Does Indonesia not count?
I would say not, because Indonesia just had its first real Presidential election. History is littered with countries that had one election. Having more than one is the hard part.
As for the present, the only reasonable alternative to cutting and running may be the installation of a Shah-like dictator in Iraq. So be it, as long as it is a "smart Shah" that won't have secret police firing into crowds of protesters. I suspect you may be correct. We could also try partitioning. In hindsight we should have simply kept Saddam.
--To expect Iraq to do as "well: as Turkey is foolish.-- No sane person on this thread has suggested that. Those appellatives should be reserved for those who deserve them, i.e. the neobuchananite isolationists who offer no positive alternative. That's the whole premise of this thread.
I'm not a Buchanon fan. I think he is racist and anti-semitic. I think he puts America ahead of Christianity. I think his policies are incompatible with the principle of loving your neighbor as yourself. But I agree that all of the alternatives in Iraq are at best long shots. We cannot do anything until we change the hearts of people in Iraq. And soldiers simply cannot do that. Missionaries can, but soldiers cannot.
Spending more time in Iraq is not worth losing more pro-life senators.
You have revealed that about yourself as well, Jib.
(Arabs are Semites. That includes Iraqis whom you deign inferior to yourself).
Huh??? You want us defeated to keep your pro-life Senators??
You, sir, need a straight jacket and padded walls.
I used to feel we might actually accomplish this after the over-throw of Sadam. Since, I've learned more about their religion, I no longer feel that way.
There are two ways to live life: with self-control(internal, lends itself to individual liberty) and social-control (external, tends toward state control of all actions, favorable amongst tyrannists).
Given the 'rules' that muslims must live by (according to their Koran) and the zeal with which they accept such, there is little possibility our system of government will ever succeed in their countries.
'East is east, west is west, and never the 'twain shall meet' seems very appropriate today. I would kill the first Imam that ordered me to stone my sister to death for being a victim of rape.
Perhaps the biggest block toward an understanding lies in their belief that they are superior to us, given their strict social order versus our 'loose' order-something our "accept our position or get banned", Freeper folks might want to re-think.
Given that the WOT and the War In Iraq have little in common (besides the fact the opponent refuses to wear a uniform), we musn't resort to a 'battlefield' strategy, but rather, one of obliteration of as many 'hostiles', followed by troop clean-up of whatever remains. IOW, our guys shouldn't be spearheading this event, they should be mererly mopping up what's left, and that could have been completed two years ago.
'You kill my people, I kill your people harder."
--Spending more time in Iraq is not worth losing more pro-life senators.--
Agreed. Nothing is worth that kind of loss. Anything is acceptable to keep the Hilldebeast out of the WH.
Thank you for the excellent posts as well. As Lincoln said, "a horse divided against itself cannot stand" [or was it house? ;-) ] Long live FR.
Saddam was not only paying money to Pali suicide bombers, but helping al Qaeda and murdering his own people.
If that weren't enough for him to be taken down, he broke the treaty he signed, after the Gulf War. Do you not realize what THAT means?
ONCE ONE OF THE PARTIES BREAKS THE PARTICULARS OF A PEACE TREATY, THEN THE PARTOES INVOLVED, ARE AT WAR AGAIN!
You want to be a missionary? Fine...go over to Iraq and preach! Don't sit there, in your safe and comfortable abode and preach on FR!