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Forget democracy and bring home troops, Bush will hear
UK Telegraph ^ | Nov. 12, 2006 | Philip Sherwell

Posted on 11/11/2006 5:38:22 PM PST by FairOpinion

A commission of experts appointed by President George W Bush will advise him to abandon his dream of cementing a new democratic system in Iraq and instead tackle the security crisis so that the withdrawal of American troops can begin.

The advice from the Iraq Study Group, a high-level bipartisan panel headed by James Baker, the former Republican secretary of state, will sideline the so-called Bush doctrine of spreading democracy in the Middle East. Mr Bush will meet the panel tomorrow and Tony Blair is expected to offer his views via a video-conference call on Tuesday.

Mr Gates is a member of the Iraq Study Group and has been a strong critic of his predecessor's handling of policy in Iraq and the use of pre-war intelligence. He will provide the White House with the political cover for changes that would have been unthinkable a few months ago.

The Baker panel, which has been charged with looking at all options for Iraq, is expected to recommend a phased US troop withdrawal, timed to accord with deadlines for Iraqi forces' taking responsibility for specific security zones.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: baker; cutandrun; gwot; iraq; surrender; terrorism; wot
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To: AmeriBrit

They need to learn from the Romanians.


Romania Vows Not to 'Abandon' Iraq

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1737155/posts


Romania has no intentions of withdrawing its troops from the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq, President Traian Basescu said Saturday, vowing to stay "because it's a dishonor to leave your allies."

In an interview with The Associated Press, Basescu said he empathized with mounting calls to withdraw the country's 608 non-combat personnel in Iraq, including impassioned pleas from the families of those serving.

But "Romania's honor is greater than its feelings," he said.


261 posted on 11/11/2006 10:43:17 PM PST by FairOpinion (Don't give up! Start working on 2008 GOP win strategy NOW.)
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To: FairOpinion

Okay, I agree that we did not find WMD's but hell the UN gave Sadamm over 12 years to discard them. But my question is we are there what in the hell is wrong trying to give a country of tyranny democracy? It's so simple why are our parties fighting about this and that?
I must be friggen retarded. Oh excuse me according to public schools I am exceptional. I would have hated seeing today's society with all of the news footage and blogs of WWII we would all be speaking German. Sorry I am on a rant I just do not see what is wrong with the US and our Allies giving a dictatorship a chance to control their country...


262 posted on 11/11/2006 10:44:28 PM PST by lndrvr1972
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To: The Bronze Titan
"No U.S. troops ANYWHERE where their is a civil war going on."

A slight edit should fix this:

No U.S. troops ANYWHERE where their is a civil war going on except on the borders of the USA.

The world sez we are war mongers and thugs, then we should leave and take care of our own. Our media as well as the foreign press undermine our troops at every turn. They spill their blood on foreign shores and then are spit on and called murderers and criminals.

Why should we risk these brave men and women's lives when we have our own problems at home.

Bring 'em home. All of them, and now.

263 posted on 11/11/2006 10:45:58 PM PST by Mad Dawgg ("`Eddies,' said Ford, `in the space-time continuum.' `Ah,' nodded Arthur, `is he? Is he?'")
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To: Pelayo
This is exactly what I've been trying to say for some time.

You and I are not alone. Others are with us and our numbers increase daily. Either people will accept the truth or deny themselves. Given time most people will accept truth.
264 posted on 11/11/2006 10:47:54 PM PST by backtothestreets
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To: TomasUSMC
"Hitler and Mussolini gained power within democracies. If democracy alone were the answer, some 50 or 60 million people would not have perished during WWII.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

worth repeating"


An invitation to repeat myself if ever there was one. Thanks! ;)

Hitler and Mussolini gained power within democracies. If democracy alone were the answer, some 50 or 60 million people would not have perished during WWII.
265 posted on 11/11/2006 10:52:10 PM PST by backtothestreets
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To: FairOpinion

**Forget democracy and bring home troops, Bush will hear **

It's Pelosi's fault, right? No I mean left. LOL!


266 posted on 11/11/2006 10:56:22 PM PST by Salvation (With God all things are possible.;)
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To: Kozak
If a nation of 300 million cannot handle 3000 casulties over a the course of 3 years it isn't a serious military power.

There have been 2288 KIA's in 3 years 8 months....however, my friend, your point is well taken and EXACTLY RIGHT!!

267 posted on 11/11/2006 11:01:22 PM PST by PISANO
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To: FairOpinion
Sadly the meaning of honour, loyalty and a strong backbone are becoming a thing of the past. The socialists who were at one time democrats have no shame. They're a disgusting breed, and phonies who I'm sure many went to Veteran's Memorial Ceremonies today faking compassion for the fallen heroes of past wars.

