left for America in 1948 and settled in California, where he worked as a book keeper.
It is strange that a man responsible for a million deaths could live quietly here with nobody asking who he is or how he got here, OShannon said. In Rathgar he was saved from allied vengeance and prosecution.
Yugoslavia demanded Artukovics extradition in the 1950s and after 30 years of legal wrangling he was sent back to his homeland and sentenced to death. He died in 1988 in prison.
Brian Girvan, a historian, says de Valera was well aware of the extermination of Jews by Nazis during the war but still identified with Hitlers army.
He never gave an unqualified position to the Allies. He was not going to say that we wont allow (Nazis) into Ireland. There was an opinion in Ireland that those who were executed were in the same way as Irish nationalists had been, Girvan said.
He saw the Nazis as a nationalist regime that represented the German people to a certain extent. His stance doesnt make him pro-Nazi but he was very narrow in his focus.
In a letter to de Valera in 1944, David Gray, the then US representative in Ireland, demanded that Ireland refuse refuge to Nazi war criminals. De Valera was furious and saw the demands as America trying to tamper with Irelands new sovereignty.
During the 1970s it emerged that Pieter Menten, a Dutchman responsible for the deaths of hundreds of Jews in Poland, was dividing his time between Holland and Waterford, where he had a large country home at Mahon Bridge.
Locals were stunned in 1976 when Menten was arrested, tried and, in 1980, sentenced to 10 years in prison for war crimes. When he was released he believed he would live out his days in Ireland but Garret Fitz-Gerald, the then taoiseach, barred him from the country.
The thread were you bent over backwards to claim that the IRA have no interest in overthrowing the democratically elected government of Ireland, despite the fact it's a veiw held by our Justice minister and the leading Sunday broadsheet... sure.
Fortunately, De Valera WAS NOT Ireland. It is to their credit, and not through an fondness for England, that so many Irish volunteered to fight Nazi Germany.
I often wonder what would have been had Michael Collins not been murdered. I think Ireland would have played a significant role in the Nazi defeat...and the six counties would have returned to the nation.
You wrote:
"Of course, vladimir998 thinks it's not good enough!"
Considering the fact that 49,000 Irish died in WWI, the fact that only 40,000 (now 60,000) served in WWII doesn't impress me much. Then again that WWI figure may include N. Ireland as well.
bump for later
It has been suggested that the 1916 Rising screwed up that promise, but who knows.
Fortunately, De Valera WAS NOT Ireland. It is to their credit, and not through an fondness for England, that so many Irish volunteered to fight Nazi Germany.
Indeed, the Opposition Leader, James Dillon, questioned De Valera's decision to remain neutral, I guess from that alone you can gauge that a large section of the population did in fact want to go to war against the Axis.
I often wonder what would have been had Michael Collins not been murdered. I think Ireland would have played a significant role in the Nazi defeat...and the six counties would have returned to the nation.
The bullet that changed Irish history... Dev has blood on his hands somehow, at least historians agree that he in the very least knew about the assassination attempt beforehand.
I'm sure WWI figures refer to the whole island of Ireland, and the population of southern Ireland fell considerably between the Wars.
Yes, there were higher numbers of volunteers in WWI, 40,000 is still a good figure (I didn't say 60,000, some estimates say that, I quoted a conservative figure.).
Ah, I see. I wonder then what the figures are after the US entered the War? I can imagine a lot of Irish immigrants joined up.
What amazes me is so many modern IRA enthusiasts refuse to accept the fact that the Irish Republican Army disbanded when the flag of Ireland was raising in Dublin.
The splinter Provisional Wing refused the peace and launched their illegitimate war of terror. Unfortunately, what they've done will forever soil the truth and honor of the real IRA.
Belfast was bombed by the Germans in 1941 with much damage and human losses. DeValera sent firemen from the Republic to help out those from Northern Ireland who'd been working overtime.
Had Dublin been bombed, as Belfast was, it could well have toppled the government, and the Republic itself.
Moreover, the Irish would naturally have wondered if the British would have kept their promise and whether Churchill or his successor could have gotten the Ulster Protestants to go along with the deal.
So while we can wish that DeValera had acted otherwise and taken the offer, he had his reasons for not doing so, however much we might disagree ourselves in hindsight.
NOBODY gives a War and not invite the Irish ;^)
The cables between Roosevelt and Churchill concerning US airbases and anti-sub naval ports in the Republic State are still classified.
And Hitler never respected Ireland's neutrality as far as ships at sea. They were sunk without warning.
I believe he said so in 1966(?)
What amazes me is so many modern IRA enthusiasts refuse to accept the fact that the Irish Republican Army disbanded when the flag of Ireland was raising in Dublin.
Yes, the offical Irish name for the Irish Defence Forces is 'Óglaigh na h-Eireann', the IRA refer to themselves by the same name - they basically consider themselves a shadow government, in fact, the current IRA ceasefire is a tactical move to improve electoral success in the Republic, thus furthering their aims of overthrowing Irish democracy.
The splinter Provisional Wing refused the peace and launched their illegitimate war of terror. Unfortunately, what they've done will forever soil the truth and honor of the real IRA.
They are a disgrace to the people of Ireland!
Yes... we have a reputation when it comes to wars! ;)
I believe Hitler was planning to invade Ireland, but called it off at the last minute for whatever reason.
