James Kim, missing in Oregon, found [dead].

CNN Headline News | 12-6-2006

[Troublemaker]

So sad. May God watch over his wife and kids and grant them peace and strength. May God also watch over the search & rescue crew that found him. As someone who has been involved w/ search & rescue units for almost 20 years, I can tell you how disappointing and disturbing it is to find a body and not a live person. Prayers to the Kim family.

[madison10]

I think you are correct. The answer did give me goosebumps, though. Have to remember that he did not know his family was rescued and he was thinking of them first.

[wtc911]

That's just Fawn...

----------------------------------------

Sorry to here that.

[wideawake]

Ah, yes. People who are prayerful and sad are phonies.

They don't sincerely feel empathy for another human being.

Right?

Because you cannot, and everyone else must be just like you.

[not5150]

If you can find running water then you never want to waste fuel melting snow/ice.

In addition, melting ice is more efficient and yields more water than snow.

[elc]

Thought they ran out of fuel.

[cyborg]

Never know when God has your number. I am not afraid of death as I've seen it right before my eyes. A person should be at peace with themselves at all times.

[Jedi Master Pikachu]

pinging Fawn to Comment 214 (out of ethics).

Fawn's, and others', attitudes have been quite disrespectful.

[not5150]

The wife likely would have several tools from the car to dig with. Umbrella, tire iron, hub cap, etc etc. She probably also had some utensils (spoons, fork, knives) because she did have kids and a baby with her.

So no she wouldn't need to dig with her bare hands and no the ground generally isn't frozen. Please spend some times in the woods and take some wilderness survival training before you post again.

[djf]

I know what you mean about the snippiness part. Seems like a person has about a fifteen second delay these days on FR after he posts something before some other braniac shows up with some snide remark or Ad Hominem attack.

Not very united here anymore. Or very civil. We, each of us, deserve better. And we can only get that by acting better.

I try to follow the old saw that if I ain't got something good to say, then just keep my mouth shut.

[Sicon]

I've got a solar shower thing that you fill with water and put in the sun. After a few hours, it can get the water up to a pretty comfortable 80 degrees or so!

Same principle would apply even if it's snowy out. I imagine if you put a quart of snow in a black plastic garbage bag, and stuck it in the light near a window in your car, it could melt it pretty good.

In late spring and summer, that might work. But you need to keep in mind that in December, at northerly latitudes, the sun's rays are coming in at a very low angle, passing through a lot of atmosphere, and are therefore considerably less intense than they are in the spring and summer. Your snow in a black plastic bag isn't likely to melt much during December in Oregon...

[Jedi Master Pikachu]

and 223.

[paulat]

I usually like your posts, RC, but I think you are being too harsh.

A lot of us were holding a kind of "vigil" on another thread...up until the wee hours of the morning. Well over a thousand posts. I suggest you take a look at it. There was a lot of scientific, practical, etc., discussion on it, and there was a strong wave of hope right around 12:30 PT.

This situation captured a lot of hearts.

[PSYCHO-FREEP]

Mountain valleys on the coast of Oregon are teaming with small springs and water run off. Ice or water is pretty much available in all drainages in most areas in this region.

Here again, I am puzzled why they could not figure out this basic element. In most all of the search and rescues I have been on, most of those who survived, used this logic in contributing to their survival.

[msnimje]

Why do you say that? They stayed...he strayed. They did not find his wife and kids because of him.

They did find his wife and kids ALIVE because of his actions the past 10 days. He kept them ALIVE so they were found ALIVE by rescuers.

[djf]

Thats the part that gets me. That would be my number one priority - get a fire going, and keep it going.

The thing is, a few days after provisions run out, and your blood sugar starts to fall, it's easy to make bad decisions. So I can't blame him one bit for trying.

[Jedi Master Pikachu]

Even the locals were stating that the place was dangerous, if that helps explain water runoff....

[wideawake]

and no the ground generally isn't frozenp>Insofar as there generally aren't freezing temperatures in the Pacific Northwest, like in the spring and summer and much of the fall, yes.

In the winter, when it is in the teens overnight, it is frozen indeed.

[Billthedrill]

How warm would a person stay if they were drinking or eating snow?

That is, sadly, precisely correct. The classic scenario with a mother and infant is to find the infant fine and the mother dead of hypothermia. Why? She was melting snow in her mouth and passing it to the baby that way.

Unfortunately Kim's actions seem those of someone in the last stages of hypothermia struggling desperately for his family's life. You do crazy stuff in that situation, such as leaving a road for a ravine because maybe you thought you saw a light. When S&R starts finding clothing it's close to the end even if that isn't what they put in the press releases. Deep sorrow here.

[Revolting cat!]

I do understand the capture a lot of hearts part, even if I've been to preoccupied with opther things to pay much attention to this or any other situation in the past coupe of weeks.

But. I'm being harsh, because these "prayers for the family" demonstrations, as this what they are, do tick me off! Imagine being a member of a family and reading such posts signed by some anonymous strangers who go by screen handles like "Revolting cat!" or "Dead Corpse":

Condolences to the family.

Signed

Dead Corpse

(P.S. Nothing personal, Dead Corpse.)