Posted on 11/24/2006 6:46:08 PM PST by kristinn
I'm reading an astonishing number of comments on Free Republic these days by posters who have joined the ranks of the anti-American left in calling for an immediate withdrawal from Iraq. Some claim to have military experience, some claim to be patriotic Americans and some claim to be smarter than the rest.
These posters are joining the Murtha-Rangel-McDermott treason caucus. Oh, they say they love the troops, but their decision to abandon them in the field speaks otherwise.
Three years ago, the United States led an international coalition to rid the world of one of the worst regimes on the planet. Saddam Hussein was an international terrorist: He financed terrorism, he trained terrorists and he harbored terrorists. He waged war on Iran, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Israel. He waged war on the people of Iraq, including genocidal campaigns against the Kurds in the north and the marsh Arabs in the south.
Saddam successfully subverted the Oil-for-Food program and was wearing down support for continuing the sanctions keeping him in check.
He had numerous contacts with al Qaeda over the years. He tried to assassinate a former U.S. president. He maintained research capabilities to implement nuclear, chemical and biological weapons as soon as the sanctions were lifted. There is evidence that some of these programs would have been operational within a year even with the sanctions in place.
The decision to remove Saddam and his regime as part of the Global War on Terror was correct.
Three-and-a-half years after Iraq and the world were liberated from Saddam and his terrorist regime, there are those on Free Republic who are clamoring to give up, surrender, cut and run, stab the troops in the back, betray the Iraqis, betray our allies in the GWOT, spit on the graves of our fallen heroes and join Cindy Sheehan, Medea Benjamin and Ramsey Clark in bringing about America's defeat in the GWOT.
It's only been three-and-a-half years--only six months since the freely elected government in Iraq was formed. In that time, what has been called a mini-Marshall Plan of construction and reconstruction has come to fruition. The Iraqis have held three national elections, they have held numerous local elections, fourteen out of eighteen Iraq provinces are relatively peaceful and stable.
Six months ago, when the Iraqi government was formed, the experts said the war would be taken to Baghdad because our enemies in the region could not abide the example of a free, democratic society in the Middle East. For once, the experts were right. The battle of Baghdad has been a prolonged Tet Offensive style operation of headline-grabbing attacks intended to sap the morale of Americans and Iraqis alike.
From what I've been reading on Free Republic lately, a lot of Freepers have fallen for the enemy's ploy and are howling like barking moonbats for our immediate withdrawal from Iraq. Some of that talk is couched in talk of 'we're fighting a PC war like Vietnam!' The soldiers I met in Iraq recently told Debra Argel Bastian to pass on a message to the Vietnam vets criticizing the war: With all due respect to your service, this is not Vietnam. It is not being fought like Vietnam. Please let us finish our mission.
But our enemy is playing the Vietnam ploy to great benefit. They know they can count on the American and world media to broadcast their propaganda. They work with leftist Americans to sabotage the war effort at home. They know these leftist Americans have allies in the Democratic party. They know they do not need a military victory--only political and psychological victories are needed to defeat America.
You guys are playing right in to their hands. Congratulations.
There are those who argue that murder and dictatorship is the mindset of the Middle East and that will not be changed by our actions. Funny how those who smugly denigrate the Arab peoples' capacity for freedom forget the wholesale slaughter of millions of Westerners by Westerners at the hands of Western dictatorships just a few generations past.
I hear complaints that the Iraqis aren't standing up. Yet, to use one common example, when police recruits are slaughtered in bombings, Iraqis line up the next day at the same recruiting center. The insurgency is small in number, but they are able to do enough damage on a daily basis to stretch out the time it will take to secure the whole of Iraq.
At this time of our testing, the American people are starting to go wobbly. Sadly, many Freepers are too. Our troops and their Commander-in-Chief are not, thank God. It's only been three-and-a-half years. The progress made has been phenomonal. Throw in the towel now, and you'll just have the terrorists follow us home. Everyone knows that, including you. I'm not willing to pay that price, not now, not ever, but you are.
Let me close by offering similar sentiments recently offered by two men 'in the know' on the situation in Iraq who are not giving up. First, Kurdish Regional Government Prime Minister Barzani: "When I was in the United States recently and read the negative news in the Washington Post, New York Times and in the network TV broadcasts, I even wondered if things had gotten so bad since I had left that I shouldn't return."