I live in fear of what's going to happen to the U.K. soon when Tony Blair steps down as I still have so many of my immediate family there.
268 posted on 11/11/2006 11:10:28 PM PST by AmeriBrit (Soros and Clinton's for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington = SCREW.)
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To: AmeriBrit
"I'm amazed at how many have tunnel vision and can think of nothing else but bring the troops home."

I'd like to believe the whole nation had such tunnel vision. What divides the nation are the terms under which the troops are brought home.

I'm one of those people at odds with President Bush over his conduct of the war. If my criticism is regarded as unpatriotic or lacking support for our troops, I point to the seemingly never ending numbers of generals that have retired in disgust and now retired are voicing their open displeasure over the inefficiencies of the Bush/Rumsfeld policies.

I'm not in favor of withdrawing our troops in the face of complete chaos. It is well past time the Iraqi army do the heavy lifting. More often than not we are told they are still being trained.

I'd personally like to see our military moved to secure the parameter of Iraq to fully secure the borders. Then the Iraqi army could assemble in one region before heading forward to clear the Iraqi landscape of their enemies. We would supply air support, supplies and equipment. We would also prohibit all news journalists from the areas. Let Iraqis free themselves from their enemies. They will either kill or capture their enemies, or drive them to the borders where or troops will either kill or capture them.

It's time to make Iraq mature.
269 posted on 11/11/2006 11:20:02 PM PST by backtothestreets
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To: leadpenny
"No one has forgotten 9-11 either. The difference is that FDR went to war with the country mobilized. W didn't."

W took a completely opposite tact and demobilized the nation. Heaven knows the nation was mobilized and awaiting word on how best to assist. The instruction given was ... go shopping!
270 posted on 11/11/2006 11:28:13 PM PST by backtothestreets
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To: AmeriBrit

I hope that in the UK even liberals have more sense and understand the stakes at the war on terror -- although clearly France, Spain and Italy doesn't understand. Once leftists took over in Spain and Italy, the first thing they did was to pull out their troops from Iraq and abandon the War on Terror.


271 posted on 11/11/2006 11:37:12 PM PST by FairOpinion (Don't give up! Start working on 2008 GOP win strategy NOW.)
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To: backtothestreets
Those so called Generals you mention that supposedly retired in disgust were practically all promoted to their ranks under clinton and are all clinton loyalists. The military is better off without them.

The Iraqi people's lives are going through a 180° compared to what they've lived through previously under Saddam Hussein. It's just starting to take it's first baby steps and cannot be expected to go it alone yet. They still need all of the help and guidance we can muster if they are to survive as a free nation.

On day one, President Bush told the nation this would be a long ugly war but so many have conveniently forgotten that speech.

Every day someone pipes up and insists we should have just gone in and blanketed Iraq with bombs forgetting or are uneducated to the fact it's not the Iraqi people we are at war with and never was, it's against the terrorists who infiltrated Iraq from other countries and also the power hungry madman Saddam Hussein.
272 posted on 11/11/2006 11:51:48 PM PST by AmeriBrit (Soros and Clinton's for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington = SCREW.)
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To: The Bronze Titan

I don't understand this patrol business either. In a country of 25 million people, they can't find enough guys to patrol their own streets? I find this very hard to believe.


273 posted on 11/12/2006 12:08:19 AM PST by cydcharisse
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To: AmeriBrit
Those so called Generals you mention that supposedly retired in disgust were practically all promoted to their ranks under clinton and are all clinton loyalists. The military is better off without them.

You would not have gotten any of the great Generals such as Patton, McArthur, Ike, etc to except such restrictive conditions of war. They knew better. They would have resigned their commissioned till the civilian leadership wised up to reality of war. But then again their civilian leaders weren't P.C. dolts that had been taught by Marxist educators in our post WW2 universities either. That came immediately after WW2 and ruined us in Korea, Nam. and Gulf War One. Kinder Gentler War Limiting Civilian Causalities what an insane policy. We've been there done that what three times now? So you tell me who won those wars?

The Iraqi people's lives are going through a 180° compared to what they've lived through previously under Saddam Hussein. It's just starting to take it's first baby steps and cannot be expected to go it alone yet. They still need all of the help and guidance we can muster if they are to survive as a free nation.

They must purchase their own freedom themselves otherwise it will mean nothing to them. The men who fought for this nations freedom nearly froze to death at Valley Forge and only one nation {yet to be reborn before the world again} helped and saw us through. They were the sons of Israel. They funded Washington at the winter Valley Forge when our nation was broke and turned that war to a win.

