Posted on 11/24/2006 6:46:08 PM PST by kristinn
I'm reading an astonishing number of comments on Free Republic these days by posters who have joined the ranks of the anti-American left in calling for an immediate withdrawal from Iraq. Some claim to have military experience, some claim to be patriotic Americans and some claim to be smarter than the rest.
These posters are joining the Murtha-Rangel-McDermott treason caucus. Oh, they say they love the troops, but their decision to abandon them in the field speaks otherwise.
Three years ago, the United States led an international coalition to rid the world of one of the worst regimes on the planet. Saddam Hussein was an international terrorist: He financed terrorism, he trained terrorists and he harbored terrorists. He waged war on Iran, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Israel. He waged war on the people of Iraq, including genocidal campaigns against the Kurds in the north and the marsh Arabs in the south.
Saddam successfully subverted the Oil-for-Food program and was wearing down support for continuing the sanctions keeping him in check.
He had numerous contacts with al Qaeda over the years. He tried to assassinate a former U.S. president. He maintained research capabilities to implement nuclear, chemical and biological weapons as soon as the sanctions were lifted. There is evidence that some of these programs would have been operational within a year even with the sanctions in place.
The decision to remove Saddam and his regime as part of the Global War on Terror was correct.
Three-and-a-half years after Iraq and the world were liberated from Saddam and his terrorist regime, there are those on Free Republic who are clamoring to give up, surrender, cut and run, stab the troops in the back, betray the Iraqis, betray our allies in the GWOT, spit on the graves of our fallen heroes and join Cindy Sheehan, Medea Benjamin and Ramsey Clark in bringing about America's defeat in the GWOT.
It's only been three-and-a-half years--only six months since the freely elected government in Iraq was formed. In that time, what has been called a mini-Marshall Plan of construction and reconstruction has come to fruition. The Iraqis have held three national elections, they have held numerous local elections, fourteen out of eighteen Iraq provinces are relatively peaceful and stable.
Six months ago, when the Iraqi government was formed, the experts said the war would be taken to Baghdad because our enemies in the region could not abide the example of a free, democratic society in the Middle East. For once, the experts were right. The battle of Baghdad has been a prolonged Tet Offensive style operation of headline-grabbing attacks intended to sap the morale of Americans and Iraqis alike.
From what I've been reading on Free Republic lately, a lot of Freepers have fallen for the enemy's ploy and are howling like barking moonbats for our immediate withdrawal from Iraq. Some of that talk is couched in talk of 'we're fighting a PC war like Vietnam!' The soldiers I met in Iraq recently told Debra Argel Bastian to pass on a message to the Vietnam vets criticizing the war: With all due respect to your service, this is not Vietnam. It is not being fought like Vietnam. Please let us finish our mission.
But our enemy is playing the Vietnam ploy to great benefit. They know they can count on the American and world media to broadcast their propaganda. They work with leftist Americans to sabotage the war effort at home. They know these leftist Americans have allies in the Democratic party. They know they do not need a military victory--only political and psychological victories are needed to defeat America.
You guys are playing right in to their hands. Congratulations.
There are those who argue that murder and dictatorship is the mindset of the Middle East and that will not be changed by our actions. Funny how those who smugly denigrate the Arab peoples' capacity for freedom forget the wholesale slaughter of millions of Westerners by Westerners at the hands of Western dictatorships just a few generations past.
I hear complaints that the Iraqis aren't standing up. Yet, to use one common example, when police recruits are slaughtered in bombings, Iraqis line up the next day at the same recruiting center. The insurgency is small in number, but they are able to do enough damage on a daily basis to stretch out the time it will take to secure the whole of Iraq.
At this time of our testing, the American people are starting to go wobbly. Sadly, many Freepers are too. Our troops and their Commander-in-Chief are not, thank God. It's only been three-and-a-half years. The progress made has been phenomonal. Throw in the towel now, and you'll just have the terrorists follow us home. Everyone knows that, including you. I'm not willing to pay that price, not now, not ever, but you are.
Let me close by offering similar sentiments recently offered by two men 'in the know' on the situation in Iraq who are not giving up. First, Kurdish Regional Government Prime Minister Barzani: "When I was in the United States recently and read the negative news in the Washington Post, New York Times and in the network TV broadcasts, I even wondered if things had gotten so bad since I had left that I shouldn't return."
Next, Gen. Abizaid: "When I come to Washington, I feel despair. When I'm in Iraq with my commanders, when I talk to our soldiers, when I talk to the Iraqi leadership, they are not despairing."
I should add that while Jesus does mention that he comes with a sword and not to bring peace, that best interpretation of that passage is that Christianity is the most subversive message in human history. Its message will bring discord and strife. Being the only Christian in a family of atheists, I know this personally.
--as crummy as Turkey may be, it is by far the most successful of all Muslim democracies. The best you can aspire to.--
Does Indonesia not count? There is as much ethnic diversity and strife in that part of the world as in the mideast. The Aceh separatists or the fanatics on Sulawesi are (pound for pound) just as violent as any in Turkey or as the PKK. Yet the country is in the transitional state between military dictatorship and something vaguely approaching a representative republic. Highly corrupt, but so are 95% of the nation-states on Earth.
