Libertarian GOP defection?

Townhall.com ^ | Tuesday, December 12, 2006 | Bruce Bartlett

[Antoninus]

A. Liberals who feel taxes are too high
B. Conservatives who got caught doing an illegal act and were convicted, ie dopesmokers, cocaine users etc.
C. Anarchists who want the destruction of most forms of centralized authority.

I generally agree. I'd change "B" to:

B. Individuals who have acted badly in the past and are unwilling to accept the traditional consequences for such actions.

I would also add the following:

D. Individuals who would rather rationalize their vices as "rights" than recognize them for what they are and overcome them.

[Antoninus]

I think the libertarian position on gay marriage is that marriage is a religious institution and government has no business sanctioning any variety of it.

It is. And it's an idiotic position on many different levels.

[Sunsong]

With the passing of the older generation of Republican leaders who were at least sympathetic to the libertarian message, a new generation of Puritans have taken over the party. They seem to want nothing more than to impose Draconian new laws against drugs, gambling, pornography and other alleged vices. The new Republican Puritans don't trust people or believe that they have the right to do as they please as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. They want the government to impose itself on peoples' lives and deny them freedom of choice

There it is.

[Psycho_Bunny]

Libertarians are Anarchists who bathe.

[aft_lizard]

Your right RR wasnt warped, he didnt hate Christians, he didnt want open borders, had a war on drugs and didnt support abortion on demand.

[aft_lizard]

Your right, your version of B is more open and less general.

[antisocial]

"Basically, libertarians are allied with the right on economic issues and the left on everything else."

"bigger, more intrusive government
gun-control
affirmative action
expansive government "healthcare"

You've made the mistake of equating Republicans with the "right". Only about 1/3 of them could be described as being on the right. The rest are RINO's.

[Beagle8U]

"You just dismiss out of hand planks on the platform like elimination of welfare, elimination of antitrust laws, free trade markets, deregulation of markets, privatization of government industry, etc. Yeah, other than 90% of their beliefs, they are just like liberals."

I admit that in looking at their new platform its hard to define what they stand for on trade. Total free trade or is it free trade within the United States?

With all taxes eliminated on wages and property, where does any funds come from to pay for even limited gov.?

Is it back to tariffs on imports or are we talking anarchy?

[Small-L]

You're on Antoninus. I agree that it's a bad idea, and I for one would want no part of it. Now can you explain to me where in the Constitution that it says that government should be dictating what is a marriage and what isn't? Why should married couples be treated any differently by government than two single people who share an apartment? Why should the IRS punish people for filing jointly?

From my point of view (and I'll assert, most small-l) govenment has no role in dictating what marriage is. On the other hand, civil unions should be a legal contract between two individuals, enforceable in court. Marriage should be the province of churches; unions the province of government. Married couples should be able to choose whether or not they want to be a legally-enforceable civil union (with the tax and divorce implications it implies). Churches should be able to decide who they want to marry and who they do not. Politicians have chosen to confuse the two issues by trying to gain votes by writing in (fake) tax benefits for "married" couples.

[DManA]

Idiotic says you, but completely different than what you accursed libertarians of believing.

[tacticalogic]

Newt wrote a platform and shamed republicans into supporting it. It was enormously successful politically. Republicans threw Newt and his platform into the garbage. Americans threw Republicans into the garbage.

He might have shamed Republicans into supporting it. To the degree that it was republican, republicans would have supported it regardless of what Newt said.

[the OlLine Rebel]

"Basically, libertarians are allied with the right on economic issues and the left on everything else."


I don't think this is correct at all. Libertarians only side with the Left definitely on "drug freedom", and possibly also abortion freedom (not clear) and definitely porn freedom.

However, typical leftist !$#@$!# like making everyone wear seat belts and helmets and making kids wear suits of armor when playing is NOT a Libertarian bent.

[agooga]

"I would rather work within the party I agree with on 70-80% and work on getting the other 20-30 % over time. "

But I only agree about 30 - 40 % with the performance of the current administration.

Tax cut- fine, but where was the tax reform?

Deposing of Saddam-- Fine, but a horrible waste in the nation building attempt that followed.

Two ostensibly conservative justices-- Fine, but only after major squawking over Harriet Myers.

Aside from these marginal moves by the Bush administration, there is nothing more to keep me interested in this new Neo-Con style of government. Nothing.

It's 30% friend, no more.

I don't want neo-conservatism with a smiley face and a velvet glove-- I want my FREEDOM!!!

[Raymann]

Yeah, they're that and the whole welfare state thing. Compared to us, most conservatives are damn near socialists.

[Beagle8U]

"The question is whether you would take that platform as a reference to determine what a republic , and the political philosophy of republicanism that advocates it is."

No. I think it a given that a republic is a collection of states joined as a nation into a union of states with certain rights of self governance.

[Toadman]

>>Good, all Loserdopians get out and stop pretending to be conservatives<<

Ultimately, they are all just labels. Nobody fits any of them perfectly.

I agree, here's my snapshot.

I've always voted R but believe in this:

Flat tax or NRST (I admit to being a neophyte regarding the NRST but so far I'm for it)

Less goverment spending

Yes to Term limits

School vouchers or all schools being privatized

Against Gun Control

Pro-Iraq war and pre-emptive strikes against known enemies

Believe in drug legalization (no I don't do drugs... except alchohol ocaisionally)

Pro-Free trade

No to farm subsidies

Unions used to have a purpose but have had their day and now present a danger

Repeal the 17th amendment (and the 16th for that matter)

Against ILLEGAL immigration and any offer of amnesty

Against the death penalty because I'd rather let a 1000 guilty spend thier lives in prison than mistakenly execute one innocent man... if one pleads guilty to a hienous crime and is eligible, then I'm supportive.

[DManA]

I was speaking of the Contract with America. I bet not 1 in 10 Republican senators and representatives heve ever read the "official" platform.

[Preachin']

"You're the ones who keep telling us about that "big tent"."

You're still here? I thought you were gone already.

It's only a "big-tent" in your view if I shut up and vote your way.

The difference is that the GOP is a place where you have to work.

Did you notice I am not over in the LP attempting to tell everyone to be pro-life. Maybe it's because it'd take awhile to convince both of you.

[Sam Cree]

"Libertarians only side with the Left definitely on "drug freedom", and possibly also abortion freedom (not clear) and definitely porn freedom."

While it's true that the Left in America generally endorses drug, abortion, literary and artistic freedom, I believe that there is nothing inherently leftist about those positions. As I recall, pure leftist societies of the past, such as the USSR, have tolerated freedom in none of those things. The Left in the US endoreses them for reasons of its own, sometimes because it sees them as destructive to our society.

[tacticalogic]

So you won't use the Republican Party platform as the measure of what republicanism is, but you will use the Libertarian Party platform as the measure of what libertarianism is?