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Rating the Presidents
Townhall ^ | Tuesday, December 5, 2006 | Bruce Bartlett

Posted on 12/06/2006 6:46:51 AM PST by presidio9

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To: presidio9

Agreed.

The whole "Hiroshima" thing brings me back to my basic premise that I think should apply in all wars or actions when the decision is hard:

Who is better?

That is the critical question.

You can talk about "million American SOLDIERS" lost for a Japan invasion, or a million Japanese CIVILIANS (mostly) lost for "the bomb", but who is really better worth keeping?

We are. We were better than the Japs (sorry, no PC here) and are better than the Muzzies (always were and will be). So if it has to come to the dreadful decision, I pick US to save.


41 posted on 12/06/2006 8:10:58 AM PST by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue.)
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To: Clifford The Big Red Dog

And Harry's one of the few Democrat presidents I respect and admire.



I guess many people do too. An aircraft carrier is named after him. I don't know much about him, but considering there are only 12 carriers to have one named after you means something.


42 posted on 12/06/2006 8:11:33 AM PST by napscoordinator
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To: MadIvan

I meant from a scandal plagued failed expectations perspective.


43 posted on 12/06/2006 8:13:00 AM PST by graf008 ("My most important function on the Supreme Court is to tell the majority to take a walk." -Scalia)
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To: ChurtleDawg

Consider Nagasaki interest due for Pearl Harbor.


44 posted on 12/06/2006 8:13:47 AM PST by LiveFree99
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To: graf008
I meant from a scandal plagued failed expectations perspective.

It depends on how you view it - if from the perspective of public scandals, yes Harding's administration wasn't good. If you mean in actually managing the country - better than he's given credit. He was certainly better than a lot of C- Presidents like Pierce, Buchanan, Fillmore, Taylor, Tyler.

Regards, Ivan

45 posted on 12/06/2006 8:14:34 AM PST by MadIvan (I aim to misbehave.)
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To: Rembrandt_fan

Please. Roosevelt was a commie who wouldn't mind having some of that Soviet-style statism for himself. Mr. benevolent dictator as it was.


46 posted on 12/06/2006 8:14:46 AM PST by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue.)
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To: RexBeach
Dropping the second bomb so soon after the first was a bluff -- we were OUT OF NUKES at that point, and wouldn't be able to build any more until (according to the estimates at the time) November 1945.

Fortunately, it worked.

47 posted on 12/06/2006 8:16:09 AM PST by steve-b (It's hard to be religious when certain people don't get struck by lightning.)
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To: RexBeach
And Harry Truman probably didn't need to drop atomic bombs on both Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

The man is a fool. Our casualties from an invasion of the Home Islands of Japans would have been horrific. However, the atomic bomb saved more Japanese lives than American. We had total domination of the sky. We would have bombed Japan for months. Every major city would have been fire bombed with casualties that would have made Hiroshima and Nagasaki look like an afternoon tea party. The Japanese fought on Okinawa to the last man. They would do the same on the home islands. They would give no quarter nor would we. It would be a battle of extermination. Japan should be grateful that we dropped the bomb on them and thus give them a "face saving" way to surrender.

48 posted on 12/06/2006 8:17:11 AM PST by cpdiii (Oil Field Trash and proud of it, Geologist, Pilot, Pharmacist, Iconoclast)
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To: Rembrandt_fan

You make some valid points about FDR, but Wilson deserves considerably harsher than Bartlett gives him. The notion that Wilson was "forced by the Germans into WWI" is simply laughable; also, he single-handedly reversed what could have been the beginnings a considerably less painful transition to racial equality that was beginning to develop during the Teddy Roosevelt years (for no other better reason than to satisfied his bigoted prickitude).


49 posted on 12/06/2006 8:21:51 AM PST by steve-b (It's hard to be religious when certain people don't get struck by lightning.)
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To: RexBeach
I believe President Truman thought he would have been impeached had he not dropped the bombs on Japan. But he also thought it was the right thing to do.

This idea being pushed by some people today that Japan had really given up before the bombs were dropped is nothing but revisionist history being pushed by people who seem to have an unnecessary guilt complex.

50 posted on 12/06/2006 8:21:53 AM PST by jpl (Victorious warriors win first, then go to war; defeated warriors go to war first, then seek to win.)
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To: FLOutdoorsman
"Clay a leftist?"

LOL!

I don't think that the Whig standard-bearer in 1844 was a man of the left. However I think in a race between the Democrat Polk and the Whig Clay, the leftist historian would be sympathetic towards Henry Clay and the Whigs. I cannot see a leftist historian happy about 54, 40, or fight, war with Mexico, support for Texas annexation (which potentially strengthened the slave states), acquisition of California and Oregon, reduction of tariffs, and anybody referred to as "Young Hickory," but as O'Reilly often opines, I could be wrong.

