10 SECONDS OF HELL IN QUEENS (Driver refuses officer's order to halt)

NY Post ^ | 11/27/2006 | Murray Weiss

[RGSpincich]

-snip-

Dramatic new details of the deadly mayhem include the undercover cop at one point climbing onto the hood of Bell's car - his gun drawn and his police shield around his neck - screaming, "Police! Turn off your car! Let me see your hands!" said sources who talked to some of the cops involved in the shooting.

When Bell then tried to run down the plainclothes officer - twice - the cop began shooting, with some of his 11 bullets piercing the rear window of the man's Nissan Altima, the sources said. -snip-

[rock58seg]

Yep. Those joints are open almost all night. They have to close around that time to give them time to clean up before the next day/night.....

Actually it's Liqour sales closing time in NYC. 3 A.M. on Saturday night/Sunday morning.

[Mad Dawg]

I was trained "shoot to stop the threat" and "aim at the Center of Mass".

[Mad Dawg]

Check out the article. It was 5 officers, and 1 accounted for 31 rounds - one in the pipe, 15 in magazine #1, 15 in magazine #2. The Detective ON the car accounts for 11 rounds. That's 42. So that leaves 8 to be spilt up among the other three guys.

So they say.

[bboop]

"I think if a cop tells you to stop and you instead try to run him over he has the right to shoot you."

That's pretty much it, in a nutshell.

[photodawg]

The cops mowed down some guy who was unarmed and you're editorializing the title. While Shrapton et. al., will have a field day with this, but all evidence points to it being the cop's fault.



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what evidence? Some guy? They are calling him a bride groom. Are you serious he's living with the woman and already has two kids by her. The second guy in the car has two felony convictions one for selling crack in a school yard (served two years) and robbery assault with a deadly weapon, shot at someone (served two years) and he's only 21 years old. Some guy? these "guys" were under surveillance until 4 am in that club. Then they tried to escape and assault the cops with a deadly weapon.

[photodawg]

I heard over 50 rounds fired - doesn't anyone check during re-loads to see what is the status of the target?>>>

Wow! I didn't hear that. That is overkill for sure! You shoot to incapicitate, not mutilate.
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five cops, that's ten rounds per officer. That takes about 15 seconds. They were shooting a car not a fleeing suspect. That was what was necessary to do the job, no more no less.

[photodawg]

Traffic stops need to be done by UNIFORMED cops dressed like policemen with their cap and uniform visible to the driver.
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are you serious?? it wasn't a traffic stop. They were fleeing the scene of an arrest. The cops were trying to arrest them for activity inside the club that gave them probable cause. This wasn't a traffic stop.

[photodawg]

Not infrequently, the cops accuse anyone of fleeing in a car to be trying to assault them.
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And your statistical evidence for this statement is found where? And their reason for asserting this?

[jjm2111]

Well you got the "guilt by association" logical fallacy going for you.

[Elsie]

Looks like you're at the bottom of the pile on this one!

[photodawg]

Well you got the "guilt by association" logical fallacy going for you.

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Why don't you take five seconds to actually think about the post you're responding to? Perhaps the officers were actually pursuing the passenger in the car, not the driver? The driver, by resisting arrest became part of the crime. Remember this was an undercover operation. Both the officers and the perpetrators were in the club for a period of time. It was from this surveillance that the police based their arrest. The perp with the arrest record for armed robbery (shot at someone during a robbery) might have been the subject of arrest. Only a prejudiced idiot like yourself would automatically assume this was guilt by association. It might have been death by association, but it was the drivers behavior, not the officers that got the man killed. If you think this was a race issue you are indeed a fool sir.

[bvw]

Plenty of warnings for the "victims" -- they were the victim only of a string of bad and very bad decisions on their own part.

(1) Bachelor parties at strip clubs or with strippers are not a normal part of preparation for marriage. They are always a mistake, a perversion of the whole concept of the special bond that marriage is.

(2) Going to strip clubs with a reputation for violence and gunplay -- another bad decision.

(3) Going with a "posse" of thugs ... another bad descisiion.

(4) Trying to run down a cop. Another bad decision.

(5) Trying to run him down twice, after all the other bad decisions -- the straw that broke the camel's back.

A good day for the local undertakers.

[hoosierham]

Oh hell! I know it is so easy to see that the object dangling from a chain around the neck of someone, who appears otherwise no different from the bar crowd,is a badge.

Cops' bad judgment runs through the whole situation.

TV ands movies are not meant to be training films.

You're trying to leave a bar after someone has confronted you and a "maniac" jumps on your car hood screaming...you would do WHAT?

[Gaffer]

Just curious...what are the races of the respective parties to the conflagration and from which side are they represented?

[RGSpincich]

Black, Hispanic & White.

[RGSpincich]

Black, Hispanic & White cops. Black guys in car.

[jjm2111]

Look at some of my later posts on the thread. It clarifies and highlights my reasoning.

Also, I hate the stupid FR peculiarity where someone is insulted and called "sir" in the same sentence. If you want to call me a fool, by all means, but drop the patronizing "sir".

[Gaffer]

Well, it still doesn't help much...Unarmed victim in car shot to death in a hail of at least 50 rounds, and cops saying the car being used as a deadly weapon. Several of the cops hadn't fired their guns in a confrontation before...

Over what time span did all of this take place?

[Collier]

Very interesting article. I forwarded it to my son.

His opinion was that there will be no more undercovers drinking in a bar to blend in anymore.

He also told me what he would have done, bearing in mind that he never worked as an undercover.

He said that the 1st cop, instead of jumping on the roof of the car, should have waited for his back up to arrive (they were nearby), and then try to pull the car over after it started to move.

I questioned him about it now becoming a police chase, but he said they may have pulled over, if they were truly harmless, and if not, it couldn't have been much worse.

He totally supports the police naturally, just a question of tactics.

[photodawg]

Also, I hate the stupid FR peculiarity where someone is insulted and called "sir" in the same sentence. If you want to call me a fool, by all means, but drop the patronizing "sir".
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What does this have to do with my response to your post, sir?