Forget democracy and bring home troops, Bush will hear

UK Telegraph ^ | Nov. 12, 2006 | Philip Sherwell

[FairOpinion]

A commission of experts appointed by President George W Bush will advise him to abandon his dream of cementing a new democratic system in Iraq and instead tackle the security crisis so that the withdrawal of American troops can begin.

The advice from the Iraq Study Group, a high-level bipartisan panel headed by James Baker, the former Republican secretary of state, will sideline the so-called Bush doctrine of spreading democracy in the Middle East. Mr Bush will meet the panel tomorrow and Tony Blair is expected to offer his views via a video-conference call on Tuesday.

Mr Gates is a member of the Iraq Study Group and has been a strong critic of his predecessor's handling of policy in Iraq and the use of pre-war intelligence. He will provide the White House with the political cover for changes that would have been unthinkable a few months ago.

The Baker panel, which has been charged with looking at all options for Iraq, is expected to recommend a phased US troop withdrawal, timed to accord with deadlines for Iraqi forces' taking responsibility for specific security zones.

[speekinout]

This makes me ill.

[leadpenny]

All they need is for us to have the will to back them in the fight.

Back them with what? simple facts?

[The Bronze Titan]

-"what fool would ever trust the USA again ?" WHY NOT! DAMN IT, we took the full brunt of feeing these people. NOW THEY HAVE to defend that freedom, NOT US!

[ohioWfan]

Mr. President please resurrect the man that we came to trust in you after 911.

He hasn't gone anywhere, swheats.

[proud_yank]

I was speaking rhetorically with that post, though I think it is something that people need to stop and think about.

I don't think that the problem is as much with Pres. Bush, as it is with much of the population believing this 'Vietnam Quagmire' garbage. That is where the problem starts, and if continued where the war will ultimately be lost. The situation in Iraq has existed for years since the first Gulf War, and it will not be resolved quickly.

But mark it down, we will not cut and run, no time tables will be set, no retreat with defeat.

Given House and Senate votes over the past year, which were overwhelmingly against a 'time table' or a pullout, I am optimistic about this.

A point that I often make, and I think more people should, is that major American cities (read: generally governed by liberal Dems, w/ lots of gun control laws) have significantly higher murder rates than troop casualty rates in Iraq. I think that is the way this needs to be put into perspective.

The impatience of the american public is disheartening and the message that was sent to the terrorists is pretty frightening. We can thank a media that colludes with the dnc for that, and the inability of the President to get the message out. He needs to use the bully pulpit a LOT more and I certainly hope he does.......

Agree 100%. To think that Sept 11 was an isolated incident is patently absurd, and to think that the root of it was 'they hate us because we try to rule them and they'd stop if we left them alone' is even worse.

I think that President Bush needs to come out publicly a LOT more regarding the issues at hand, what has been accomplished and found in Iraq (WMD and nuclear ambitions), and challenges that lay ahead. Leaving that job to the media is suicidal politically. However, I am not holding my breath.

I forget who said it, but the statement I wish there were more conservative men who were as outspoken as conservative women sums my thoughts nicely!

[brydic1]

It is amazing that conservatives ever signed on to converting this war into a nation building affair. Had we not learned in Haiti, Bosnia, Somalia, Kosovo that this does not work. If a people have had no experience with democracy and are not conditioned to accept it, we simply cannot impose it on them. How in the world did we get to this point where One World Idealism was allowed to overrule common sense. The fact that the nation we are trying to build is in turmoi with people killing one another and our servicemen who for the most part are merely trying to help them with building hospitals, schools, power plants and oil pipelines. We should have declared this war over as soon as we defeated Saddam and his army. Let these stone age people go back to their stone age.

[PatrickF4]

The will of the nation - Dems, armchair generals, and keyboard warriors... not the will of the troops.

[leadpenny]

Welcome to FR but I have no idea what you're saying.

[FairOpinion]

We are in Iraq not just to defend the Iraqis, but to defend OUR OWN SECURITY. If we withdraw too early, the terrorists will take over Iraq and will institute a Taliban or Iran like terrorist state, from which to influence the Middle East and perpetrate terror attacks against us.

THEN we will see not 3000 casualties in Iraq, but 300,000 civilian casualties in the US, or more, when the terrorists will attack us with WMD.

[proud_yank]

The point I am making there is simply a way to combat the BS spouted every single day in the press. I think it is an excellent way to combat that sort of nonsense, and is a good way to put it into a perspective that people can give thought to.

[RetiredArmy]

10-4

[MrLee]

To be a military power you must be feared. The US is not feared. Islam is feared......
It doesn't have to be this way.

[proud_yank]

If this is what Bin Laden said after Somalia, just think what the terrorists will say, if we withdraw from Iraq before the job is done.

Exactly. Sept 11 will pale in comparison to the terrorist attacks that follow an Iraq pullout.

[BW2221]

Just as we didn't understand the Viet Cong, we didn't understand the Muslim mentality. These people are truly fanatical and mired in a religion that's mired in the Dark Ages. It's a religion that espouses violence and seems incompatible with democracy.

Soon after we leave, any possibility of democracy will likely be over.

[The Bronze Titan]

Laverne,

"I guess its a matter of semantics, our guys on patrol is not a strategic matter but a tactical one."

No it isn't. Think about it.

Are our troops there to defend them from 'foreign' invadors? ...NO

If that was their role, I would have no quarrel with that.

NO. Our troops are there to...? POLICE their own country. You can't shake away from that fact.

What I say, is, it's time for them to do their OWN POLICING!

For goodness sake, it's CAR BOMBS and IEDs that are the weapons involved. Not MISSILES or TANKS! Why can't (or wont) they defend themselves AGAINST THAT????

I say, give the good guys ALL THE ARMS THEY NEED, and LET THEM TAKE CARE OF THE BAD GUYS ANYWAY THEY WANT, and let us GET OUR TROOPS OUT of harms way.

[KSCITYBOY]

"If a nation of 300 million cannot handle 3000 casulties over a the course of 3 years it isn't a serious military power."

We are done if we face another world war.

[Plains Drifter]

Amen. I agree with this guy 1000%!!!!! Let all the Bastards kill each other with arms made in America!

[leadpenny]

We should have declared this war over as soon as we defeated Saddam and his army.

What you said.

[Txsleuth]

I turned my radio to the Hugh Hewitt show last night...but he had Jeb Babbin subbing for him...

I was so disgusted by what he was saying...and I used to think he was "smart"..

All he kept saying was that NOW President Bush will have to drop his stupid plan to democratize Iraq or anywhere else in the Middle East..and just bring the troops home!!!

He also kept taking swipes at the "neo-cons"..

I have NO idea what he thinks would happen if we followed his advice...and why he thinks it is NOT a good thing to have at least a semi-democratic ALLY nation between Iran and Syria...

All I know is...I was very disappointed...and he is just one of many, many people I have heard/seen that seem to have "wimped out"....and make no mention of the chaos that would follow, if the POTUS took their advice.

[swheats]

It would appear that the dems and MSM want to create a permanent wedge between him and those support him.