Next, Gen. Abizaid: "When I come to Washington, I feel despair. When I'm in Iraq with my commanders, when I talk to our soldiers, when I talk to the Iraqi leadership, they are not despairing."
"There are no muslim democracies"- Prokopton
Japan had no democratic experience prior to August 1945, either.-dirtboy
The Arabs have to overcome their inbreeding, unlike the Japs.
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/short/333/7573/831?etoc
(take a look at the percentage of cousin marriages in the Middle east vs. the US.)
Arabs are very tribal. What does it take for a population to accept democracy? First of all, it requires a spirit of egalitarianism among all the members of the population.
Tribes have a feeling of superiority over each other. They think the other tribe is genetically inferior- infidelic, if you will, or swinelike. They're not going to give that pig in the other tribe the power of a vote over their tribe.
Therefore, democracy is going to be problematic, when tried by a group of Arabs larger than a tribe.
America is special because it gathered people from all over the world who just wanted to escape this type of BS and bickering, who believed that all men are created equal, and that the king's genes and rights weren't any more divine than the rest of us.
Iraq is not like that. Iran is not like that. Saudi Arabia is not like that. Those people are different from us.
So were the first couple years of WWII.
For those who bother to dig deeper than the MSM defeatist pap, they would see see where some British troops are emulating Lawrence in how they patrol the Iranian border. American troops are learning how to control areas over the long-term as opposed to mopping up and going elsewhere.
In other words, we are learning and adapting - our enemy is not static, and they learn as well. They exploited flaws in our tactics, and now we are exploiting theirs. That is the nature of war. It is a back-and-forth process. But it is CRITICAL that our troops realize a majority back home supports their mission, just as it emboldens their mortal foes to read the hand-wringing of the naysayers.
Nailed it! Blackbird.
I'm sure there were plenty of people after WWII who said the Japanese could never overcome their emperor worship to be ruled by an elected government.
Heck, we had a horrible Civil War after 80 years. We're in no position to tell others engaged in relatively low-key sectarian violence that they are incapable of representative government, given what we went through to get to where we are today.
What did we sign up to do in Iraq back in late '02 and early '03?
What hasn't been accomplished that we originally signed up to do?
I hear a radio story about how snipers are ham stung by bureacratic rules.
What we have is the pencil pushers trying to micro manage Iraq like a police enforcement issue but win it like a military campaign.
We need to educate people, "the enemy must die" is the correct mantra.
We need to educate the voters that the enemy is not wearing uniforms as a military tactic.
The paper pushers count on the public being ignorant.
Classic! Consider that most of them have had their temper tantrums about being "pinged", then have the alternate tantrum about being talked about behind their backs. They expect to say their piece unmolested, but when an opinion is stated they don't care to hear, then well, it's the troll hunter ping list to the rescue. Names? Read up/down thread. Blackbird.
No, Thumper comes from my youth and from a few sports played as a young man.
I am a former Trotskyist. From a misspent and wildly debauched youth.
Winston Churchill, the great British statesman is said to have spoken: 'Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains.' Although, it may have been his daughter, Lady Soames, who said that.
However, I do appreciate his: * The day may dawn when fair play, love for one's fellow men, respect for justice and freedom, will enable tormented generations to march forth triumphant from the hideous epoch in which we have to dwell. Meanwhile, never flinch, never weary, never despair.
From the ending of Churchill's last major speech in the House of Commons on (1955-03-01)
Weakness in the face of tyranny and an enemy hellbent on murder and mayhem is a suicide pact that I wish not to be party to.
The exit strategy for this war has been, and always will be victory. The troops know it, those without weak spines know it,.....and the demoncrats know it. The former wish to win, the latter wish only to sabotage.
Here is one from your 5th column press.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1742943/posts
What say you? I'm not sure what an "aviation writer" is, but I'm sure he is infinitely more knowledgable than this guy,
"A lot of us feel like we have our hands tied behind our back," says Cpl. Peter Mattice, of Bravo Company, 1st Battalion, 24th Marine Regiment. "In Fallujah, [insurgents] know our [rules of engagement] - they know when to stop, just before we engage."