I heard something like that before but nobody seemed to know much about it. It's just hard to tell because of the date the card was sent.
IT,
You wrote: "The thread were you bent over backwards to claim that the IRA have no interest in overthrowing the democratically elected government of Ireland, despite the fact it's a veiw held by our Justice minister and the leading Sunday broadsheet... sure."
In case you didn't know, disagreeing over your interpretation of the facts, or invention of "facts" doesn't make me a sympathizer with ANYONE. And as I said, you already admitted once you were wrong when you falsely accused me of something. You have shown up in several threads where I had not posted to you just to make this bizarre and completely false accusation.
I don't know what your problem is, but get over yourself.
It is your favorite ploy to pretend that people who disagree with you are pro-IRA. On Feb. 25, 2006 I posted the following in response to something your wrote. I re-post it here only so everyone can see what you are like. Notice, I make no mention whatsoever about the IRA in the following: "Can't compare Orangemen to Nazis? Nazis oppressed Catholics. So did Orangemen. Nazis loved to bully their enemies in the streets with parades and brawls. So do the Orangemen. Nazis loved to remind their defeated foes who was boss through public acts of humiliation. So do the Orangemen. Nazis were bigots. So are the Orangemen. Granted, the comparison is limited, but it works within reason."
I said nothing about the IRA in that post. NOTHING. That was my very first post in that thread as well. How did you respond? This way (and this was your entire post; I left out nothing): "I don't recall a genocide in Northern Ireland, and the Famine wasn't genocide. Go to somewhere else if you want to defend the IRA!!"
I never even mentioned the IRA at all anywhere in my post and that was my first post in the thread!!! You automatically assumed I must be pro-IRA because I dared to disagree with you about the Orangemen. That's how you operate. As soon as someone disagrees with you you lash out that they are supporters of the IRA!!!
I also didn't mention the IRA in my follow up response to you either! Even then I had to point out to you, because you made up what I didn't say: "Did I ever once say the two were related? If you're going to attack what I say wouldn't it help to actually start with what I did say rather than just imagine something?"
And I had no problems admitting exactly what the IRA had done either: "And yes, they most certainly have killed 2,000 people in Ireland and elsewhere."
And again, "The IRA has murdered those who get in the way of its larger enterprise (making war on the Brits) and its subsidiary enterprises (gun running, smuggling, illegal businesses of all kinds, political opponents, Protestant thugs, innocent Protestants whose deaths can be exploited, etc)."
You later admitted to me that you were wrong to accuse me in another thread -- about what I no longer recall.
Yet, your stupid attacks against me continue.
Why do you lie?
Pyss-poor reasons.
De Valera seems to have been pro-Nazi, or at least pro-German, which after 1939 was the same thing. He deserves to be condemned by history.
Yes, I admit I got it wrong on that previous occassion, I got my wires crossed, it wasn't a deliberate lie, my apologies on that.
But, I don't see you unequivocally condemn all IRA actions, if you can do that, then I'll apologise for that.
IT,
You wrote:
"Yes, I admit I got it wrong on that previous occassion, I got my wires crossed, it wasn't a deliberate lie, my apologies on that."
Thanks, but with the continued lies on your part that seems like a very insincere apology. Empty and meaningless. Read on and you'll see what I mean.
"But, I don't see you unequivocally condemn all IRA actions, if you can do that, then I'll apologise for that."
Wait a minute. I have to do something so that you won't lie about me? Why don't you just not lie about me instead? Seriously, you are so full of it! I have to satisfy you so that you won't lie about me? Are you kidding me? YOU'RE LYING ABOUT WHAT I DO AND SAY!!!!! What part of that do you not understand?
It is wrong, immoral and indecent to lie. You are lying about me by saying that I am pro-IRA or an IRA defender. That's a lie!!! You wrote and repeat that lie based on exactly NOTHING but your tendency to label ANYONE who disagrees with you as pro-IRA. And now I have to satisfy you so that you won't lie about me?
Do you see where I might have a problem with the idea that I have do ANYTHING so that you'll stop lying about me?
Where the hell do you come up with this crap?
If I were to lie about you cheating on your wife, would it make any sense for me to insist you denounce adultery BEFORE I stop lying about you?
IT'S A LIE!!! What part of that do you not understand?
I called the IRA murderers - because they are murderers. That wasn't enough to satisfy you? Oh, no! I must satisfy Irish Thatcherite or else he won't stop lying about me!
Irish Thatcherite, just stop lying. I don't need your apology. It would be meaningless from you anyway. I would have absolutely no reason to believe it is sincere. Anyone who can repeatedly lie about a person and then demand that the person he has lied about must satisfy HIM FIRST or else he won't stop lying or won't apologize, isn't worth getting an apology from.
I unequivocally condemn all IRA terrorist actions. Whether they call themselves the INLA, the Provos, or whatever, I absolutely and positively condemn all terrorism, all murders.
I didn't write that to satisfy you Irish Thatcherite. I wrote that simply so I could say the following without any hint of doubts or second thoughts in my conscience:
Take your insincere apology and go to hell, Irish Thatcherite. You're a liar.
I apologise anyway, even though you still accuse me of lying, an honest mistake isn't a lie.
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