51 posted on 12/06/2006 8:25:09 AM PST by AdvisorB
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To: kromike
The absolutely worst-ever (and last) President we will have will be a "President Rodham". If "it" somehow gets elected, there won't be any more elections...

I wonder if "its" campaign bumperstickers will say Rodham, Rodham-Clinton, Clinton, or just Hillary! (again)

52 posted on 12/06/2006 8:40:22 AM PST by rivercat (The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers. - William Shakespeare)
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To: presidio9
I like Jackson more than Lincoln, and both of them more than Washington. Trouble is that I never have enough Jacksons. Forget about Grant, can't remember the last time I saw him.

Really, I could use a few Wilsons, but I don't think there are any more of him out there.

TS
And, of course, Benjy wasn't a president, so he's not part of this discussion.

53 posted on 12/06/2006 8:47:42 AM PST by Tanniker Smith (I didn't know she was a liberal when I married her.)
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To: MadIvan
I have mixed feelings about Clay, but one contemporary of his who was an admirer was Abraham Lincoln.

If a third-party anti-slavery candidate had not siphoned off some votes in New York state that otherwise would have gone to Clay in 1844, he would have defeated Polk, and we might not have had the war with Mexico in 1846. Whether we would have eventually acquired the Southwest is hard to say. Just as if Ralph Nader had not run in 2000, Gore might have won, and Afghanistan and Iraq would still be under anti-American dictatorships.

54 posted on 12/06/2006 8:51:08 AM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: ChurtleDawg
I might agree on Hiroshima, but I think the Nagasaki bomb was just over kill.

Sometimes you have to drive the point home.

55 posted on 12/06/2006 8:53:07 AM PST by unixfox (The 13th Amendment Abolished Slavery, The 16th Amendment Reinstated It !)
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To: MadIvan

"As a historical figure, I despise Henry Clay. He was arrogant, pompous and nearly always wrong."

I know how you like Quincy (JQA), but when it came to James Polk, John Quincy Adams was the very anti-thesis of a class act. It was said of him, that when discussing Polk, John Quincy Adams "elevated personal calumny to an art form." He said of Polk that he wasn't qualified to be "...an eminent County Court attorney." Adams disparaged Polk for having "no wit, no gracefulness of delivery, no point of argument, no elegance of language, no philosophy..."

I know this is politics, and a byproduct certainly of the famous, or infamous "corrupt bargain" between Adams and Clay, that effectively sealed Jackson's defeat in the 1824 election. Jackson, and to a lesser extent, his protege, James Polk, never forgave Adams or the machinations of Clay. The animosity was not a oneway street, for Adams and Clay bristled, as they were relegated to the sidelines during the Jacksonian era.


56 posted on 12/06/2006 8:54:32 AM PST by AdvisorB
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To: Rembrandt_fan
Your use of the phrase 'cozying up' is disingenuous. What was Roosevelt's alternative--not allying ourselves with Russia against the Germans?

Stalin was fighting a force that was occupying his country. Do you suggest that Stalin might have backed out of the war if he did not get support from his allies? To suggest such is equally disengenuous. I may be wrong about my assessment of FDR and Stalin, but IMO, FDR was ingenuous in his dealings with "Uncle Joe"; trusting everything Stalin said. Stalin was disengenuous with FDR, giving the impression that conquest of eastern Europe was not formost in his mind.

IMO, FDR was "had" by Stalin.

57 posted on 12/06/2006 9:12:08 AM PST by Sans-Culotte ("Thanks, Tom DeLay, for practically giving me your seat"-Nick Lampson)
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To: RexBeach

Also, if defense of IWO JIMA was any indication of what the Japanese would do to defend their homeland, then Truman was right to drop the Atomic Bombs. Plus we had to make Japan think we had a whole arsenal of them. If they knew we only had two, they probably would not have surrendered.


58 posted on 12/06/2006 9:12:09 AM PST by jy1979
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To: jy1979

Imagine fighting a battle like Iwo Jima today?


59 posted on 12/06/2006 9:13:27 AM PST by RexBeach ("In war there is no substitute for victory." Douglas MacArthur)
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To: MadIvan
It depends on what you value. Certainly, there are Presidents who are truly awful by any measure - Franklin Pierce and James Buchanan spring to mind.

How could you not mention Carter and Clinton?

60 posted on 12/06/2006 9:18:52 AM PST by pgkdan
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