As for the present, the only reasonable alternative to cutting and running may be the installation of a Shah-like dictator in Iraq. So be it, as long as it is a "smart Shah" that won't have secret police firing into crowds of protesters.
The key is keeping enough strings attached to cause a "soft landing" a decade or two in the future, and not to turn the place over to Sadrists, in the asinine fashion of a Jimmy Carter. That is also the situation confronting the West in Egypt at this time.
--To expect Iraq to do as "well: as Turkey is foolish.--
No sane person on this thread has suggested that. Those appellatives should be reserved for those who deserve them, i.e. the neobuchananite isolationists who offer no positive alternative. That's the whole premise of this thread.
That's kind of a chickensh*t question, Sergeant.
Also for the record, here are your words to me, in response to saying that Muslims (by virtue of being Muslim) are incapable of democracy:
You claim to be a Christian, yet deny the power of the Almighty God to change hearts. In addition, you look down on others, created in God's image, as being inferior to yourself, and incapable of being free, or even desiring it. You revealed a lot about yourself in those five words, Jib, and none of it is good.See post 1778 (my response).
I will never understand why anyone would vote for that person. Guess they are loose cannons.
Does Indonesia not count?
I would say not, because Indonesia just had its first real Presidential election. History is littered with countries that had one election. Having more than one is the hard part.
As for the present, the only reasonable alternative to cutting and running may be the installation of a Shah-like dictator in Iraq. So be it, as long as it is a "smart Shah" that won't have secret police firing into crowds of protesters. I suspect you may be correct. We could also try partitioning. In hindsight we should have simply kept Saddam.
--To expect Iraq to do as "well: as Turkey is foolish.-- No sane person on this thread has suggested that. Those appellatives should be reserved for those who deserve them, i.e. the neobuchananite isolationists who offer no positive alternative. That's the whole premise of this thread.
I'm not a Buchanon fan. I think he is racist and anti-semitic. I think he puts America ahead of Christianity. I think his policies are incompatible with the principle of loving your neighbor as yourself. But I agree that all of the alternatives in Iraq are at best long shots. We cannot do anything until we change the hearts of people in Iraq. And soldiers simply cannot do that. Missionaries can, but soldiers cannot.
Spending more time in Iraq is not worth losing more pro-life senators.
I've read all your posts, Jib, and repeat.....you have confused your concept of God and those He has created in HIS image with your personal political opinions.
Stop doing that.
Might I suggest that you spend less time posting on FR, and more time reading? The more you educate yourself about conservatism, the less you will post the ignorant tripe that you've been spewing on this thread.
You have revealed that about yourself as well, Jib.
(Arabs are Semites. That includes Iraqis whom you deign inferior to yourself).
How about Pat Buchanan or David Duke. Neocon is codeword for Jew. According to them we're in the Middle East because of Israel. We're doing her bidding. Forget about all the oil there, and that the entire West, who we've committed via treaty to defend, relies on that oil.
When I was at the Pentagon, during Desert Shield, they had a big demonstration by all the lefty, rabid neo and paleo hippies. One looked right at me and said, "Do you want to die for oil?!" I replied right back, "Hell no, but I'll KILL for oil!" Shut his raggety a$$ up.
Huh??? You want us defeated to keep your pro-life Senators??
You, sir, need a straight jacket and padded walls.
Wrong. I've said that "Muslims are not capable of democracy." I have not said that "Iraqis are inferior." I am not racist and I am not anti-semitic. But I am bigoted when it comes to religion. Jesus is the only way to God, and Islam is a violent religion.
Muslims are capable of democracy, and the military phase of Iraq is over (if it is not over, then lets send in the B-52s and fight this war properly).
Doh! I meant to say "Muslims are *not* capable of democracy."
Yes..........the neocon epithet could be coming from a racist right wing source.
But this fellow says that anyone who thinks Iraq can become a democracy is a 'neo-con.' It's either racist right or racist left..........not that it matters much, since they have been holding hands regarding Iraq for quite some time.
I don't know which side is dirtier, but the idea that people, because they have been born in a certain part of the world are innately inferior to us is disgusting and offensive to me.
I could say, "Boy, you are truly a Masshole. Massachusetts finest, just like Barney, Ted and John F'n." But I won't, as that would be insulting. Almost as insulting as saying, "Muslims are not capable of democracy." Or "Heck, you won't even let us turn mosques and "hospitals" (read: insurgent bases) to rubble from the air."
May I ask how long you were in the Air Force, since you seem to have this fixation with bombing people?
Japan was a complete theocratic, emperor-worshipping, militaristic, samuari-sword head-chopping society. We won against them and now they are, thank the Lord, a democracy. You have absolutely no credentials to make the statement that the muslims can never have democracy. Maybe, just maybe, they won't make a democracy in Iraq. But it's sure as all get out not going to happen if we leave them now.
Correction true FReepers don't cut and run from Terrorists...
You really like to add oil on the fire, eh?
Maybe it's time to ride the trolley bus home.
We don't have inbreeding cut-throat tribes like those in the middle east:
http://www.bmj.com:80/cgi/content/short/333/7573/831?etoc
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