Blackbird.
I think many on FR, including myself, are increasingly frustrated at not being able to identify the enemy in Iraq.
Is is the Sunni strongmen, leftover from the Saddam Hussein regime?
Is it the Shite militia's, who dispense daily death to civilians, and to US soldiers alike?
Is it the old Bathists, who have some irrational hope that Hussein will escape the executioner's noose and return in glory as Iraqi President?
I am one of those who strongly favored and continue to approve of the basic policy of cleaning up Iraq.
But I cringe every time a US soldier is killed due to some INTER-IRAQI squabble, which in my scope is not something that threatens America, or the world terror situation in general.
Certainly it would be better if Iraq was a quasi-democracy. But until the Iraqi people, including our FRIENDS, figure out how or decide to end the intramural 'religious' madness, how can we justify putting our brave heroic Marines and soldiers in the middle of almost certain death?
Believe me, I WANT to support this mission 110-percent. But it is getting very confusing as to how we go about that.
One more thing. The one 'mistake' the US made was in NOT executing Saddam Hussein immediately.
In allowing him to live, we have also allowed all the former Bathist-Sunni diehard insurgents to maintain hope that THEY will once again assume power in Iraq.
By keeping Hussein alive, all we did was help promote his aura of power, I believe.
My hope is that his execution will put the final nail in the coffin of at least SOME radicals now fighting in Falluja and other places.
thank you
Some Americans are questioning why we remain in Iraq since Saddam is no longer in power, WMD turned out to be a lie, we suffer huge number of deaths, and we are failing to protect our own borders.
I can see you have trouble with difficult concepts. The poster to whom I was responding was trying to demonstrate that America was far different, that the Arabs are prone to violence as part of government. I simply pointed out that we have some very horrific violence - the Civil War - as part of the forging of this nation.
I dont either.
Are we supposed to simply accept fighting the SAME way we've been fighting these past three years, when it seems the terror-insurgency just keeps getting more resourceful and powerful?
I want to win as much as anyone, but I am having trouble identifying our enemy.
Is it Sunni militia?
Shite militia?
Bathists loyal to Saddam?
Sunni's loyal to Syria?
Much of this mindless violence is due to intramural fighting by people who pose no real desire to join a global terror network.
Many just want revenge against those who killed THEIR peeps, and they will take out a US Marine or soldier if that soldier is in the wrong place at the wrong time.
You are welcome to your opinion. I disagree with you and believe that it is worth the effort to try.
I am generally not someone who believes in "root cause" justification. When I hear that phrase, my hair stands on end. It reeks of liberalism. But these are not normal times.
We had three thousand people killed in a matter of hours on one day, one of them a close aquaintance of mine on American Flight 11. I do remember the people leaping to their deaths.
You think I, and others who feel that this is something worth trying, are naive and wasting your money.
That's fine and is your opinion. If I understand your approach, you think the next time we get attacked, load up the missiles and send them on their way. Or, maybe you think we should just invade and occupy by brute force any country that spawns someone who kills a certain number of American citizens. I presume it is more than double digits.
I think your preferred approach of brute force is naive, and using it makes us no better than the Nazis.
America has not been around that long. You have the conceit that what we are fortunate to have here is durable and long lasting. It took many, many centuries to create conditions for our constitutional republic as it exists. But that time frame is but a blink of the eye in history.
Many of us on FR (and other places) like to paint politicians as not being able to see beyond the end of their nose. To say three years trying to change the situation is too long is short sighted, in my opinion.
And you may be right to say that muslims are not capable of democracy and capitalism. Maybe. However, to me, that is what is known as "The soft bigotry of low expectations". And we have plenty of experience with that point of view in this country.
Thanks kristinn.
My choice would be to put all the PC bullsh!t aside and bomb the enemy the way we did 60 years ago to Dresden and Tokyo.
PC bullsh!t? Codespeak for kill em all. Spoken by paople who don't really understand, why we are there, who we are fighting, how we are fighting, why we are fighting the way we are, and how long it's going to take to win.
It reminds me of something I'd hear a 6 year old say, not something I'd expect an adult to say. It's as wrong as cut-and-run, and shows the same leval of understanding.
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