It's the cuisine.
Posted on 01/01/2007 4:25:08 PM PST by yochanan
Why do evangelicals support Israel so strongly? Is the American Jews' fear of fundamentalist Christianity based on constitutional principle, or social and cultural snobbery and political partisanship?
A Match Made in Heaven is a funny, readable, book. It is the most entertaining way to struggle with questions such as "Why do evangelicals support Israel so strongly? Is their philo-Semitism just a front for their true purpose to convert Jews? Do the evangelicals, as their opponents charge, really want to use the Jews as cannon fodder at the battle of Armageddon? Or are they simply responding to the biblical commandment to love Israel? Finally, is the American Jews' fear of fundamentalist Christianity based on constitutional principle, or social and cultural snobbery and political partisanship?"
We will discuss these questions this week, and readers, as usual, can send their questions to rosnersdomain@haaretz.co.il.
How do America's Orthodox Jews relate to Zionist Evangelicals?
Joe Feld
Paradoxically, Orthodox Jews have the fewest problems with a Jewish-Evangelical relationship.
For one thing, a lot of Orthodox Jews and Evangelicals share conservative social and political positions. Orthodox Jews, for example, are rarely troubled by church-state separation issues. They send their own kids to parochial schools; they're glad to get government money via faith based programs; many are opposed to abortion, and they tend not to be too concerned about the good opinion of the "international community" - ie, Europeans.
Most Orthodox Jews also have a stronger connection to, and concern about, Israel than the secular or liberal majority. Orthodox Jews are more likely to care about a candidates' position on Israel. As a Democratic activist told me, if Cynthia McKinney ran for President as a Democrat, she'd get fifty percent of the Jewish vote.
Some Orthodox Jews are opposed to any
(Excerpt) Read more at haaretz.com ...
Actually, the modern missionary movements were almost all postmil at their inception.
There is more than one Covenant.
Both Jews and Gentiles need Christ to get to heaven, whether or not they have Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob's genes flowing in them.
Seems to me that is God's decision, not yours.
A variety of reasons religious, historic, and political.
1. Religious: we're from the same root.
2. Historic: Many Americans are Jewish and US loves determined underdogs.
3. Political: They are the only free-thinking, modern, representative democracy in the Mid-East.
"BTW, only the most egregiously ignorant Bible student would maintain the notion that God gives a rip about one's ethnicity, Jewish or otherwise."
Ethnicity has nothing to do with the Chosen People. God's choice of Moses and the Exodus people was not based on ethnicity. It was based on God setting these people apart for all time.
A variety of reasons religious, historic, and political.
1. Religious: we're from the same root.
2. Historic: Many Americans are Jewish and US loves determined underdogs.
3. Political: They are the only free-thinking, modern, representative democracy in the Mid-East.
"If God refuses salvation to those who deny the divinity of Jesus Christ, how is it that God's "chosen people" will qualify according to this rule?"
You dare to question the mind of God?
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Hey, somebody there is taking a flight out...Who's that, ya reckon???
It's the cuisine.
a) the Pharisees who condemned Jesus to death were "God's chosen people" (Jesus said they were NOT children of Abraham but rather children of the devil)
b) Paul was wrong when he said that it is those who are children of faith who are children of Abraham, and thus the true recipients of the covenant promises
c) the writer of Hebrews was wrong when he said that WE (the NT church) are the nation of priests, etc (all covenant OT language)
d) how the Holy Spirit got confused and could not even remember the names of the 12 tribes when they are "Prophesied" to re-take the land in Revelation 7 (hint: there is no "tribe of Benjamin")
I actually have a notebook full of places where the New Testament clearly and unequivocally says that the blessings on "Israel" are and always have been to the "true Israel" or those of faith, including the current Gentile Church.
To argue that those blessings belong to an atheistic hegemonistic, secular state which will expel those who preach the good news of the Messiah, is only further testimony that modern American Christians don't know 1)the bible and 2)the history of theology of end times
Further, there is no mention of it in Church History before 1860 or so, with the Irvingite sect.
Maybe they can foot the bill for Israeli foreign aid.
If you object to foreign aid for Israel then I assume you also object to foreign aid going to much of the third world who offer the world nothing but misery, destruction and death. U.S. aid to Israel is probably one of the few truly correct foreign policies we have. If ever there was a clear distinction between right and wrong, good and evil, one only needs to look at the Arab world vs. Israel to make an accurate comparison.
You assume correctly.
Both Jews and Gentiles need Christ to get to heaven, whether or not they have Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob's genes flowing in them.
Jews could get to heaven on their own by keeping the law perfectly, but I guess we know that is not possible so they need a Savior too. Only One has kept the law perfectly.
The word "rapture" is derived from the Latin "rapio" which means "to seize quickly" and is merely a term used to describe the event mentioned above.
Very good arguement. I have never studied end times using my interlinear Bible. So I never came across rapio. My problem is that rapio has never been fully translated into "rapture". If one would use their standard concordance in their Bible, they would never find the term.
Here is Matthew 24. Christ himself talking about end times. He describes things that will signal the end times, but never mentions his people being removed from them. verse 22 mentions the days will be cut short "for the sake" of the elect.
22"Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for (Z)the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
In fact Christ talks about believers killed in these end times. He talks about the Abomination of Desolation. He talks about beleivers enduring till the end. But never once is it mentioned that believers are removed before this.
8"(K)But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.
9"(L)Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and (M)you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
10"At that time many will (N)fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.
11"Many (O)false prophets will arise and will mislead many.
12"Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold.
13"(P)But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
14"This (Q)gospel of the kingdom (R)shall be preached in the whole (S)world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Perilous Times
15"Therefore when you see the (T)ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in (U)the holy place ((V)let the reader understand),
16then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
17"Whoever is on (W)the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house.
18"Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.
19"But (X)woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
20"But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.
21"For then there will be a (Y)great tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.
Never does Christ talk about removing his believers during this time. Its not until afterwards
29"But immediately after the (AI)tribulation of those days (AJ)THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND (AK)THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30"And then (AL)the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see (AM)the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
31"And (AN)He will send forth His angels with (AO)A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His (AP)elect from (AQ)the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
Often times speakers, preachers and authors will use what I call the thief in the night rapture.
39and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the (AZ)coming of the Son of Man be.
40"Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
41"(BA)Two women will be grinding at the (BB)mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
42"Therefore (BC)be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
43"But be sure of this, that (BD)if the head of the house had known (BE)at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
My problem with this to describe the rapture is that Christ is having a conversation with his disciples, he describes all that is going to happen, and gives them warnings AND THEN talks of believers being taken up.
All scripture is useful but I think this next part is the most important, but left out.
45"Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time?
46"Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes.
Any insights you have would be appreciated.
See my post #155
So, I guess in your mind, all Protestants are raving heretics?
and they tend not to be too concerned about the good opinion of the "international community" - ie, Europeans.
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I'm just a simple person, not well versed in religion, not well versed in politics and just plod along in life trying to carve out a living but when it comes to Israel I support her 100% for very simple reasons. I look at the Arab States, I look at the Islamic States, I look at Europe, I look at the majority of nations at the U.N., I listen to the far left, the far right, I look at the conflicts around the world and then I look at Israel. If ever there was an example of good vs. evil one has to be blind to side with those who would destroy or accommodate the destruction of Israel.
What covenant was broken? God just changed their living conditions.
Gods first covenant was between himself and Abraham.
This thread is a classic example of the divisions in doctrine that plague the Church today.
Christ warned us....and now we see this being played out right before our eyes.
Indeed these are the last days.
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