Posted on 12/10/2006 9:46:26 AM PST by My Favorite Headache
Hell has a new employee...Pinochet is dead at 91.
If only Pol Pot got the kind of derision that Pinochet got.
Your observation is correct, but your rationale is backwards. Real freedom is rooted in the rights of life, liberty, and property. Communism is by definition the antithesis of all three to the point that they are mutually exclusive. Any true conservative would recognize that.
A problem emerges when the second principle you mention, democracy, is used to enable and elect a communist regime, as happened with Allende in 1970. Such a regime is, by its very nature, hostile to life, liberty, and property, and thus your first principle, freedom. Furthermore, when freedom falls any remainder of democracy soon follows, as its absence gives rise to an unchallenged totalitarian state. It is therefore possible in some circumstances that freedom and democracy in the long run may only be sustained by overturning democracy in the short run.
This is the infamous nazi paradox of democracy - what are a people to do when the electorate votes for a Hitler?
The only answer that works is to overthrow the Hitler, or the Stalin, or the Ortega, or the Allende, and to do so by force if necessary. Pinochet did just that, and he was right in doing so. Even in the most anti-democratic phases of his rule, Pinochet restored the rights of private property that Allende discarded. He thus set Chile on a path to restoring its freedom, followed by its democracy as he gradually and voluntarily relinquished power.
As for atrocities - yes they happened, and no they were not good things. That said, the brutality of the Pinochet regime has been SEVERELY overstated by the leftist media, and the as well as the character of his "victims" has been intentionally misrepresented. The Chilean commission that investigated his 17 year rule attributed 2,300 deaths to his regime. Closer examination reveals some very interesting information about these deaths, putting them into a very different perspective than the "brutal dictator" spin that is often attributed to Pinochet. Consider:
1. Of the 2,300 deaths, over half ocurred during the September 1973 coup itself and the following three months of political discord. Revolutions are a bloody thing by nature so much of this was unavoidable. Furthermore, almost all of the "victims" of this period were marxist officials of the Allende regime, including Allende himself who committed suicide with a gold plated AK given to him by Fidel Castro.
2. Of the remaining deaths, about 600 happened in the 3 years following the coup when marxist pockets were still resisting and many of Allende's subordinates were running around in the jungles of neighboring countries.
3. Political affiliation is known for about 1,200 of the 2,300 killed. Over 1,100 of these belonged to one of three Allendist-marxist political parties, including 384 in the Movimiento de Izquierda Revolucionaria - a marxist terrorist organization that was closely aligned with the Allende regime. 758 were members of other communist political parties, and a couple dozen were members of armed marxist guerilla groups such as the Frente Patriótica Manuel Rodríguez. These people were not your normal opposition political party on the minority side of the legislature. They shared more in common with the Bolsheviks, the Nazi SS, and Hezbollah than they did with any legitimate political organization.
4. After the Allendist threat dissipated, political executions dropped dramatically. Between 1977 and 1990, when Pinochet left office, there were roughly 400 executions - an average of less than 30 a year. These included members of small marxist guerilla uprisings in 1983 and 1984. By Latin America standards, this number is miniscule. For comparison, the "democratically elected" Sandinistas executed over 15,000 in their 11 year rule in Nicaragua during the same period. Hugo Chavez is believed to be responsible for murders described as in the thousands after only 5 years in office.
Yes, Hitler was a socialist, like Stalin, Lenin, Peron, and Mao. America really did not have any involvement as many like to believe.
Avante!
Jane, you ignorant slut.
"Los Desaparecidos" refers to the disappeared in Argentina's Dirty War. The Argentine junta was a lot more brutal and sadistic. Torture and sadism ran rampant. They would mutilate and bury their victims. They stole babies from people and performed forced abortions. At least 30,000 died. It would not surprise me if up to 200,000 died because many just disappeared. The Argentine junta had support from Communists and the Soviet Union. That's one reason why America sided with England during the Falkland Invasion in 1982. The reason for that was they were seen as anti-Peronist and no one liked it. When Jorge Videla came to power, it was welcomed. They came about because Peronists were engaging in terrorism. Their goal was to undo what Juan Peron had done.
Agreed.
Totalitarianism does not happen overnight. It's a gradual process.
It is difficult to pinpoint exactly how many Castro and his club of thugs has killed. Noone will really know the number because a huge fraction of the deaths caused by Castro (at least in my opinion) are people who have drowned trying to escape his hellhole to Florida, Mexico, and elsewhere. Some estimate put those deaths alone at 30-40,000. But don't expect anyone in the media to report that! When Castro dies the only thing that the media will report will be the passing of "a great humanitarian."
General Pinochet is dead =
A Chilean's ego-trip ended.
-- posted by db at Anagrammy.com
Maybe I'm just a masochist.
I find your comparison of Allende to Stalin and Hitler somewhat ridiculous. Can you honestly not see the difference?
The question is, when the Chilean people voted for Allende, were they voting for the end of democracy? I doubt it. Allende served three years of a six-year term and was highly controversial, but I have not read any credible evidence that Chile, in 1973, was on the brink of becoming a Marxist dictatorship. While democracy continues to function any leader, no matter how obnoxious his ideology, can be thrown out of office if the people so choose. Pinochet didn't give the people that option for 16 years.
Even if we accept that Pinochet saved Chile from Marxist dictatorship, how can we, as defenders of democratic freedoms, possibly celebrate Pinochet's right-wing brand of dictatorship? (Ironically Pinochet kept Chile's economic lifeblood, the copper industry, firmly under state control throughout his rule).
Pinochet was an enemy of freedom, just as a Marxist dictator would be, and any true conservative would recognise that fact. I don't buy your Orwellian doublethink that Pinochet was somehow defending democracy.
I didn't say he was good. Please read my post. I said he was neither all good nor all bad.
It is not enough to just survive the war, we have to be worthy of survival.
Wow - that's all we need. Defeatists like yourself around here. Life is not just mall walking and happy times...it's also blood and guts--you know like the struggle to defend one's way of life.
Thanks for introducing a much needed dose of sarcastic wit to this thread.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.