On day one, President Bush told the nation this would be a long ugly war but so many have conveniently forgotten that speech.

The man has turned it from being a war to a mandate on nation building in a nation where three tribes hate each others guts and have done so for thousands of years. Are they gonna stop because he's George Bush? War is not for building a nation war is PUNISHING a nation AND It's PEOPLE so they don't go there again. Ask Japan and Germany.

Every day someone pipes up and insists we should have just gone in and blanketed Iraq with bombs forgetting or are uneducated to the fact it's not the Iraqi people we are at war with and never was, it's against the terrorists who infiltrated Iraq from other countries and also the power hungry madman Saddam Hussein.

Uh huh yea right. That is Cultural Marxism at it's best. It's pure PC dribble. The Germans weren't the enemy either right? How about the Japanese of whom we nuked two major cities? They weren't the enemy either now were they? Good grief if this nation gets in a World War we are done for. The P.C. shills will be screaming and yelling save the poor innocents while ours are being slaughtered. Wanna call me cut and run? Look in the mirror. I got news for you. Read up on war. Read up on our own Civil War and you show me where we spared even our own brothers we fought against.

With the P.C. Kinder Gentler War PC crap we will forever be the laughing stock of the M.E. terrorist as they see it as weakness. North Korea exploited it, North Vietnam exploited it, Saddam did several times and the man still lives because Bush wanted to hold civics classes in Iraq. Only a mad man would not be angry at our policy in Iraq. How much more PC do you want our leader and Generals to be then?

War is hell. It is hell to the soldiers it is hell to the ones they kill. It is a punish by one nation upon the people of another. It has been such ever since. The Bible even says this is what war is. Look at the commands GOD gave Joshua. Kinder and Gentler war for the enemy? I don't think so. It knows no innocents. Until our leaders can come to terms with this reality and absolute concept war demands for victory they need to think long and hard before asking any United States Service Member to go there again.

274 posted on 11/12/2006 12:54:07 AM PST by cva66snipe (If it was wrong for Clinton why do some support it for Bush? Party over nation destroys the nation.)
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To: FairOpinion

"Forget democracy and bring home troops, Bush will hear "

I'm glad George Washington is asleep and can't hear this.


275 posted on 11/12/2006 4:26:51 AM PST by RoadTest ( He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. -Rev. 3:6)
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To: The Bronze Titan
No more this "democracy nation-building" utopia crap.

AMEN! Blackbird.

276 posted on 11/12/2006 5:15:29 AM PST by BlackbirdSST (Stay out of the Bushes, unless you're RINO hunting!)
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To: brydic1
If Islam is incompatible with democracy and freedom, and I believe it is, what in the blazes are we doing there. There is no way to destroy the religion of Islam in Iraq so we should destroy as many of our enemies as possible, render that nation militarily powerless in the future and leave the hellhole. Maybe a more callous but effective tactic would be arming both the Shiites and Sunnis to the hilt and let them proceed with liquidating each other. This endeavor in Iraq is not worth one more american life.

The Iraq war was lost on November 7th. The scenarios for winning it all require more resources and a lot more time. The odds of a Democratic congress providing either are slim to none. The election results reflect the loss of faith of the public. Even among conservatives the belief that the current strategy of democratizing Iraq can work is dwindling.

The plan to bring freedom to Iraq and change their culture to eliminate a breeding ground for terrorists was always a long shot. The gloomy realists were right. There's a limit to how far you can push a people culturally in one lifetime.
277 posted on 11/12/2006 5:21:38 AM PST by MaxFlint
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To: USMA '71; brydic1
South Korea, West and now East Germany, and Japan to name a few that most people have heard of. Please don't let the facts get in the way of stating your faulty premise.

Really. Now name one that wasn't totally decimated, either on the battlefield or via economic collapse (Cold War). Defeat was the lost objective here. Blackbird.

278 posted on 11/12/2006 5:32:30 AM PST by BlackbirdSST (Stay out of the Bushes, unless you're RINO hunting!)
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To: EDINVA
ever hear of Japan?

Know the difference between Japan and Iraq? Decimation. Not this time though, we need to Nation Build. A losing strategy right out of the gate. Blackbird.

279 posted on 11/12/2006 5:35:21 AM PST by BlackbirdSST (Stay out of the Bushes, unless you're RINO hunting!)
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To: brydic1
you are crazy.

We must recognize reality.

I think you just did! Blackbird.

280 posted on 11/12/2006 5:42:32 AM PST by BlackbirdSST (Stay out of the Bushes, unless you're RINO hunting!)
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